WWE on the downhill

[Phillip Matera]

I wanted to make this thread about how WWE is at the moment with the young wrestler's there bringing in, I've been a fan of WWF/WWE since the early 90s and have become bored of late with the new breed of wrestlers that are coming in. What ever happen to the WWE. They had a bucket load of stars from Austin, Rock, Mankind, Shawn Michaels, HHH, Undertaker, Bret Hart, Kane, the corporation, DX with road dogg, billy gun, x pac, Cristian and Edge and Chris Jericho and more

Now we have John Cena who has horrible wrestling skills and seems to have a cockie fake annoying personality. Shermus-fake

Randy Orton is the best of the new generation but is not that good, I wouldn't put Randy in the Rock, Austin HBK group

WWE need's to find a new star with charisma up there like HBK, Austin, the Rock that's good on the mic, or it will fade very quickly and banning head shots and blood only makes it more quickly.
what do you think

 

[Upgrayedd]

Wrestlers are not the problem, its the product they are pushing and the Type of audience they are trying to capture.

The Mic problem is that not too many wrestlers are allowed to cut promo's and show personality, its usually scrpited word for word and it sounds like they are all done by one guy.

 

[Crosby87]

Where to begin...

The product is incredibly stale. Both in the ring, and of course, the PG bullshit outside of it isn't better.

It's the same guys at the top all the time. They build up Sheamus, and bury him. HHH has a chance to put him over huge - and he doesn't.

They try and build up DiBiase and Rhodes... they end up having Randy kill him. There's rumours of DiBiase bringing in his brother and Joe Hennig to start another stable, but, really, nobody cares about DiBiase after the Orton program. Sure, it got Randy over as a face... but you bury two young guys in the process? Idiotic.

They build up Kofi, and he makes one mistake, and they bury him as punishment. (Botched Randy's RKO and Orton cracked the shits.)

They put the title on Swagger OUT OF NOWHERE, after jobbing him out for months. Nobody will take him seriously as a World Champion, and he'll be back to midcard status in three months, purely based on form.

The WWE/World Titles are meaningless anyway, as they're traded around the same main guys all the time.

They pushed MVP, and look where he is now. Morrison's heading that way. They create great heel characters then.... turn them face WAY too soon, and it doesn't translate. The problem is, they have all these Hollywood writers who come up with generic gimmicks with no substance, scrip all the promos, and they just fail miserably. Austin, Rock, Foley, Cena... all those guys got over by being sensationalised versions of themselves. Batista and Punk are doing that thing now, and getting over as heels doing it. Look at Edge and Jericho - fabulous as heels, but when Jericho came back as a face, he bombed. Edge as a face? Nobody is buying it.

Mysterio is over as a face because he wears a mask and does cool flips, and the kids really dig it. Cena, well, he comes out and does the whole "champ is here" and yells a lot and does the same 5 moves and the kids buy it. Triple H... he's only ever worked as a face in recent years due to DX and the comedy skits. It's no secret he's wanted to turn heel for about two years now.

The NXT concept was a novel idea - except they completely ****ed it up by just basically turning into ECW with guys that are still incredibly green. The one guy who's not, and they bury him by not giving him a win, and seemingly (for now) scrapping what was turning into a great feud.

They had a great thing going with Punk as champ, he ****ed up a bit, and they de-pushed him. Fortunately CM Punk has probably saved himself with the SES stuff, which is just what he did in the indies (pretty much) anyway.

But the thing is, they hold all the cards. There's just no reason (for now) to play them, yet. If TNA ever became a threat, then bam, they'd scrap the PG stuff, they'd turn Cena heel, they'd get rid of the guest hosting, they'd focus more on their in ring stuff, and they'd push newer guys.

Just look at who headlined WrestleMania - Undertaker and Shawn Michaels. One guy retired (for now) and one guy not long retired.

But, as long as they're rating and making money, Vince just doesn't care. He doesn't even consider his business "wrestling" anymore - it's all entertainment.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

The Miz is someone who has that old fashioned cockiness with humour that I used to enjoy back in the day.

Cm Punk and Edge are ok.

Hate Rey Mysterio with a passion, Cena makes me wanna sleep.

I think a factor in it sucking these days is because when you would have people like Curt Hennig or later The Rock cut a promo they would add humour in it even if they were trying to be angry and pissed.

Now they just seem to come out and put over im mean and angry which adds to the lameness of it.

To make it good again they need to stop scripting it so everyone takes themselves too seriously.

Shawn Micahels was always best when he played a cocky goof who took the piss out of everyone.

Need mroe of that brought back.

