Socceroos World Cup Qualifiers Socceroos V China/Japan

[Bleedblueandgold]

We didn't pick him as he wasn't going to be playing much of a role apart from off the bench. If he was picked he would have to play.

Where do you get that info from? He was the one that rejected us. The quotes from him and Arnold clearly reflect that.

he declined our opportunity to come to play for Australia at the World Cup," Arnold said on Fox Sports News.

 

[Zidane98]

Where do you get that info from? Afaik he was the one that rejected us. The quotes from him and Arnold clearly reflect that.

Arnold decided to not select him.


Not sure if you understand how international selection works. Any eligible player is obliged to play when called up by their national team. Refusal means suspension from club football in every instance if the association officially selects a player.

Some players have gentleman's agreements eg retirements but ultimately the NT association retains all the power.

Arnold & FA decided to not select him in the end. He was never named in an official squad you will find for Qatar 22.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

That's because he didn't want to play for us as he still had a preference to play for Italy and didn't want that door to be closed.
If Arnold selected him anyway knowing he would refuse to play resulting him being suspended from his club, then he would've burnt all bridges lol.

 

[Zidane98]

That's because he didn't want to play for us as he still had a preference to play for Italy and didn't want that door to be closed.
If Arnold selected him anyway knowing he would refuse to play resulting him being suspended from his club, then he would've burnt all bridges lol.

You're not getting it. Players cannot refuse an international call up if they are eligible to play for their NT. This is enshrined in FIFA rules as if that wasn't the case clubs would definitely withhold players from international to protect their players from risk of injury.


Arnold wanted to select Volpato (probably for experience) but decided not to after discussing it with Volpato. It is for this reason that Volpato was never selected or named in an official Qatar 2022 squad.

If Arnold had of named him in the squad for Qatar 2022 he would have been obliged to play. FA & Arnold made the decision that it wasn't worth forcing the issue at the time.


Italy also could have forced the issue but seemingly have no interest.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

You're not getting it. Players cannot refuse an international call up if they are eligible to play for their NT. This is enshrined in FIFA rules as if that wasn't the case clubs would definitely withhold players from international to protect their players from risk of injury.


Arnold wanted to select Volpato (probably for experience) but decided not to after discussing it with Volpato. It is for this reason that Volpato was never selected or named in an official Qatar 2022 squad.

If Arnold had of named him in the squad for Qatar 2022 he would have been obliged to play. FA & Arnold made the decision that it wasn't worth forcing the issue at the time.


Italy also could have forced the issue but seemingly have no interest.

I am getting it lol, Arnold was not gonna select him when he didn't want to play just to get him suspended and guarantee he will never choose to play for Australia again.
It's not about the FIFA rules, we didn't select him out of good-will in the hope he would voluntarily play for us in the future.
Enough, please...

 

[Zidane98]

Bit of an overreaction there mate. Idgaf about England and I don’t see why you’d bring up cricket in this conversation.

Did you watch the game? We were shithouse. If that’s the way we’re going about our football we’re basically conceding we’re happy to be a 30-50 ranked side. What’s the point?

What on earth lol. We played an excellent game containing them.


Did you see what the score was when Japan played China at home?

7-0 win to Japan.

Very few sides go to Japan and shut them down like we did last night.

 

[nobbyiscool]

It is a conundrum looking forward to 2026.


I can see us lining up like this in 2 years time:


--------------Gauci-----------------

Miller-------Circati-----Souttar-------Bos

--Robertson------O'neill------Metcalfe

----McGree--------Yengi---------Irankunda

I'm unsure why you keep suggesting a formation that isn't Popa's preferred one, and that we haven't played in his first 2 games in charge.

 

[Zidane98]

I am getting it lol, Arnold was not gonna select him when he didn't want to play just to get him suspended and guarantee he will never choose to play for Australia again.
It's not about the FIFA rules, Australia didn't select him out of good-will.
Enough, please...

Australia absolutely had the right to name him at Qatar 2022 and he would have been obliged to play. Considering his age and the likelihood that he would play little role it was a smart move by Football Australia to not force the issue by leaving him out of the squad. Always better to get a player onboard before making the choice for him. This is the current approach with Volpato, he is still only 20 years old, there's plenty of time for him to make the switch on his own accord rather than forcing the issue.

This scenario has already played out many times with other NT players.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Australia absolutely had the right to name him at Qatar 2022 and he would have been obliged to play. Considering his age and the likelihood that he would play little role it was a smart move by Football Australia to not force the issue by leaving him out of the squad. Always better to get a player onboard before making the choice for him. This is the current approach with Volpato, he is still only 20 years old, there's plenty of time for him to make the switch on his own accord rather than forcing the issue.

This scenario has already played out many times with other NT players.

 

[Munga]

One of the stories at the time was Volpato thought he wasn't good enough yet for senior international football, either worried about embarrassing or letting down. Apparently crying.

