Society/Culture Working from home vs forced back to the office

[peetoo]

In other words ‘office attendance does not fix fake work’

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/sneaky-theory-behind-return-to-office-mandate-emerges/news-story/a19dd42767891085021e1456ab0bcf12

 

[Rotayjay]

At our office, experienced staff have now been asked to work from home more to make way for new recruits because we reckon the newies should be in office full time, and we don't have the room for everyone in the building.

 

[Cap]

In other words ‘office attendance does not fix fake work’

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/sneaky-theory-behind-return-to-office-mandate-emerges/news-story/a19dd42767891085021e1456ab0bcf12

Im heading into the office this week.

I've already done 2 or 3 hours of extra work in preparation of getting less done in the office.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Being involved in recruitment, it's clear over the last 12 months there's been a swing back to it being an employers market, where a year back employers were falling over themselves to offer incentives for talent.

Exactly.

Has been an employee market for 3-4 years where you can demand what you want and due to shortage of labour employers bend to it.

We are now entering the employers market where you do what the employer wants, or they find someone else who will.

 

[the_interloper]

Im heading into the office this week.

I've already done 2 or 3 hours of extra work in preparation of getting less done in the office.

I got into the office before 7 to actually get some shit done before everyone gets in and has social hour. Back when we were always in the office it was less of an event to see a workmate, some only come in once a week now so we need to "catch up".

 

[burge13]

I got into the office before 7 to actually get some shit done before everyone gets in and has social hour. Back when we were always in the office it was less of an event to see a workmate, some only come in once a week now so we need to "catch up".

I see a couple of workmates 1 day each per week so would easily kill 30-45 mins talking shit on the day we're in office.

I dont think this kind of thing should be looked at negatively though, much better people get along. You're more likely to help a mate than just a colleague, higher morale etc.

There's a balance between productivity and 'productively' socialising.

If management are going to 'force' people back into the office then get upset at people socialising then we've reached peak stupidity. Why go in and not talk, can do that from home ffs

 

[the_interloper]

I see a couple of workmates 1 day each per week so would easily kill 30-45 mins talking shit on the day we're in office.

I dont think this kind of thing should be looked at negatively though, much better people get along. You're more likely to help a mate than just a colleague, higher morale etc.

There's a balance between productivity and 'productively' socialising.

If management are going to 'force' people back into the office then get upset at people socialising then we've reached peak stupidity. Why go in and not talk, can do that from home ffs

i agree with this, i guess it really condenses the catch up time in the office when it's so limited, so as Cap said you tend not to get much actual work done. But yeah, building internal relationships can be as important as external that's for sure.

 

[Cap]

i agree with this, i guess it really condenses the catch up time in the office when it's so limited, so as Cap said you tend not to get much actual work done. But yeah, building internal relationships can be as important as external that's for sure.

Agree with burge13 that the office banter need not be loooked on negatively.

But I'm not going to lie though, the productivity decrease isn't something I am looking for, but so far balancing being polite and telling people I really don't care about their cat has alluded me.

 

[burge13]

Agree with burge13 that the office banter need not be loooked on negatively.

But I'm not going to lie though, the productivity decrease isn't something I am looking for, but so far balancing being polite and telling people I really don't care about their cat has alluded me.

I guess it's weighed up vs how much you get along with colleagues. Can't say I'm top fazed about one ladies latest audiobook or where she hiked but that's quickly over. Talking about the important stuff like punting, boxing, the weekend with the other blokes does take a little longer

 

[swingdog]

We're a small consulting company (so, not representative of the whole but anyway...).

We have 1 day a week (Friday) in a co-working office and that is only for business development. That seems a good balance for us.

 

[Cap]

I guess it's weighed up vs how much you get along with colleagues. Can't say I'm top fazed about one ladies latest audiobook or where she hiked but that's quickly over. Talking about the important stuff like punting, boxing, the weekend with the other blokes does take a little longer

I honestly go to work, to work. I've 8 hours there and I don't want it bleeding into the rest of my life as I don't have the time.

That's just the period of time I am in my life though, it wasn't like that in the past and may change in the future. So there is no judgement on others who want stronger relationships with their colleagues, I get it.

Edit - I don't mean to imply others aren't going to work not to work. I am aware that lots of people also enjoy the social aspect (even business owners and bosses etc) as well.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

We're a small consulting company (so, not representative of the whole but anyway...).

