Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Rich01]

Yeah well there was pages of argument over it.

Don’t forget the Perth test. Visitors never struggle to get accomodation there either.

 

[kranky al]

The proof is in the pudding


Have non-vic sides won a share of grand finals in the past? Yes…

… but they’re mostly been won by non vic teams with lists built by list concessions they gained during entry to the league.

From memory that explains a large number of non-vic cup winners except Sydney west coast and Brisbanes recent wins and Sydney had cola and now a gun nga academy , west coast a financial powerhouse.


South Aussie teams make up 1/9th of the comp (at one stage it was 1/8th) and it’s been 20 years since an Sa team has won the cup.

Brisbanes last win was vs Sydney… the year before they lost to an mcg tenant

 

[kranky al]

Don’t forget the Perth test. Visitors never struggle to get accomodation there either.

There were people seriously suggesting that a gf in Perth with no Perth teams would be 2/3 empty….

 

[blue harvest]

In 1989 the Hawks played 1 game at the G compared with 8 for their GF opponent. Back then no one GAF.

 

[Rich01]

There were people seriously suggesting that a gf in Perth with no Perth teams would be 2/3 empty….

Don’t forget when the Americas cup was held out of Fremantle in 1987. A truly international event. Not one news article suggested that any visitor to WA for this event couldn’t find accomodation.

 

[sr36]

What exactly did they do apart from add a second team in each state?

Or are you going with ‘secret’ very convincing

I suspect they had their dates wrong and were talking about the inquiry in 2006.

They brought in the cap on footy department spend to even things up as Collingwood, WCE, Sydney and Adelaide were spending and were able to spend a heap more than the rest of the comp on their footy departments.

 

[sr36]

In 1989 the Hawks played 1 game at the G compared with 8 for their GF opponent. Back then no one GAF.

Yep. When a non-Vic team matches Collingwood and gets to 7 flags lost to MCG home ground teams, whilst not being one - I might have some sympathy - but I probably won't - we didn't complain as it's the best place for the GF to be played for historically romantic, practical and financial reasons - always has been and I doubt that'll change.

 

[blue harvest]

South Aussie teams make up 1/9th of the comp (at one stage it was 1/8th) and it’s been 20 years since an Sa team has won the cup.

One of them keeps losing hone finals.

 

[kranky al]

Don’t forget when the Americas cup was held out of Fremantle in 1987. A truly international event. Not one news article suggested that any visitor to WA for this event couldn’t find accomodation.

We had the commonwealth games in the early 60’s…

 

[kranky al]

In 1989 the Hawks played 1 game at the G compared with 8 for their GF opponent. Back then no one GAF.

How far did they travel, did they sleep in their own beds, cross any time lines?

These things are not the same….

 

[sr36]

How far did they travel, did they sleep in their own beds, cross any time lines?

These things are not the same….

You just took a fair while to put together your stats for teams (regardless of state) that had won the GF after playing more games at the MCG that year - assumedly because the 8-8 stats for vic versus non-vic in GFs weren't quite what you were looking for.

 

[VicBased]

What exactly did they do apart from add a second team in each state?

Or are you going with ‘secret’ very convincing

Mate, I said mate, there is reams of info on google, knock yourself out.

 

[kranky al]

You just took a fair while to put together your stats for teams (regardless of state) that had won the GF after playing more games at the MCG that year - assumedly because the 8-8 stats for vic versus non-vic in GFs weren't quite what you were looking for.

Well yes, equating a non mcg tenant playing an interstate team isn’t the same thing. In 1994 the eagles had played 1 more game than geelong at the g. 5v4. Feelings gone ground in case you weren’t aware, is about 100km away from the MCG.

Teams such as st kilda are disadvantaged playing both finals and gf’s at the g when they rarely get games there.

Very good chance the Ross Lyon coached saints would have another flag or two had they played finals and gf’s at their own ground.

(Hmmm Ross Lyon footy winning gf’s puts a dirty taste in my mouth thanks for nothing sr36 )

 

[SC_Power]

Hey, can anyone give me a valid reason why the Freo v Syd thriller has a “Last Two Minutes” vid on the AFL website already, yet the Footscray v Collingwood thriller doesn’t?

Didn’t anything happen notable in those last two minutes that could make it worthy of a viewing? No controversial decisions or anything? Feel free to post me a link if it’s out there somewhere, I can’t find it.

I’m confident it wasn’t just omitted because of the club(s) involved.

 

[blue harvest]

In 1988 Hawks played a G tenant in the GF who had played there 13 times. Back then no one GAF.

 

[sr36]

Well yes, equating a non mcg tenant playing an interstate team isn’t the same thing. In 1994 the eagles had played 1 more game than geelong at the g. 5v4. Feelings gone ground in case you weren’t aware, is about 100km away from the MCG.

Teams such as st kilda are disadvantaged playing both finals and gf’s at the g when they rarely get games there.

Very good chance the Ross Lyon coached saints would have another flag or two had they played finals and gf’s at their own ground.

(Hmmm Ross Lyon footy winning gf’s puts a dirty taste in my mouth thanks for nothing sr36 )

Yet you're also going with this:

How far did they travel, did they sleep in their own beds, cross any time lines?

