Worsfold - very impressive and forthright

[Dusky]

Another issue Woosha pointed out that really concerned me is that only the club doctor is informed of the test results and he is not allowed to pass information to anyone else besides the individual player involved, so essentially a player can prove positive twice and the club can not act on it as they are not informed on the situation.

As Woosha said, how can a club act on the problem if the AFL's own rules are protecting the offending player? at the end of the day the club can't act on assumptions, they need proof and that proof only reaches the the club doctors confidentiallity.

 

[Lach72]

Another issue Woosha pointed out that really concerned me is that only the club doctor is informed of the test results and he is not allowed to pass information to anyone else besides the individual player involved, so essentially a player can prove positive twice and the club can not act on it as they are not informed on the situation.

As Woosha said, how can a club act on the problem if the AFL's own rules are protecting the offending player? at the end of the day the club can't act on assumptions, they need proof and that proof only reaches the the club doctors confidentiallity.

The only problem with that is Woosh thought the players had lied to him, about their connections, about their drug taking etc.

Now to me this should've meant a stint at East Fremantle or a long term "injury".

 

[UpForGrabs]

fwiw, he probably is a decent bloke but please... if you think you can make character judgements from a TV interview

But everyone's more than comfortable in seeing a Worsfold after-match press conference and concluding that the man is an arrogant a**hole...

 

[QL 21]

The only problem with that is Woosh thought the players had lied to him, about their connections, about their drug taking etc.

Now to me this should've meant a stint at East Fremantle or a long term "injury".

You can't punish someone because you think they're lying to you. That's the point Woosha was trying to make. If the AFL gave the club a list of names of people who have tested positive, then they would know they have been lied to then they can take further action.

 

[leaper]

I thought Woosha came across as very sincere in what he said. Sometimes when you are very close to the problem it is difficult to see the big picture. You have the responsiblity of running the football team for the vast army of supporters and sponsors. In hindsight they should have acted when the warning bells were ringing 2 years ago.

The part I can't get my head around is the AFL's role in this. If I heard right the club can't be told about a player until he has tested 3 times positive. In any other business the employer is told immediately and takes remedial action, for both the organisation and the individual. The chances of randomly coming up 3 times positive are very low. After 1 you have a chance to help after 3 you have a disaster on your hands.

 

[Belgian_Tiger_Army]

Hang on.

Whoosha isn't some average Joe that ended up coaching the club.

He played his entire career at West Coast and knows as much as anyone how Eagles players are treated in Perth. If he hasn't attended the sort of functions that Eagles players regularly attend in Perth then he has mates that do. He would know as much as anyone what goes on at those parties. He is also extremely well connected in Perth - he's a local. He would know exactly what the associates of his players get up to and what sort of characters they are.

His "don't blame me" excuses are actually rather sickening.

Footy clubs are interesting places, and elite athletes have interesting lifestyles. I have a friend who was an elite swimmer. She's reached her late 20's and suddenly realised "Oh my God - there's this whole world out there I know nothing about". Her life from teen years through to roughly 26 were spent on training & education. She's suddenly like a teenager. The other side is that if you've got a job and career - you might turn straight into a nice upstanding member of society.

The other thing about footy clubs - is that it isn't like a normal workplace. A friend of mine plays for a Melbourne based club. Really nice guy, really switched on, educated. He is mates with probably 2-3 other players. He hangs around with others, but they are more workmates than friends. He laughs at what they get up to - generally girls, bits of alcohol, and pranks. As far as he is concerned - there is no drug problem because he's never encountered it. No one mentions it anywhere.

Drugs are like that. If you enquire, dig around - they are everywhere. If you don't ask - you never find out. the avergae nightclub has between 20-80% of people off their faces. But when I originally wnet clubbing - I just thought some people were chatty people, some were drunk and never witnessed any drug use. Go to any dance music event and you'll be shocked at how all pervading drugs are - but only if you know.

It all comes down to trust, human nature and experience.

