Review Round 10, 2022 - Hawthorn vs. Brisbane Lions

[p4p1]

It's clear we are missing a good big bodied midfielder IMO. We were hoping CEY would fill that gap but it didn't work out that way. Dan McStay covers a huge amount of ground and has been in our top 5 for that category previously. I think it's worth chucking him in the middle for a game or even for a quarter and seeing what happens. He's a great athlete and the upside if it works is huge IMO. It then allows Fagan to continue to play Fort and Oscar with one of them resting up forward so we aren't to tall in the forward line but can still stretch defences with our height.

I would just love to see Fagan trying more things out. If they don't work then revert back to what was working but I can't see us winning a premiership with our shortcomings in the middle. In days gone by we saw Browny and Pav etc have runs in the middle, so why not try it with McStay. Of our KPP I think he is the one most likely to do well in the middle.

 

[McIvor]

Lol explaining my opinion is the while point in being in a discussion forum.

Excuse me. You spoke down to me b/c my opinion about the team being arrogant on occasions was wrong, told me to watch frisbee, turn off AFL and stop being angry. That's some opinion without any meaningful discussion and basically telling me I have no clue. Pretty much sums up man-splainer. I best go do the housework and keep off this forum then.

 

[p4p1]

It looks that way but I think it's more we back in our players ,structures and systems. So when it isn't working out we look slow and slow to react. If the 100% effort isn't there on occasions that's how you look.

It's hard to know what changes we could've swung yesterday except to demand more effort and more precision and depth with our forward entries, less sloppiness in the backline , harder running from the M/F.

I think great coaches can make moves that work on the fly. Mitchell IMO did some of that yesterday and has been able to previously. There's no point in bringing up moves during games of yesteryear because the game has changed so much in the last decade and a half or so but there does not seem to be, at least from the outside looking in much done when plan A isn't working perfectly.
I understand what you're saying about trusting the system and players but sometimes you get bad match ups for both the systems and/or the players and need to be able to make changes on the fly that involves playing guys out of there normal positions. Fages did it with Rayner when he played him as a permenant marking forward after the Daniher injury but that just kept the system (which was working) rather than making some strategic changes to suit the players on the ground at the time.

 

[p4p1]

I think people hold on to one or two mistakes a player makes then everytime after that if the player isn’t perfect it stands out to them. After watching the game back a lot of guys didn’t play well but nobody was a liability. Hipwood was really quiet which is to be expected not just because it’s his second game back but also he’s been thrown into the number 1 forward role and had Sicily on him all game. Bailey has copped a lot of stick and while he was poor compared to his usual standards he still looked really dangerous and 8 times out of 10 would’ve won us that game. Linc and Gardiner are the two that have really frustrated me lately above anyone else, if Lohman was available I’d seriously consider him in ahead of Linc and I’m at the point where I believe Payne will helps us not only in the future but right now as well if he was picked before Gardiner.

I think this is a pretty fair assessment.
With Hippy his strength has never been as a great pack mark, it's been as a 6'8 forward who is ridiculously mobile for his size. Similar to Buddy, though obviously he isn't as good as Buddy, but when you kick a bunch of high kicks to packs for him, it shouldn't come as a surprise that he doesn't take 10 marks and kick 5.

 

[Fizzer Kellity]

Coach votes

 

[spotthedog1]

Well, it is your problem to own. Brisbane conceded a huge number of dumb free kicks. Lions fans in this thread have even admitted that and said the Hawks outplayed your boys on the day. The Lions lost the game and missed the chance to go 4 points clear into second place on the ladder. They shot themselves in the foot. I actually take Fagan's words at face value and think he was sending a message to his players to keep their heads screwed on and to be more disciplined in future.

There were some howlers awarded (and not awarded) by the umpires, but this went both ways. e.g. I thought the most ridiculous free kick was Tom Mitchell being penalised for a push in the back well after the whistle for a boundary throw-in and play had stopped. What the hell was that?!? Fullerton kicked the goal and put you blokes back in front in the last quarter.

As for Fagan being "very clever" about the way he handled the issue, that depends on what your priorities are. I know you think he's playing funny buggers; that he's artfully blaming the umpires for the loss because that's what you want to believe, but I don't think Fagan is wired that way at all. He is not one to make excuses and look for alibis. He wants to get the best out of his players and have them challenge for the flag. That's his sole focus. But the Lions won't improve upon their poor finals record of recent years with slack performances like they showed yesterday.

Really, the four premiership points were there for the taking. I think that was Fagan's frustration. Sure, some overzealous umpiring.. But to play so poorly; to concede so many goals from free kicks; to throw away a handy head and to lose to a struggling young team by just 5 points. Imagine if Brisbane end up finishing 3rd this year behind Melbourne and Carlton and miss out on the chance to host two Gabba finals as a stepping stone to the Grand Final. Imagine if yesterday's loss ends being the difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd.

I personally don't think it will. You guys have a great side capable of going all the way and yesterday was just one of those off days which causes heartburn or ulcers for coaches of top 4 sides.

