Will Melbourne and Nth Melb be around in 10 years time ?

[Dominator_7]

First of all, let me say that this isnt a smart a*** thread and I don't want any Melbourne clubs to fold or re locate..
i saw the absolute heartbreak Fitzroy fans went through all those years ago and never want to have to see that kind of stuff again...

However, the reality of AFL these days suggest that the way things are going for both Melbourne and Nth Melbourne (particularly the Demons) at the momnt, both these clubs will struggle to be viable in the next 10-20 years.
Melbourne's long standing troubles are well documented, but could you imagin where North would be (financially and membership wise) if they were'nt making the finals regularly ?

Can something be done or are both these clubs doomed to failiure... What do you guys think ?

 

[Dylz48]

yes

will people keep making threads about them relocating YES

 

[malodeez]

another "will melbourne survive" thread. original and very boring.
yes we will survive and no we wont need to tank to buy players to build our team

 

[Zvim]

Yes.

There is no threat to Melbourne clubs whilst broadcasters have such a high demand for Melbourne games. By the time the NSW/QLD market matures you will probably find half the Melbourne sides will be based in regional Victorian areas, like North probably in Ballarat as the population growth in Melbourne pushes out to those regional centers.

 

[jayjones1]

they are not going anywhere afl will just bail them out again

 

[The Fireman]

Hope so.

 

[Zvim]

they are not going anywhere afl will just bail them out again

We don't want to be bailed out, we just want to play at a stadium where we get the benefit of pulling a crowd. We averaged 40k for our home games in Melbourne and got a total of $600k. Geelong make $750k on ONE game at Skilled off 25k.

There is something very wrong going on and we are stuck in this position because the AFL have got themselves into long-term contracts with TD and MCC guaranteeing games and attendances. They "help" to compensate for the inequality but it is just blowing out and the AFL can't afford to compensate for the level of profiteering that is running out of control so they are starting to fight back against the stadiums.

If we got as much as the Swans get for their home games (we had similar level of attendances) then we would have made $3-4m profit after you removed the assistance we normally get.

 

[D Mitchell]

In 10 years time, the current 10 - 15 year olds will make up a substantial number of football devotees. Australia wins a world cup, the media get on the soccer band wagons, blokes like Zieball and Yarran see they can pull 10 times more playing soccer in Europe and Asia, national corporations jump in the band wagon, our current 10 - 15 year olds find soccer more sexy as they go through puberty, corporations prefer the exposure of sponsoring in a town with 2 teams per capitol city to 9. Who can be sure any club will be around in 2019 ?

 

[MightyHawks]

We don't want to be bailed out, we just want to play at a stadium where we get the benefit of pulling a crowd. We averaged 40k for our home games in Melbourne and got a total of $600k. Geelong make $750k on ONE game at Skilled off 25k.

There is something very wrong going on and we are stuck in this position because the AFL have got themselves into long-term contracts with TD and MCC guaranteeing games and attendances. They "help" to compensate for the inequality but it is just blowing out and the AFL can't afford to compensate for the level of profiteering that is running out of control so they are starting to fight back against the stadiums.

Interesting issue this one...
On your figures the cats are making $30 per person. Nearly the entire crowd is paying for reserved seats. The Cats also have the signage at the ground.
Now whenever I see a North game at the Docklands most of the seats on the city side of level 2 are empty. These cost $40 each. If you want your team to make more $$$ from a game then why not make sure you are sitting in more expensive seats?

 

[Clean Heels]

In 10 yrs time, Melbourne will be fairing alot better than the majority
of sides on - and off the field, these threads are warranted though and
I dont mind them, because the reality is there that both clubs and
especially Melbourne, need to look at other ways and options to survive
financially and as a club..

Melbourne as a city is going ahead, the recession hasnt stunted this
all that much, and with the AFL trying to sell the game overseas, it
wouldnt look good that the oldest club and the city of the state
of football folds as a club, I personally dont think its ever going to
happen - but I do agree that as a football club, Melbourne need to
lift off field, not having a major sponsor at this time of the yr, isnt
good enough..