Whether any of it is true who knows?

 

[eldorado]

I’ll tell you what’s idiotic - the idea that tonight’s result was anything other than pure ass. I’m old enough to remember being roughly equal to Japan as a side - only the most demented homeboy would make that claim now.

I'm with you.

I want to preface this by saying that pre-game, I fancied Australia to get a hard-fought draw...though I thought it would be 0-0


I thought this was possible because we ARE extremely well disciplined and organised, and we tend to really shine against better opposition.

However...

The manner in which we were so completely outplayed, the absolute yamning chasm in technique on the ball...it was galling.

We had Jordan Bos as our best (only?) technical player on the ball. It seemed to me that the entire Japanese team had a level of ability about or beyond Bos. For example, on the wing they had Kubo. We had Brattan. It was laughable watching such a donkey compared to Japanese players.

I also remember us being able to take the game to Japan. To see how far our standards have slipped is obvious.

Many comments here imply that we should be happy with a point against such an obviously superior opponent...which is true enough...

But the question as WHY are we now so inferior, why and how we could be so comprehensively outplayed...it needs to be addressed.

I swear, I don't think we had a touch in the opposition box.

Elsewhere, someone has said our problem is in the final third. I don't agree. I think it is that out paucity of technical ability means our only tactic is "knock it wide, run into space, knock it wide again, get it into danger area"

Sometimes you have to do that. But if you don't have players who can actuallyrun at the opposition through the middle, drop the shoulder, turn, and beat them one-on-one to get into dangerous positions...you will be a horriblly predictable team to defend against.

Which is why my best hope was 0-0. Maybe a set-piece goal, but what we create from generate play, actually percing opposition defences with sharp interplay through a defence, simply doesn't exist.

When oppositions close down space, we lose possession. When we get into the clutter of the box, we lose possession.

I'm grumpy because 20 years ago, we were promised the KNVB technical revolution, with small sided games, elite coaching, producing European level players. It hasn't happened at all. We've technically regressed at an alarming rate.

I refuse to believe the "Golden Generation" was a one-off freak occurence that we need to forget. It should be the standard...and we're nowhere near it.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm with you.

I want to preface this by saying that pre-game, I fancied Australia to get a hard-fought draw...though I thought it would be 0-0


I thought this was possible because we ARE extremely well disciplined and organised, and we tend to really shine against better opposition.

However...

The manner in which we were so completely outplayed, the absolute yamning chasm in technique on the ball...it was galling.

We had Jordan Bos as our best (only?) technical player on the ball. It seemed to me that the entire Japanese team had a level of ability about or beyond Bos. For example, on the wing they had Kubo. We had Brattan. It was laughable watching such a donkey compared to Japanese players.

I also remember us being able to take the game to Japan. To see how far our standards have slipped is obvious.

Many comments here imply that we should be happy with a point against such an obviously superior opponent...which is true enough...

But the question as WHY are we now so inferior, why and how we could be so comprehensively outplayed...it needs to be addressed.

I swear, I don't think we had a touch in the opposition box.

Elsewhere, someone has said our problem is in the final third. I don't agree. I think it is that out paucity of technical ability means our only tactic is "knock it wide, run into space, knock it wide again, get it into danger area"

Sometimes you have to do that. But if you don't have players who can actuallyrun at the opposition through the middle, drop the shoulder, turn, and beat them one-on-one to get into dangerous positions...you will be a horriblly predictable team to defend against.

Which is why my best hope was 0-0. Maybe a set-piece goal, but what we create from generate play, actually percing opposition defences with sharp interplay through a defence, simply doesn't exist.

When oppositions close down space, we lose possession. When we get into the clutter of the box, we lose possession.

I'm grumpy because 20 years ago, we were promised the KNVB technical revolution, with small sided games, elite coaching, producing European level players. It hasn't happened at all. We've technically regressed at an alarming rate.

I refuse to believe the "Golden Generation" was a one-off freak occurence that we need to forget. It should be the standard...and we're nowhere near it.

When oppositions close down space, we lose possession. When we get into the clutter of the box, no

A few issues here.

We did well in midfield Brattan aside who was a fill in due to unavailabilities. Will he be our mid going forward? No. Is he good enough to fill in occasionally? Yes. Will he be in the squad for USA 2026? Very unlikely.

Japan had the lions share of possession but were ultimately restricted to just 3 shots including 1 on target. We were happy to concede the wide areas as we dominated them centrally in defense. Very, very few teams in AFC qualifiying are able to do so away to Japan. China lost 7-0 just recently to them, that's how dominant they can be at home. It'll be a different story when we play them at home.

20 years ago standards were far lower. The level of players 20 years ago is a far cry required from the level to compete in today's game at the highest level.

Our midfield is looking very good once you take Luongo, Robertson, Metcalfe, O'Neill into account - all absent against the Japanese.