You say Worsfold is well connected and lives in a goldfish bowl. And i'm saying the one or two "different" goldfish in his bowl - along with the 5-10 normal goldfish might have been pretty careful and kept the treasure locked away in a chest, away from Worsfolds eyes.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

You're missing the point entirely. Footballers and Rock Stars are just a different category of people all together.

Desperatation at it's worst.......so we as a society should accept and applaud illegal behaviour in rock stars, yet slam them when you get lucky enough that it's someone in a blue and yellow jumper, not a red and white one? Wonder if you'd have the same attitude if it was a Swan?

 

[Jeremias]

He was very good, spoke excellently and sincerely, and for that I commend him.

A big thumbs up to Brian Cousins as well.

 

[Eagle87]

If they got tapped then they obviously were oblivious to it einstein.

Not the sharpest are we?

 

[plugger47]

Another issue Woosha pointed out that really concerned me is that only the club doctor is informed of the test results and he is not allowed to pass information to anyone else besides the individual player involved, so essentially a player can prove positive twice and the club can not act on it as they are not informed on the situation.

As Woosha said, how can a club act on the problem if the AFL's own rules are protecting the offending player? at the end of the day the club can't act on assumptions, they need proof and that proof only reaches the the club doctors confidentiallity.

I would have thought a pharmacist might be able to identify some signs and symptoms of drug abuse - behaviours, appearance and other side effects. Mate, Woosha didn't want to know and turned a blind eye. He is an unethical chancer who puts winning above all else. All the rest - excuses, finger pointing and buck passing is covering his well paid arse.
The clubs have considerable contractual rights if they want to use them. They could do their own testing if they wanted to ffs. If a identified on reasonable grounds for testing refused they could terminate the contract. There is circumstantial and tendency evidence in proof. Crikey is the stringent standards of proof used by the WC we applied in the criminal justice system there would be very few people in jail.

 

[plugger47]

Desperatation at it's worst.......so we as a society should accept and applaud illegal behaviour in rock stars, yet slam them when you get lucky enough that it's someone in a blue and yellow jumper, not a red and white one? Wonder if you'd have the same attitude if it was a Swan?

Yes its zero tolerance for the Bloods. And they know it. And the commercial realities of sponsorship and the fierce competition amongst the football codes in NSW means that the club could and should enforce it. You have no idea the damage that the WC implosion is doing to the marketability of the code in NSW. And if you don't care the AFL should. Moneybags should get off his vastly over paid arse and do what he is paid an obsecene amount of moola to do - fix it.

 

[QL 21]

I would have thought a pharmacist might be able to identify some signs and symptoms of drug abuse - behaviours, appearance and other side effects. Mate, Woosha didn't want to know and turned a blind eye. He is an unethical chancer who puts winning above all else. All the rest - excuses, finger pointing and buck passing is covering his well paid arse.
The clubs have considerable contractual rights if they want to use them. They could do their own testing if they wanted to ffs. If a identified on reasonable grounds for testing refused they could terminate the contract. There is circumstantial and tendency evidence in proof. Crikey is the stringent standards of proof used by the WC we applied in the criminal justice system there would be very few people in jail.

Didn't Woosha say on TFS last night that the club couldn't do their own testing? They would have already done their own testing if they were allowed to.

Worsfold heard that a few players might be taking drugs and he asked them personally. What more can he do? He can't suspend them, the club can't give them a drug test, what can he do if they're turning up to training and doing everything which is asked of them?

 

[Milkman]

There's no point arguing with Plugger. It's obvious he's still hurting from the GF.

1 point. Ouch!

 

[MarkT]

Didn't Woosha say on TFS last night that the club couldn't do their own testing? They would have already done their own testing if they were allowed to.

Worsfold heard that a few players might be taking drugs and he asked them personally. What more can he do? He can't suspend them, the club can't give them a drug test, what can he do if they're turning up to training and doing everything which is asked of them?