But in 10 years to come, ill drag this thread up and have a laugh.

 

[Zvim]

Interesting issue this one...
On your figures the cats are making $30 per person. Nearly the entire crowd is paying for reserved seats. The Cats also have the signage at the ground.
Now whenever I see a North game at the Docklands most of the seats on the city side of level 2 are empty. These cost $40 each. If you want your team to make more $$$ from a game then why not make sure you are sitting in more expensive seats?

Most of the seating at Skilled is reserved seating. I have a social club membership at North which was $315 i think, which is a bit more than the standard Geelong membership + cheapest reserve seat option.

While we saw a 40% or so membership growth last year we also saw a 85% increase in membership revenue so a lot of people upgraded from standard memberships to premium memberships, however, TD and AFL compete against us for premium memberships, they don't at Skilled/interstate.

A big problem is that TD/MCC take a massive chunk of the profitability, break even at TD is 30,000. You make nothing on 30,000. TD have Medallion Club and Access One that accounts for about 5,000 to 10,000 I would imagine given how much room is reserved for them. We get nothing from those memberships. So we really only have a maximum of about 10-15k to make any money from, even when you sell-out the game. Our game against Collingwood was effectively sold out but we would be lucky to make $100k or so from the game.

As to making more money off less people, I think what was meant to be attractive about a bigger stadium is that you don't need to charge so much per person because the size would make up for it. Had TD been owned by the AFL and they only took a reasonable portion + overhead from the game then clubs would be able to make $1m+ from a sold out TD game not having to over-charge everyone. TD donated $1m from the gate receipts from the Essendon vs Richmond game, which included $350k from the AFL but that was based on a crowd of 35k.

This is just not us... every melbourne club is affected, some more than others but Collingwood doesn't come remotely close to making what the Cats do and they draw massive crowds, there is just too much profiteering going on. These stadiums would be dead without footy, they are not looking at the big picture.

 

[Kram]

The Melbourne Kangaoos?

Norths at least seem to be having a go and moving forward, Melbourne are a bit of a worry.

 

[arkie]

Yes, both of these teams will be around in 10 years.

 

[RUNVS]

I would expect that atleast 1 of them will have relocated to Tasmania by 2019.

 

[malodeez]

The Melbourne Kangaoos?

Norths at least seem to be having a go and moving forward, Melbourne are a bit of a worry.

that is probably the most bullshit quote anyone has ever said here, if you'd live in melbourne then u would know what the hell the club is trying to do

 

[Mario the Lothario]

5 stars.

There's just not enough threads on this subject.

(It's about time North supporters petitioned the admin over this continuous crap.)

 

[stickman11]

I would expect that atleast 1 of them will have relocated to Tasmania by 2019.

And end up like the swans, an insignificant handbag team that can't draw a crowd to a home final. That should be more of a concern for the AFL.

Mind you, Carlton had to get bailed out by a billionaire otherwise we be writting a remember carlton thread.

 

[Dan26]

The harsh reality is that neither club really should have a place in a competition that should be aspiring to be to Australia what the NFL is to America. A league where all clubs are strong, viable, and well supported.

If you were starting the AFL from scratch you wouldn't have 10 teams in Victoria would you?

Melbourne have a small supporter base, no recent success, an ageing supporter base with no young fans, and are regarded as having one of the less passionate supporter groups. If it wasn't for them being called "Melbourne" would they still be around now?

North are similar, but they have had recent on-field success. The problem is they have only started growing their supporter base from 1974 (when they first started to become successful), so they started 77 years after Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton.

The best model, is for Victoria to have 8 clubs, with all of them beng strong, well supported clubs.

Of course people emotions override practical reality because people think with their emotions. But if you put them aside, and look at the AFL totally objectively, Melbourne and North Melbourne offer the AFL nothing of any real value.

In fact, if you look at the Gold Coast and West Sydney as replacements for Melbourne and the Kangaroos, look at how much more those new clubs mean to the AFL. They represent growth areas, in the 1st and 3rd biggest cities in the country, in regions that NEED to be grown and developed. The potential is enourmous, and the up-side is huge.

