Socceroos World Cup Qualifiers Socceroos V China/Japan

[RedStarUncle]

We didn't pick him as he wasn't going to be playing much of a role apart from off the bench. If he was picked he would have to play.

He's not exactly playing at a level and with the quality to be a starter now anyway... I think we'll end up chucking him in the boat of "cap him now" youngsters who end up not being good enough for either country.

 

[Zidane98]

He's not exactly playing at a level and with the quality to be a starter now anyway... I think we'll end up chucking him in the boat of "cap him now" youngsters who end up not being good enough for either country.

Yeah that's my feeling too. He's not worth pursuing until he is starting regularly in Serie A and making an impact. Right now we have Irankunda, Silvera, McGree & Goodwin as pretty talented wide forwards who are performing at a higher level right now.

 

[RedStarUncle]

Anyone complaining about us shutting up shop against Japan and doing a good job of it, with the current team we have, is absolutely kidding themselves.

I get the idea that if Australia wants to do anything as a football country, we should be wanting to be able to go to Japan and take the game to them and try and score a few goals and boss possession. That's the dream and that's the idea that one day we talk about winning World Cups not just qualifying for them.



Reality is though that Japan has a solid 30 years of proactive improvement and working along a pathway to being probably the best national side outside of Europe and South America. They've stuck to it, build their league into something meaningful, and moved beyond importing talented players and coaches to being able to develop their own.

We on the other hand have meandered through 30 years of here-and-there uncoordinated turmoil and chaos, and our playing talent reflects that. We've got a decent team and one that can play defensively and do it well and if we put it together get to a WC and not look out of place at the tournament. But we're not just magically going to ask Hrustic, Miller, and Velupillay to play like De Bruyne, Gvardiol, and Haaland and suddenly Australia will be the Man City of international football.

Closest we ever got to being at the standard was 2006 when Guus led the Golden Generation that mostly went through the AIS and left to play overseas in their late teens and early twenties, and when Ange was in charge he vaguely found a good balance with an attacking style but barely qualified us for the WC and was driven out by negative fans and media.



Fix the development pathway, and then in 20 years we can talk about the playing style and intent.

 

[Hamingja]

Anyone complaining about us shutting up shop against Japan and doing a good job of it, with the current team we have, is absolutely kidding themselves.

It was a great result. Combined with the Saudis draw it has basically reset the qualifiers to the beginning. Going in we would be aiming to beat the Saudis at home, draw away, finish 2nd. Back on track to be able to do that now.

 

[RedStarUncle]

It was a great result. Combined with the Saudis draw it has basically reset the qualifiers to the beginning. Going in we would be aiming to beat the Saudis at home, draw away, finish 2nd. Back on track to be able to do that now.

The hope will be to beat the Saudis in Melbourne and get some momentum up to roll through the Bahrain, Indonesia, and China games in November and March.

They should all be winnable, and would probably put us in a position to maybe only need a draw from the final games in June (Japan-home and Saudis-away) which we'd hate to go into needing 3 or 4 points making them effectively playoffs.

 

[eldorado]

Anyone complaining about us shutting up shop against Japan and doing a good job of it, with the current team we have, is absolutely kidding themselves.

I'm not sure anyone is.

My complaint is in bold.

 

[Quicky]

The result was fantastic. The execution of the game plan defensively was exceptional. The 5-2-3 implemented had to be aimed at Japan (A) and to right the ship.

The defensive shape of the centre pivots worked but offensively they gave us nothing. Brattan was really poor. We were betrer with Yazbek. Irvine isn't great on the ball when pressed.

I hope to see a changed formation in the next games. A back 4 and some more progressive mids. We do have the players to play more positive football. I'd love to any of Luongo, Robertson, Nisbet and Balard play with McGree. Geria to RB and no Miller with an extra mid will help us create chances. Goodwin will be a huge loss v the Saudis though.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not sure anyone is.

My complaint is in bold.

You do realise that 4 of our best midfielders (Luongo, Robertson, O'Neill, Metcalfe) and our starting CF Kusini Yengi were all unavailable for this match?

 

[Zidane98]

Japan played right into our hands by being forced wide and sending crosses in. We absolutely dominated them in the penalty area. When they actually scored it was because they got behind us and sent a low cross in from which Burgo unfortunately deflected it in.