We have 1 day a week (Friday) in a co-working office and that is only for business development. That seems a good balance for us.

our team tends to do 1 x day WFH (Wednesdays) and it's seems everyone's pretty happy about it.

I wouldn't want to do more than that, i generally like being in the office.

 

[swingdog]

our team tends to do 1 x day WFH (Wednesdays) and it's seems everyone's pretty happy about it.

I wouldn't want to do more than that, i generally like being in the office.

This is the good thing about where we are at now - flexibility allows for different circumstances for different organisations. Not sure why we would want to give that up.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

This is the good thing about where we are at now - flexibility allows for different circumstances for different organisations. Not sure why we would want to give that up.

i think flexibility is the way forward.

I def think 100% WFH is dead in the water for most businesses though.

 

[burge13]

i think flexibility is the way forward.

I def think 100% WFH is dead in the water for most businesses though.

For now

As soon as companies realise leasing office space in expensive CBD's is a pretty unnecessary cost people will be home whether they like it or not. I'm not exactly wanting this (2 days per week home is fantastic, more would get a little boring!) but writing is on the wall. Companies want more and more profits, if they can't grow income they cut costs.

We'll see a company eventually do studies to find x amount of loss in productivity but save on leases is better than x amount of productivity in office IMO. Once it's realised, only government will stay in CBD to keep their commercial REO mates happy

 

[HirdsTheWord]

For now

As soon as companies realise leasing office space in expensive CBD's is a pretty unnecessary cost people will be home whether they like it or not. I'm not exactly wanting this (2 days per week home is fantastic, more would get a little boring!) but writing is on the wall. Companies want more and more profits, if they can't grow income they cut costs.

We'll see a company eventually do studies to find x amount of loss in productivity but save on leases is better than x amount of productivity in office IMO. Once it's realised, only government will stay in CBD to keep their commercial REO mates happy

I dont think so, your presumption is that people are more profitable working from home. Thats not the case. Multiple companies have said their operations work better and more efficiently when people are in the same location.

So, whilst offices cost money, if businesses are making more money than it doesn't matter.

Flexibility is the beast way forward. 100% in the office and 100% at home is gone IMO.

 

[burge13]

I dont think so, your presumption is that people are more profitable working from home. Thats not the case. Multiple companies have said their operations work better and more efficiently when people are in the same location.

So, whilst offices cost money, if businesses are making more money than it doesn't matter.

Flexibility is the beast way forward. 100% in the office and 100% at home is gone IMO.

I dont believe this for a second for all industry and every business. You don't think big picture enough if you can't see some businesses would profit more cutting office space, it's pretty obvious in actual fact...

You also get quite defensive on this topic lol. I don't even want full remote work but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it'll become the norm a decade (or less) from now in some industries that are office based

I work in a team of analysts/systems consultants atm. Literally no use having an office lease, as nice as it is coming in a few days a week for social interactions

And it may not be entire companies home, but entire departments within. There'd be a shitload of banking staff in the back office who needn't be there for example

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I dont believe this for a second for all industry and every business. You don't think big picture enough if you can't see some businesses would profit more cutting office space, it's pretty obvious in actual fact...

You also get quite defensive on this topic lol. I don't even want full remote work but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it'll become the norm a decade (or less) from now in some industries that are office based

I work in a team of analysts/systems consultants atm. Literally no use having an office lease, as nice as it is coming in a few days a week for social interactions

And it may not be entire companies home, but entire departments within. There'd be a shitload of banking staff in the back office who needn't be there for example

I dont really mind what you believe. You have an opinion like me, so it's all good.

Commbank were one of the first to mandate office attendance and they said it was because they believed their business would be better for it. Since than they have delivered record results and also record share price all whilst being one of the country's largest commercial tenants and employers.

So far as they are concerned, it's working for their business. Many others agree.

I think you should stop using your own thoughts as an echo chamber for how everyone else thinks. I'm not defensive at all, I prefer majority office work and i choose to work for someone who caters for it, whilst providing me the flexibility to WFH 1 day a week. You're the one who seems defensive rofl.

I dont think full time WFH will ever be the norm without some type of event like a pandemic to trigger it.

People should (and have the choice) work for a company that provides them the working conditions they want. It's really that simple. if you dont like it leave and go somewhere where you want to work.

 

[burge13]

I dont really mind what you believe.