 

[NitroFan]

they'd focus more on their in ring stuff

I'd like to know what you base this on.

The last time they had real competition was an awful period for the actual wrestling. Not before or since has the in ring stuff taken more of a back seat than it did during the Attitude Era.

 

[Crosby87]

In terms of booking.

The WWE style has never been the greatest, that's a given. But the way they book finishes now, and overall planning of spots, is so predictable it's not even funny.

Post-Attitude was when they were on in terms of an in-ring product. 2000-2001. Sure, it wasn't great ALL THE TIME, but it wasn't horrible. And this is horrible.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

WWE isn't wrestling anymore, it's 'Entertainment'

 

[Upgrayedd]

Crosby is on the money

Best characters are based on the wrestlers themselves, look at Cm Punk, Steve Austin,.

The writing is incredibly stale, which is unfortunate because the greatest wrestlers on earth and restricted to 4 moves and boring matches.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

They need to give wrestlers more independence on the mic and as others have said need to properly push wrestlers instead of having them get jobbed.

TV-PG certainly doesn't help either. The best writers in the world (which WWE will never have because they don't employ WGA talent) can't do much with such a limitation.

 

[worthy]

WWE is on a bit of a slide ATM, it is partly due to some of the reasons mentioned, but moreso due to a changing of the guard, the problem is this new guard doesn't have any "franchise" wrestlers, there's no Austin or Rock comming through and the old guard is getting tired and tiresome.
There needs to be more interest in mid carders, punk, MVP and the likes, these guys are not credible Heavyweight champions, bring back the Intercontinental championship and make it work for these guys.
Do something with the tag Team division.

 

[jackcbus]

Scrap the two "brands" nonsense. It means nothing anymore.

Unify the two world titles and give them some value again by not putting them on every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Unify the IC and US titles and make this a mid-card title with some value.

Create some SUBSTANCE for feuds. What they are doing now is so boring I want to gouge my eyes out. Everything is always about titles...create some "real", personal rivalries. The story-telling has all but gone from the 2010 WWE.

Whatever happened to managers? Bring back some managers to add some ringside flare! This would be a great spot for Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels to help push young wrestlers.

Re-creates the tag team division. A current team with Sheamus and Finlay would be awesome! It would be great for both guys. There are many other up and coming stars who would benefit from being paired in teams with veterans.

MOST IMPORTANT: Force the veterans to put some young talent over! These guys who have been around for a while seem desperate to hold onto the glory by keeping new talent down. Their selfish attitudes are holding the next generation back.

 

[r dub 19]

Randy will be carrying the company for years.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Terrible writing is why WWE seems so stale these days

 

[Damon_3388]

Sheamus' promo on Raw this week was good, but then of course Triple H had to come in and just totally own him two seconds later. I know you can go back and forth to build up a feud, but when Triple H gets the upper hand in a feud, it's always too conclusive and makes his opponent look too weak.

And as much as I don't like Jack Swagger (and I do like Randy Orton), having Swagger pinned cleanly in the middle of the ring in his first match as World Heavyweight Champion was a poor booking decision too IMO.

 

[Chops18]

Scrap the two "brands" nonsense. It means nothing anymore.

Unify the two world titles and give them some value again by not putting them on every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Unify the IC and US titles and make this a mid-card title with some value.

Create some SUBSTANCE for feuds. What they are doing now is so boring I want to gouge my eyes out. Everything is always about titles...create some "real", personal rivalries. The story-telling has all but gone from the 2010 WWE.

Whatever happened to managers? Bring back some managers to add some ringside flare! This would be a great spot for Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels to help push young wrestlers.

Re-creates the tag team division. A current team with Sheamus and Finlay would be awesome! It would be great for both guys. There are many other up and coming stars who would benefit from being paired in teams with veterans.

MOST IMPORTANT: Force the veterans to put some young talent over! These guys who have been around for a while seem desperate to hold onto the glory by keeping new talent down. Their selfish attitudes are holding the next generation back.

I would also re-create the cruiserweight title no point in guys like Bourne, Chavo etc etc in the business otherwise.

 

[Damon_3388]

I would also re-create the cruiserweight title no point in guys like Bourne, Chavo etc etc in the business otherwise.

If they ever do bring back the Cruiserweight Championship (and I doubt that they will), they need to treat it with the same importance as the World Heavyweight Championship. If WWE wants any sense of realism in an age of massive MMA popularity, it's only logical that the smaller wrestlers should have their own weight division and championship.

The main knock many wrestling haters have on WWE (and pro wrestling in general) is the lack of realism, so making things a bit more realistic and true-to-life (while not taking away too much of what makes pro wrestling special) might create more interest in the product.