Also the same problem Japan have had for many years. They look very neat & tidy on the ball witch some nice touches but end product against decent opposition still is lacking despite all these years of development.

Our CF issues are minor compared to theirs. They're barely producing any quality CFs.

 

[eldorado]

You do realise that 4 of our best midfielders (Luongo, Robertson, O'Neill, Metcalfe) and our starting CF Kusini Yengi were all unavailable for this match?

Of those, only Robertson looks like a decent, potentially elite player.

The rest are what we have...technically average plodders. (maybe being slightly harsh on O'Neill)

 

[Zidane98]

Of those, only Robertson looks like a decent, potentially elite player.

The rest are what we have...technically average plodders. (maybe being slightly harsh on O'Neill)

What? Metcalfe is anything but! We missed him greatly in this international window. O'Neill is also quality. And Luongo speaks for himself.


All of these play at a high level in Europe regularly, all were massive outs.

 

[RedStarUncle]

What? Metcalfe is anything but! We missed him greatly in this international window. O'Neill is also quality. And Luongo speaks for himself.


All of these play at a high level in Europe regularly, all were massive outs.

They're good players and we missed them. Agree in particular on Metcalfe.

Luongo though is a reserve for a recently promoted EPL club. Robertson a youngster in the Championship. If these guys are our best - that's the problem. They would be lucky to get a game for most of the countries we'd like to see ourselves competing with (Japan, USA, Chile, Ivory Coast, and all the mid-level European clubs).

Our best players are the sorts of players you'd expect for an upper level Asian club that mostly qualifies for WC but not always and rarely does anything there. That doesn't get fixed by the coach or the tactics and in fact Arnie's or now Popa's defensive tactics have probably seen us overachieve of late.

 

[RedStarUncle]

The result was fantastic. The execution of the game plan defensively was exceptional. The 5-2-3 implemented had to be aimed at Japan (A) and to right the ship.

The defensive shape of the centre pivots worked but offensively they gave us nothing. Brattan was really poor. We were betrer with Yazbek. Irvine isn't great on the ball when pressed.

I hope to see a changed formation in the next games. A back 4 and some more progressive mids. We do have the players to play more positive football. I'd love to any of Luongo, Robertson, Nisbet and Balard play with McGree. Geria to RB and no Miller with an extra mid will help us create chances. Goodwin will be a huge loss v the Saudis though.

I think we should stick with the 5-2-3. I particularly like it if we can get Rowles and Circati into the back 3 with Souttar because they can site a bit wider and further forward and get on the ball.

The two defensive pivots not offering much going forward is ok because you can push for a lot more progression from the wingbacks and that suits both our more defensive-first mids and some good quick wide backs.

And as a bonus you get our most dangerous players - our wingers - inside and more directly attacking the goal. Goodwin against Japan for example and would love to see Boyle in this role.

 

[Zidane98]

No Circati for 12 months probably. Did an ACL @ Parma. So annoying, just as he was getting into Serie A football.

 

[Quicky]

I think we should stick with the 5-2-3. I particularly like it if we can get Rowles and Circati into the back 3 with Souttar because they can site a bit wider and further forward and get on the ball.

The two defensive pivots not offering much going forward is ok because you can push for a lot more progression from the wingbacks and that suits both our more defensive-first mids and some good quick wide backs.

And as a bonus you get our most dangerous players - our wingers - inside and more directly attacking the goal. Goodwin against Japan for example and would love to see Boyle in this role.

I don't think we get enough from our midfield with that formation. We have a lot of good midfielders I'd like to see play that can't in that formation.

The wingers were largely redundant because of that formation v Japan. We barely attacked the box because we had no midfield control.

We don't have a natural RWB either, not until Strain returns from injury. Miller was just okay but really not good enough defensively or offensively. Weird to say with a goal and assist but still true imo. Metcalfe might work there.

Rowles I really like defensively but is terrible on the ball, too easy to press, which is why Burgess played.

 

[RedStarUncle]

I don't think we get enough from our midfield with that formation. We have a lot of good midfielders I'd like to see play that can't in that formation.

The wingers were largely redundant because of that formation v Japan. We barely attacked the box because we had no midfield control.