Commbank were one of the first to mandate office attendance and they said it was because they believed their business would be better for it. Since than they have delivered record results and also record share price all whilst being one of the country's largest commercial tenants.

So far as they are concerned, it's working for their business. Many others agree.

I think you should stop using your own thoughts as an echo chamber for how everyone else thinks. I'm not defensive at all, I prefer majority office work and i choose to work for someone who caters for it, whilst providing me the flexibility to WFH 1 day a week. You're the one who seems defensive rofl.

I dont think full time WFH will ever be the norm without some type of event like a pandemic to trigger it.

People should work for a company that provides them the working conditions they want. Its really that simple.

You're right, every department of every business is worth spending heaps on office space. No benefit in thinking otherwise or changing, the status quo is perfect for everyone

Bold 1 is defensive

I'm not using my thoughts as an echo chamber, I'm thinking ahead to logically where things could end up. Not every business but it'll certainly see many fully remote. You only need to walk around the CBD to see plenty of office space for lease and not being taken up, I wonder why

PS, it isn't 'flexible' mandating things, it's the opposite. Flexible would be allowing staff to work the days they want home or office, not telling them how often they can do it...

Agree with 2nd bold, which makes it all the more baffling when people come in here getting defensive about people wanting to WFH more, or predicting that remote work will be more beneficial in future

 

[peetoo]

I dont think so, your presumption is that people are more profitable working from home. Thats not the case. Multiple companies have said their operations work better and more efficiently when people are in the same location.

So, whilst offices cost money, if businesses are making more money than it doesn't matter.

Flexibility is the beast way forward. 100% in the office and 100% at home is gone IMO.

So what’s the go with big 4 consultants? They charge hours wherever they are. Office, clients, home. How do they track them anyhow?
Chipped like an Amazon gofer?

I’m thinking all these companies are playing the ‘good corporate citizen’ to each other, but changing nothing internally

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You're right, every department of every business is worth spending heaps on office space. No benefit in thinking otherwise or changing, the status quo is perfect for everyone

Bold 1 is defensive

I'm not using my thoughts as an echo chamber, I'm thinking ahead to logically where things could end up. Not every business but it'll certainly see many fully remote. You only need to walk around the CBD to see plenty of office space for lease and not being taken up, I wonder why

PS, it isn't 'flexible' mandating things, it's the opposite. Flexible would be allowing staff to work the days they want home or office, not telling them how often they can do it...

Agree with 2nd bold, which makes it all the more baffling when people come in here getting defensive about people wanting to WFH more, or predicting that remote work will be more beneficial in future

Flexibility is doing something both ways. Give and take.

A company asking someone to work from the office full time and an employee asking to WFH full time are both not flexible.

Saying i dont think WFH 100% is going to be way the of the future is not getting defensive guy. It's just an opinion. I dont really care what other people do with their lives. It's their business. not mine. If people want to WFH full time good on them, i hope they find an employer who provides it.

You are literally just calling someone defensive because they disagree with you. You are allowed to have different opinions. I have once said people shouldn't be allowed to WFH?

I work for who i want to work for, you and others should do the same.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So what’s the go with big 4 consultants? They charge hours wherever they are. Office, clients, home. How do they track them anyhow?
Chipped like an Amazon gofer?

I’m thinking all these companies are playing the ‘good corporate citizen’ to each other, but changing nothing internally

i have no idea what you are talking about sorry.

From my understanding all of the big 4 consultancies offer flexible WFH arrangements.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

So what’s the go with big 4 consultants? They charge hours wherever they are. Office, clients, home. How do they track them anyhow?
Chipped like an Amazon gofer?

I’m thinking all these companies are playing the ‘good corporate citizen’ to each other, but changing nothing internally

Depends on their engagement. Fixed price then its pay on delivery/outcome, T&M then they'll track you as their clients would track a permanent. Whilst limited to only my current experience with mates, colleagues, ex colleagues all at enterprise corporates three days is becoming the normal, trains are much fuller than they were six months ago. Also salaries have flattened in my sector, the absurd amounts being offered up just after Covid are gone and people are just waking up to that now.

 

[peetoo]

Many people suspect these mandates are to lower headcounts without payouts

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Many people suspect these mandates are to lower headcounts without payouts

i dunno if that's the sole reason, but reasonably smart if you are an employer looking to cut costs without paying out redundancy.

That is if all your best people dont walk!