 

[FootyJunkie]

i miss backstage brawls, even if it was between 2 midcarders you couldn't give a stuff about... it was still fun to watch them throw eachother around walls and tables with stuff flying all over the place and the poor refs/officials trying to sustain order

oh, and stables, bring back the gang wars and the drama of so and so joining/leaving/screwing over a group

i also think they should have kept the ECW Title... used as a relic of the old company and a legit title that could be won/defended, make it a hybrid mid-card/world title

 

[NitroFan]

But, as long as they're rating and making money, Vince just doesn't care. He doesn't even consider his business "wrestling" anymore - it's all entertainment.

WWE isn't wrestling anymore, it's 'Entertainment'

"anymore"? Vince has never considered it wrestling, and aside from a brief period here and there, possibly when he was in a coked out daze, the product has always reflected that, and often much more than it does today. He has always had a desire to lose the "redneck filled smokey arena " stigma that came with wrestling and be seen as a legitimate form of entertainment for the masses.

And this is horrible.

Not really. 93-95 is horrible. 98-99 is horrible. Compared to that this is like a golden era, especially for wrestling on TV.

Threads like this make me laugh though. The exact same things have been said for years, and they'll probably still be being said in years to come.

 

[Damon_3388]

Not really. 93-95 is horrible. 98-99 is horrible. Compared to that this is like a golden era, especially for wrestling on TV.

Despite the stupid gimmicks and atmosphere of the shows, there were some great wrestling contests on WWE cards during 1993-95. When I began watching wrestling in 1998, that's what got me interested - tapes of PPVs from that era.

There were some pretty entertaining contests that happened during 1998-99 as well, but they were far more brawling-based.

 

[Crosby87]

Not really. 93-95 is horrible. 98-99 is horrible. Compared to that this is like a golden era, especially for wrestling on TV.

Golden era? Wow.

As bad as you must think 98-99 was, business was far better than for WWE than it is now. The reason they do as well as they do now is that they're the only game in town (pretty much).

In 98-99 wrestling was mainstream. Now, it's not, as much as WWE wants to tell you it is, it's just not. UFC is more mainstream than they are, and that's saying something.

 

[Phillip Matera]

"

Not really. 93-95 is horrible. 98-99 is horrible. Compared to that this is like a golden era, especially for wrestling on TV.

Threads like this make me laugh though. The exact same things have been said for years, and they'll probably still be being said in years to come.

WTF, You obviously never watch WWF in the 90s did you.
Don't know how you can say this is a golden era.
WWE is in a crisis era, What's going to happen when Undertaker retires, they will replace him with one of the wwe nxt wrestlers- that's laughable.

 

[Bretski]

I haven't watched wrestling for a a year or so, but I do remember people were talking about WWE in the downhill in 2002 as well and so forth.

 

[Phillip Matera]

I haven't watched wrestling for a a year or so, but I do remember people were talking about WWE in the downhill in 2002 as well and so forth.

yeah well I agree, 2002 was the start of the turning for wwe. About when Austin and The Rock retired, really left a hole in wwe. But its not only the retiring of great wrestlers, its the fact that it's became very scripted and fake is why its on the downhill. But its nothing new, as you said its been going like this since 2002 but now its even worse.

 

[Cleavy]

so pretty much after the Invasion tanked...

 

[NitroFan]

93-95 did have some great matches, but on a whole the cards were mostly dreadful and make todays WWE look like 1995 AJPW.

Golden era? Wow.

As bad as you must think 98-99 was, business was far better than for WWE than it is now. The reason they do as well as they do now is that they're the only game in town (pretty much).

In 98-99 wrestling was mainstream. Now, it's not, as much as WWE wants to tell you it is, it's just not. UFC is more mainstream than they are, and that's saying something.

WTF, You obviously never watch WWF in the 90s did you.
Don't know how you can say this is a golden era.
WWE is in a crisis era, What's going to happen when Undertaker retires, they will replace him with one of the wwe nxt wrestlers- that's laughable.

I was refering specifically to the in ring product. And I didn't say it is a golden era. I said it looks like one compared to those two periods which are a couple of the worst for the in ring product since the national expansion.

Watched plenty of wrestling in the 90's thanks, and not just WWF. I've also watched a lot of full WWF shows in the last couple of years which is why I can put the rose coloured glasses aside.

They're not in a crisis era at all. 93-95 was a crisis era. The company was an inch away from death. These days they make millions of dollars per year, and it's going to take a lot more than any one wrestler leaving for that to change.