Yes he did but I can’t see how that is truthful. What is to stop them doing tests even on a voluntary (by the players) basis. I’d bet anything they haven’t pursued that option. What is to stop them making it a contract stipulation?

Worsfold heard that a few players might be taking drugs and he asked them personally. What more can he do?

Every player is at every club at the discretion of the coach.

He can't suspend them, the club can't give them a drug test, what can he do if they're turning up to training and doing everything which is asked of them?

Firstly, they didn’t do everything asked them – on the track or off it. Even if they had, players get delisted for list balance, ability, attitude and harmony reasons all the time. The fact is practical football decisions were made. As it turns out it is hard to argue with the football decisions. They have just finished second and first in the last 2 years. The longer term ramifications are yet to be seen but the money is ion the bank so to speak.

 

[Eagle87]

The only problem with that is Woosh thought the players had lied to him, about their connections, about their drug taking etc.

Now to me this should've meant a stint at East Fremantle or a long term "injury".

With the benefit of hindsight, I agree with you, but what if the suspicions of being lied to were wrong?

I mean the blokes playing good footy, meeting all the clubs expectations re training and other committments and you are going to suspend him because "you think" he isnt being 100% honest with you?

Have you ever had employees? You wouldnt get very far running a business if you started sanctioning employees under suspicion of lying while they were perfoming at 100% requirements every day at work.

As reagrds Cousins getting special treatment regarding the Cup, I would have thought Woosha's motivation was pretty obvious. Woosha and Cousins are two of the greatest figures in our clubs history. Woosha is a great bloke and a guy you would want standing with you in the trenches. His best performer over the 5 years he has been coach - the guy who he has relied on more than most is going through some problems (self-inflicted but still real life, tough problems) and what better way (in Wooshas mind) to give the guy a boost than to give him that moment??

Of course the bitter, the twisted, the cynical will just say its cos Woosha doesnt care about players abusing themselves, he is just about winning.

Anyone who saw last nights interview (even more so for those who have known Woosh for 20+ years) and reckons the cynics are right really needs to go and get some professional help. You'll start enjoying life again.

 

[plugger47]

Didn't Woosha say on TFS last night that the club couldn't do their own testing? They would have already done their own testing if they were allowed to.

Worsfold heard that a few players might be taking drugs and he asked them personally. What more can he do? He can't suspend them, the club can't give them a drug test, what can he do if they're turning up to training and doing everything which is asked of them?

He can investigate, analyse and determine the situation. Cop to drug dealer/user - "You dealing the gear sunshine." Punter replies: "no sir". Cop "OK son I believe you because one of the characteristics of drug addicts and users of illicit drugs is that always reply truthfully when questioned about their habit." Yep works a treat. By the way unless there is a specific term in the players contract prohibiting the employer requiring a player to take a test at the direction of the employer (and if there is one the management need a boot up the arse), the employer under sufficient circumstances could require a test.

 

[Eagle87]

I would have thought a pharmacist might be able to identify some signs and symptoms of drug abuse - behaviours, appearance and other side effects. Mate, Woosha didn't want to know and turned a blind eye. He is an unethical chancer who puts winning above all else. All the rest - excuses, finger pointing and buck passing is covering his well paid arse.
The clubs have considerable contractual rights if they want to use them. They could do their own testing if they wanted to ffs. If a identified on reasonable grounds for testing refused they could terminate the contract. There is circumstantial and tendency evidence in proof. Crikey is the stringent standards of proof used by the WC we applied in the criminal justice system there would be very few people in jail.

Woosha is trained as a pharmacist. He worked in a pharmacy for a year or two in the late 80's or early 90's. How does that make him more qualified than the average clubber to note the effects of drug use?

Having said that, he had his suspicions and confronted the players who said they werent doing that. What exactly should he have done at that point?

You are just a hater (in general and of the Eagles)....