On the other hand what do Melbourne and North Melbourne represent? Small pockets of suburban Melbourne in an area that is already at its football potential? Largely meaningless compared to the massive upside that the two other new clubs would bring in the decades ahead, as the game grows.

 

[RUNVS]

And end up like the swans, an insignificant handbag team that can't draw a crowd to a home final. That should be more of a concern for the AFL.

Mind you, Carlton had to get bailed out by a billionaire otherwise we be writting a remember carlton thread.

The Swans get better crowds that Melbourne do (when the Demons are playing a interstate team in Melbourne).

 

[Troo Blood]

that is probably the most bullshit quote anyone has ever said here, if you'd live in melbourne then u would know what the hell the club is trying to do

Surely in that case you highlighted the wrong part of the post that you quoted. I am not doubting Melbourne's future and I commend the great efforts of Jim Stynes, but I don't understand why you find it necessary to say that North's efforts at moving forward are bullshit.

 

[Troo Blood]

In fact, if you look at the Gold Coast and West Sydney as replacements for Melbourne and the Kangaroos, look at how much more those new clubs mean to the AFL. They represent growth areas, in the 1st and 3rd biggest cities in the country, in regions that NEED to be grown and developed. The potential is enourmous, and the up-side is huge.

I can't wait for West Sydney and Gold Coast to begin cannibalizing the Swans and Lions markets and we end up with a drastic situation like the Sydney Kings / West Sydney Razorbacks fiasco. That manufactured rivalry was supposed to do wonders for the NBL. It ended up destroying both clubs and now basketball is in the embarrassing position of having no team in the most populous city.

Seriously people, are any Victorians here waiting for Rugby League to introduce a second team into Melbourne before deciding to support that code?

 

[Fastback]

Yep, as one entitiy.

 

[Waspy79]

I can't wait for West Sydney and Gold Coast to begin cannibalizing the Swans and Lions markets and we end up with a drastic situation like the Sydney Kings / West Sydney Razorbacks fiasco. That manufactured rivalry was supposed to do wonders for the NBL. It ended up destroying both clubs and now basketball is in the embarrassing position of having no team in the most populous city.

Seriously people, are any Victorians here waiting for Rugby League to introduce a second team into Melbourne before deciding to support that code?

Not sure how relevant your point is to the OP, but I agree with your sentiments 100%.

 

[Groggyk]

Of course people emotions override practical reality because people think with their emotions. But if you put them aside, and look at the AFL totally objectively, Melbourne and North Melbourne offer the AFL nothing of any real value.

Yeah we give the comp nothing.

Seriously could you possibly be any more arrogant.

Do a wiki search and you might be surprised by the number of things we haven't given to the whole comp.

Many of the traditions and initiatives that have become so entrenched in the fabric and psyche of our game were thought up by North Melbourne. North has a proud history of footy firsts that has given them the reputation of being the pioneers of the AFL.
Apart from co-founding the first ever football league in Victoria - the VFA, and being the first club to install seats at their home ground, they were also the first club to introduce:
Club memberships
Jumper sponsorships
Corporate Entertainment
Coterie Memberships
Grand Final Breakfasts
Friday Night Football
And Cheersquads
All of these ideas were quickly copied by the other clubs and have made our game what it is today.
North has never been afraid to try out new ideas. In 1984, the Club moved away from it's suburban ground at Arden St, and moved to the much larger MCG. The resulting move kicked off the ground rationalisation in the VFL and saw clubs abandon their home grounds for larger stadiums at the MCG, Waverly and Docklands.In 1986, North became the first privatised club in the league, which was followed by Sydney and Fitzroy.
Other minor achievements are that they were the first club to play games interstate when in 1998 they trialled a home game in Canberra, which has now been copied by Carlton, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond, St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs.

 

[Mario the Lothario]

Yep, as one entitiy.

Our first recruit will be the bloke with three strikes.