You have guys like Irankunda, McGree & Silvera with technical ability. In the case of Irankunda & Silvera there's plenty of development to be had on that area.

 

[eldorado]

. It'll be a different story when we play them at home.

20 years ago standards were far lower. The level of players 20 years ago is a far cry required from the level to compete in today's game at the highest level.

To your first point...I don't knwo how you can be confident of this, given the gulf between teams..


To your second point, I'm not sure of the relevance. Assuming both sets of players were 'far lower' 20 years ago, because of 'time' (a point I don't concede...unless you're telling me Zidane would find it hard to compete in 2024...let alone Maradona from the 80s...but I digress)

But even if true...how have Japan manage to improve so obviously, while we haven't, apart from a few unproven hopefuls that you mention?

 

[Zidane98]

To your first point...I don't knwo how you can be confident of this, given the gulf between teams..


To your second point, I'm not sure of the relevance. Assuming both sets of players were 'far lower' 20 years ago, because of 'time' (a point I don't concede...unless you're telling me Zidane would find it hard to compete in 2024...let alone Maradona from the 80s...but I digress)

But even if true...how have Japan manage to improve so obviously, while we haven't, apart from a few unproven hopefuls that you mention?

Japan has a population of 125,000,000. Only one other code (Union) and way more financial clout.

They should be able to wipe the floor with us.


A more apt comparison is China. Had a blank cheque from Xi before COVID. In every way significantly inferior to Australia as a footballing nation despite a huge population & financial advantage.

 

[gaskin]

Japan has a population of 125,000,000. Only one other code (Union) and way more financial clout.

They should be able to wipe the floor with us.

Baseball is also pretty big in Japan.

 

[Zidane98]

Baseball is also pretty big in Japan.

True. Not a direct competitor though.

 

[Cromulant]

Baseball is also pretty big in Japan.

Have the current MLB MVP too I think

 

[giggler99]

To your first point...I don't knwo how you can be confident of this, given the gulf between teams..


To your second point, I'm not sure of the relevance. Assuming both sets of players were 'far lower' 20 years ago, because of 'time' (a point I don't concede...unless you're telling me Zidane would find it hard to compete in 2024...let alone Maradona from the 80s...but I digress)

But even if true...how have Japan manage to improve so obviously, while we haven't, apart from a few unproven hopefuls that you mention?

Have Japan improved so obviously? I mean they did look flashy and skilful in bursts last night but nothing that says they are heads and shoulders above us and only managed to score due to an own goal. They still look very timid against our stronger bodies which has always been our advantage over them.

But in any case Japan spend and invest a hell of a lot more than us on their football programs and leagues they have two divisions of professional clubs with most having academies. ours is being run on a oily rag and our professional league is reducing costs. considering I think we’ve actually stacked up pretty well against Japan over the years.

 

[gaskin]

True. Not a direct competitor though.

Not a direct competitor but will still take some athletes away from football.

 

[Zidane98]

Not a direct competitor but will still take some athletes away from football.

Defintiely. It is the only other major team sport though and is played in opposite seasons to football. With the amount of money invested in Japanese football and 60 professional teams (almost on par with England) there won't be too many potentially elite footballers being lost to baseball.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

What's the point of VAR when a clear foul is allowed in the build up to Japan's goal?

 

[eldorado]

But in any case Japan spend and invest a hell of a lot more than us on their football programs

This is a major part of the problem.

 

[Cromulant]

This is a major part of the problem.

It is, but not a huge amount can really be done about it whilst the Big 2 football codes take all the cash

 

[eldorado]

It is, but not a huge amount can really be done about it whilst the Big 2 football codes take all the cash

I was hoping that the idea of 'football diplomacy', being the truly global game, would make the Federal government invest heavily years ago, at the same time the "Dutch' revolution was being talked about...but they have done the opposite.

Now it's left to bullshit private academies, fly-by-nighters, club level talent identification, (including club politics) and pot-luck.

Bosman rule unfortunately mean less European clubs are willing to take young Aussies on-board, and the development suffers as a result.

A central issue, I think, is the dearth of high level coaching in our little minnow, money-starved football economy.

 

[Zidane98]

Have Japan improved so obviously? I mean they did look flashy and skilful in bursts last night but nothing that says they are heads and shoulders above us and only managed to score due to an own goal. They still look very timid against our stronger bodies which has always been our advantage over them.

But in any case Japan spend and invest a hell of a lot more than us on their football programs and leagues they have two divisions of professional clubs with most having academies. ours is being run on a oily rag and our professional league is reducing costs. considering I think we’ve actually stacked up pretty well against Japan over the years.

Japan have always looked flashy and skilfull in the past. Where they generally are let down is competing physically and being very set in their routines.

In general our sporting culture is superior to theirs. They have the advantage financially & in numbers.