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

Yes its zero tolerance for the Bloods. And they know it. And the commercial realities of sponsorship and the fierce competition amongst the football codes in NSW means that the club could and should enforce it. You have no idea the damage that the WC implosion is doing to the marketability of the code in NSW. And if you don't care the AFL should. Moneybags should get off his vastly over paid arse and do what he is paid an obsecene amount of moola to do - fix it.

What don't I care about plugger? How many times do opposition supporters have to use the tired old comeback that Eagles fans have their heads buried in the sand blah blah blah, everytime we make a comment that doesn't include the death penalty for Cousins, Worsfold and the entire WCE board?

No I am not up to speed with the impact this fiasco is having on the code in NSW, I live in Melbourne. If you are capable of having a rational conversation and can take off your Eagles hating glasses for a second I would be genuinely interested to hear what effect it is having up there. I am surprised to hear it's having an effect to be honest, as rugby league's behaviour record of late hasn't been exactly stellar either.

 

[Eagle87]

He can investigate, analyse and determine the situation. Cop to drug dealer/user - "You dealing the gear sunshine." Punter replies: "no sir". Cop "OK son I believe you because one of the characteristics of drug addicts and users of illicit drugs is that always reply truthfully when questioned about their habit." Yep works a treat. By the way unless there is a specific term in the players contract prohibiting the employer requiring a player to take a test at the direction of the employer (and if there is one the management need a boot up the arse), the employer under sufficient circumstances could require a test.

Mods - please feel free to PM me and I will advise you how little this guy knows about employment law and in particular its application within the AFL.

Plugger give up on the amateur hour legalise unless (as requested yesterday) you are prepared to argue the issue to its absolute conclusion. Spouting off about technically applicable concepts and possible actions does nothing to prove anything - just that you have no capacity whatsoever to think things through to a logical conclusion. You are using Year 1 Uni level legal thinking to add weight to what remains nothing more than an opportunity to troll West Coast.

Seriously mate, I await your report on what would happen to AFL player contracts and relations with the AFLPA if clubs started running their own targetted drug tests against players wishes and started suspending players for failure to release (publicly and to the club) their private medical records (yesterdays issue). I mean what would be the end point of such decisions by clubs?

 

[plugger47]

There's no point arguing with Plugger. It's obvious he's still hurting from the GF.

1 point. Ouch!

No bozo I'm angry about next week. Instead of great promotion of a wonderful spectacle showcasing the great game in the huge NSW market, we will have your dysfunbctional disgraceful mob met by sniffer dogs, the hyenias of the media (most of it owned by the Dirty Digger who owns most of Rugby League) and a hugely damaging overshadowing of the footy. AFL would have taken another giant step forward over here but for the WC management who couldn't organise a root in a knock shop. And not being a bandwagoner, but a Bloods supporter of many years standing (still standing actually) who followed the Bloods and the code through the days when there was a man and a dog at AFL matches in Sydney, endured all the jokes (arial ping pong, ****tas game etc.) I have been chuffed to see not just the Bloods but the best bloody football game in the world make inroads against thugby league and the game the silvertails play in private school. And next week should have been a tremendous triumph for the game whoever won. But your arse clowns, instead of being treated as the reigning premiers with all the respect that deserves, will be Exhibit A in a media circus playing the game of "pick the druggie". Angry doesn't describe it Mr Magoo.
Contempt is closer.

 

[Eagle87]

Yes its zero tolerance for the Bloods. And they know it. And the commercial realities of sponsorship and the fierce competition amongst the football codes in NSW means that the club could and should enforce it. You have no idea the damage that the WC implosion is doing to the marketability of the code in NSW. And if you don't care the AFL should. Moneybags should get off his vastly over paid arse and do what he is paid an obsecene amount of moola to do - fix it.

Bwahahahahaha.....

Implosion is it?

One bloke has been suspended to sort himself out and we remain the reigning premiers and the most profitable club in the land. This is an implosion?

But you arent trolling, just deeply concerned for the good of the code nationally and in particular in NSW...