The current lease will have well and truly run out before any non-vic club matches the amount of Grand Finals Collingwood have lost to MCG tenants before we were one ourselves. But they all should have been played there. It's clearly the best venue in the comp for the Grand Final and always has been. I'm sure some would have loved the Granny to be at Vic Park, but no one was ridiculous enough to actually advocate for it.

 

[jdisc]

"perth can't pack out optus"

my brother in christ i've seen the MCG host more seagulls than fans on several occasions

 

[blue harvest]

No doubt you have some statistics to back this up.

Such as teams that get lots of mcg games vs teams that don’t on gf day?

And a set of statistics proving that non vic teams get a leg up from playing an equal amount of home games as away - of course you will have adjusted those stats to allow for the crippling punishment Carlton got from salary cap cheating that sent them into the doldrums for over a decade as well as the Essendon drug scandal.

I’ll be fascinated to see your workings…..


Oh and because I’m such a helpful fellow - here’s the stats between teams with more mcg experience than others:


Grand final venues played vs winners



Every gf since 1990 with games played at the gf venue excluding 2020/2021.



winner listed first



1990 - coll 3 Ess 4

1991 - haw 10 Wc 3*#

1992 - wc 3 Gee 5

1993 - ess 13 Car 7*

1994 - wc 5 Gee 4

1995 - car 8 Gee 5*

1996 - nm 14 Syd 2 *#

1997 - ad 2 St k 3

1998 - ad 3 Nm 12

1999 - nm 13 Car 9*

2000 - ess 9 mel 10

2001 - bri 2 Ess 9

2002 - bri 1 Coll 12

2003 - bri 2 Coll 11

2004 - pa 3 bri 2

2005 - syd 2 Wc 4

2006 - wc 2 Syd 2

2007 - gee 2 port 3

2008 - haw 10 gee 4*#

2009 - gee 5 st k 1*#

2010 - coll 14 St k 2*

2011 - gee 6 Coll 14

2012 - syd 1 Haw 13

2013 - haw 9 fre 2 *

2014 - haw 11 Syd 3*

2015 - haw 9 wc 1*

2016 - wb 2 Syd 2

2017 - rich 11 Ade 3*

2018 - wc 2 Coll 15

2019 - rich 13 Gia 3 *

2022 - gee 5 Syd 2 *

2023 - coll 14 bris 2

2024 - bris 2 syd 3



Ok how this for some substantive stats.



Every gf since 1990 with games played at the venue excluding 2020/2021.



i count 16-7 in favour of teams whove played 3 or more games more than the opposition at the mcg (and waverly in 1991)

So the Cats pants the Swans because they've played 3 more games at the G, but 2 years later the Swans get pantsed again by the Lions? Maybe it's the Swans that are the problem rather than the G.

 

[kranky al]

So the Cats pants the Swans because they've played 3 more games at the G, but 2 years later the Swans get pantsed again by the Lions? Maybe it's the Swans that are the problem rather than the G.

Yeah you are probably right all all the thousands of studies on home ground advantage are wrong.

 

[kranky al]

Yet you're also going with this:

How far did they travel, did they sleep in their own beds, cross any time lines?

The current lease will have well and truly run out before any non-vic club matches the amount of Grand Finals Collingwood have lost to MCG tenants before we were one ourselves. But they all should have been played there. It's clearly the best venue in the comp for the Grand Final and always has been. I'm sure some would have loved the Granny to be at Vic Park, but no one was ridiculous enough to actually advocate for it.

Same as subi….

Of course this is in state based comp - and we all played lots of games at the venue, didn’t have to travel or cross time zones.

Now it’s a national comp….

 

[doppleganger]

Yeah you are probably right all all the thousands of studies on home ground advantage are wrong.

Home ground advantage exists when teams don't travel or sleep in hotels.

You don't get home ground advantage when you aren't playing at your home ground.

 

[sr36]

Same as subi….

Of course this is in state based comp - and we all played lots of games at the venue, didn’t have to travel or cross time zones.

Now it’s a national comp….

Does a National Comp mean the Grand Final gets played at less appropriate venues? Seems a bit odd to me.

 

[blue harvest]

Of course this is in state based comp - and we all played lots of games at the venue,

No we didn't. Did you read my posts? Hawks played 1 game at the G in 89 compared with 8 for our opponent.. 3 in 88 compared with 13 for our opponent. No one GAF back then, these days everything is some one's fault.

 

[sr36]

No we didn't. Did you read my posts? Hawks played 1 game at the G in 89 compared with 8 for our opponent.. 3 in 88 compared with 13 for our opponent. No one GAF back then, these days everything is some one's fault.

Times have changed. We accepted defeat and weren't a bunch of sooks looking for excuses.

 

[doppleganger]

Does a National Comp mean the Grand Final gets played at less appropriate venues? Seems a bit odd to me.

Exactly.

Local comp, State based comp, or National Comp - the GF was never at the home ground of the "highest ranked team" it was always at the most suitable venue that allowed most fans to attend.

In the WAFL that was Subiaco

In the AFL that is the MCG