We don't have a natural RWB either, not until Strain returns from injury. Miller was just okay but really not good enough defensively or offensively. Weird to say with a goal and assist but still true imo. Metcalfe might work there.

Rowles I really like defensively but is terrible on the ball, too easy to press, which is why Burgess played.

Wingers were always going to be redundant against Japan given we'd be playing with about 30% possession no matter what... so I'm kind of glad we had them in a back 5 and defending rather than in a front 3 nowhere near the ball. When you're stuck in a permanent defensive block it's basically just the difference between 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 but the 4-5-1 usually ends up with at least 1 winger eventually getting caught out and you're down to a 4-4 block.

It does come with less chance for the middle 2 to create some control and admittedly with Irvine, O'Neill, and Brattan in particular none have done the job on the ball in those first 2 Popa games. Yazbak probably done the best in terms of going both ways. Irvine good in the defensive aspects but struggled on the ball.



The formation worked a treat under Popa when it was Juande and Kilkenny in those roles at Glory. Probably any of the current midfielders picked fit the Juande bill. Just need a Kilkenny who can take a mainly defensive position, but has a good range of passing and able to resist the press on the ball.

I reckon Metcalfe or Luongo ends up in that role and it's a shame they were both out.

 

[Quicky]

Wingers were always going to be redundant against Japan given we'd be playing with about 30% possession no matter what... so I'm kind of glad we had them in a back 5 and defending rather than in a front 3 nowhere near the ball. When you're stuck in a permanent defensive block it's basically just the difference between 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 but the 4-5-1 usually ends up with at least 1 winger eventually getting caught out and you're down to a 4-4 block.

It does come with less chance for the middle 2 to create some control and admittedly with Irvine, O'Neill, and Brattan in particular none have done the job on the ball in those first 2 Popa games. Yazbak probably done the best in terms of going both ways. Irvine good in the defensive aspects but struggled on the ball.



The formation worked a treat under Popa when it was Juande and Kilkenny in those roles at Glory. Probably any of the current midfielders picked fit the Juande bill. Just need a Kilkenny who can take a mainly defensive position, but has a good range of passing and able to resist the press on the ball.

I reckon Metcalfe or Luongo ends up in that role and it's a shame they were both out.

I think the formation v Bahrain and Japan was pragmatic (given prep time and state of the team at the time) and have no issues with it then. The results back that up. Also Saudi (A) I think it has a place.

I just hope against Saudi (H) and the rest of the group bar Japan that we play a more progressive system. I want it to be plan B not our first choice formation.

 

[RedStarUncle]

Wingers were always going to be redundant against Japan given we'd be playing with about 30% possession no matter what... so I'm kind of glad we had them in a back 5 and defending rather than in a front 3 nowhere near the ball. When you're stuck in a permanent defensive block it's basically just the difference between 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 but the 4-5-1 usually ends up with at least 1 winger eventually getting caught out and you're down to a 4-4 block.

It does come with less chance for the middle 2 to create some control and admittedly with Irvine, O'Neill, and Brattan in particular none have done the job on the ball in those first 2 Popa games. Yazbak probably done the best in terms of going both ways. Irvine good in the defensive aspects but struggled on the ball.



The formation worked a treat under Popa when it was Juande and Kilkenny in those roles at Glory. Probably any of the current midfielders picked fit the Juande bill. Just need a Kilkenny who can take a mainly defensive position, but has a good range of passing and able to resist the press on the ball.

I reckon Metcalfe or Luongo ends up in that role and it's a shame they were both out.

5-2-3 but with Bos on left-wing and Rowles at LCB, Metcalfe in the double-pivot, and Hrustic as one of the front 3 playing in behind the striker basically becomes an attacking 4-2-3-1 anyway...... formations don't dictate style and balance they mainly just dictate defensive shape.

When you're under the pump defensive shape matters a lot so relevant against Japan, Saudi, etc. When you're controlling the game you could probably call it a 2-6-2 or 3-2-5 or whatever and all that would matter was how the team structures its attacks once it gets into the forward third.



All I want to see is, given we have no star centre-forward option, the likes of Irankunda, Boyle, Goodwin, Mabil, Kuol, etc. running at the goal not running at the corner flag!