 

[sharpie]

Whilst I agree that Worsfold was relatively impressive and performed well he was in a relatively friendly environment, there were many questions left unanswered and others not followed up. The questions were more "Australian Story" than "4 Corners".

Bryan Cousins was the impressive, courageous individual on the show tonight. In his statement he made the valid point that there are many families around the country going through this not just his, but his concern was for his boy. He appeared to be addressing Ben directly at one point.

Interesting juxtaposition by The Footy Show to have INXS on. Many of its band members, including it's deceased ex lead singer have admitted to taking drugs. I wonder how many of those in the audience, watching on tv, reading these boards that are prepared to berate footballers for taking drugs yet applaud a rock band (not just INXS) even though they know the band members use drugs, go and buy their cds and/or pay hundreds of dollars to watch them in concert.

mate - if Worsfold was to anser every question - he'd still be going

when was the last time a serious interview for 40 minutes on the footy show was held?

 

[Dusky]

Plugger, take your rants to the bay seeing as you'll be in there all next week after our clash anyway.

 

[Eagle87]

No bozo I'm angry about next week. Instead of great promotion of a wonderful spectacle showcasing the great game in the huge NSW market, we will have your dysfunbctional disgraceful mob met by sniffer dogs, the hyenias of the media (most of it owned by the Dirty Digger who owns most of Rugby League) and a hugely damaging overshadowing of the footy. AFL would have taken another giant step forward over here but for the WC management who couldn't organise a root in a knock shop. And not being a bandwagoner, but a Bloods supporter of many years standing (still standing actually) who followed the Bloods and the code through the days when there was a man and a dog at AFL matches in Sydney, endured all the jokes (arial ping pong, ****tas game etc.) I have been chuffed to see not just the Bloods but the best bloody football game in the world make inroads against thugby league and the game the silvertails play in private school. And next week should have been a tremendous triumph for the game whoever won. But your arse clowns, instead of being treated as the reigning premiers with all the respect that deserves, will be Exhibit A in a media circus playing the game of "pick the druggie". Angry doesn't describe it Mr Magoo.
Contempt is closer.

Your outrage, even your contempt is duly noted.

One only hopes that the code of AFL can somehow survive the scandal and that some folks might still turn up to the game next week despite the failings of our disgraceful club.



But who are these "Bloods" of who you speak? I went to the AFL website and then googled but could find no such club. Perhaps you could instead follow the local side the Sydney Swans? I have heard that they have roots to a former side based in Melbourne and one of the issues for the local marketers is trying to ensure that Sydneysiders wholly identify with this team as a SYDNEY team and not some transplanted Melbourne club. Perhaps you could help with that - certainly wouldnt want to be harking back to the olde days and alienating the locals - that would be outrageous, a travesty, something that could hold the codes development back in its (potentially) biggest market.

 

[plugger47]

Mods - please feel free to PM me and I will advise you how little this guy knows about employment law and in particular its application within the AFL.

Plugger give up on the amateur hour legalise unless (as requested yesterday) you are prepared to argue the issue to its absolute conclusion. Spouting off about technically applicable concepts and possible actions does nothing to prove anything - just that you have no capacity whatsoever to think things through to a logical conclusion. You are using Year 1 Uni level legal thinking to add weight to what remains nothing more than an opportunity to troll West Coast.

Seriously mate, I await your report on what would happen to AFL player contracts and relations with the AFLPA if clubs started running their own targetted drug tests against players wishes and started suspending players for failure to release (publicly and to the club) their private medical records (yesterdays issue). I mean what would be the end point of such decisions by clubs?

I am writing a submission (paid work actually) and don't have time at the moment to give you a primer in employment law. Why don't you investigate the law of employment contracts before you post? Actually doing some research before pontificating and pronouncing ex cathedra might be a novel approach. Did you actually read Hollingsworth? And I am really getting tired of explaining that there is no such thing as "private" medical records. And I hope you get over that eye problem as well.