Enjoy the rest of the season. Hopefully a Melbourne v Brisbane Grand Final this year. That would be a fairytale match-up after the decade of pain for both clubs in the 2010's.

Pfft. No. I dont think it is our problem to own at all. The Hawks did score 9 goals from free kicks (that stat does include chains). I dont have a count for how many were legit or not, but a lot were not. I think it was 5 frees inside your F50, and 2 of them were quite clearly bad calls.

Saying Titch's free was the most contentious is blatantly wrong. He pushed him in the back, it's a free. After the ball is out is irrelevant. That decision isn't consistently paid, absolutely, but that wasn't top 5 howlers yesterday (against both teams). The umpiring was very poor in general, and that's frustrating. I dont think it unreasonable to say it favoured the Hawks either.

However, we as Brisbane fans shouldn't blame the umpires for the result, and we aren't. We lost that game, and if you leave yourself close enough in margin that the umpiring can impact the game, you only have yourself to blame. At the end of the day, we've been playing fairly slack footy for a while, it was bound to catch up with us.

 

[martinson]

Pfft. No. I dont think it is our problem to own at all. The Hawks did score 9 goals from free kicks (that stat does include chains). I dont have a count for how many were legit or not, but a lot were not. I think it was 5 frees inside your F50, and 2 of them were quite clearly bad calls.

Saying Titch's free was the most contentious is blatantly wrong. He pushed him in the back, it's a free. After the ball is out is irrelevant. That decision isn't consistently paid, absolutely, but that wasn't top 5 howlers yesterday (against both teams). The umpiring was very poor in general, and that's frustrating. I dont think it unreasonable to say it favoured the Hawks either.

However, we as Brisbane fans shouldn't blame the umpires for the result, and we aren't. We lost that game, and if you leave yourself close enough in margin that the umpiring can impact the game, you only have yourself to blame. At the end of the day, we've been playing fairly slack footy for a while, it was bound to catch up with us.

We looked like we just realised with 2 minutes to go we might lose.

I think it's time for a little shakeup. I'm not brimming with confidence against the Giants unless we treat them very seriously.

We've looked at the draw and all we can see is Melbourne. Sometimes it can get away from you.

 

[spotthedog1]

We looked like we just realised with 2 minutes to go we might lose.

I think it's time for a little shakeup. I'm not brimming with confidence against the Giants unless we treat them very seriously.

We've looked at the draw and all we can see is Melbourne. Sometimes it can get away from you.

Yep. We went hard at Sydney and Port, but otherwise it seems we have cruised through games without getting out of 3rd gear.

Hopefully it doesnt come back to bite us. Hopefully we turn up with effort for the big games. Hopefully we're building into the season, peaking at the right time. Hopefully.

I dont see free kick discipline to be a problem for us though - I think umpiring consistency has fallen even more, and is possibly the biggest problem in the league. All these rule changes are dumb, but I don't really care what rules are and aren't enforced by the umpires, as long as they're enforced consistently.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Watched bits hear and there on foxtel demand, geez harris and dizz were bad. Thinking and hoping Adams comes in for Gardiner and not Payne. Andrews playing as a 1 on 1 is not ideal. Fev is right. Bags for days if Andrews has to shut down a forward and not play semi loose.

 

[davemc_lions]

Yep. We went hard at Sydney and Port, but otherwise it seems we have cruised through games without getting out of 3rd gear.

Hopefully it doesnt come back to bite us. Hopefully we turn up with effort for the big games. Hopefully we're building into the season, peaking at the right time. Hopefully.

I dont see free kick discipline to be a problem for us though - I think umpiring consistency has fallen even more, and is possibly the biggest problem in the league. All these rule changes are dumb, but I don't really care what rules are and aren't enforced by the umpires, as long as they're enforced consistently.

We turned it on a few times so just thought we could win.
Hawks just played better and wanted it more.

Frees umps been really crap this year no idea why it dropped off so much.

 

[Lazza16]

We turned it on a few times so just thought we could win.
Hawks just played better and wanted it more.

Frees umps been really crap this year no idea why it dropped off so much.

Not just this year mmmm remember a game against the cats n dogs last season?

 

[LionsMaw]

Well, it is your problem to own. Brisbane conceded a huge number of dumb free kicks. Lions fans in this thread have even admitted that and said the Hawks outplayed your boys on the day. The Lions lost the game and missed the chance to go 4 points clear into second place on the ladder. They shot themselves in the foot. I actually take Fagan's words at face value and think he was sending a message to his players to keep their heads screwed on and to be more disciplined in future.

There were some howlers awarded (and not awarded) by the umpires, but this went both ways. e.g. I thought the most ridiculous free kick was Tom Mitchell being penalised for a push in the back well after the whistle for a boundary throw-in and play had stopped. What the hell was that?!? Fullerton kicked the goal and put you blokes back in front in the last quarter.

As for Fagan being "very clever" about the way he handled the issue, that depends on what your priorities are. I know you think he's playing funny buggers; that he's artfully blaming the umpires for the loss because that's what you want to believe, but I don't think Fagan is wired that way at all. He is not one to make excuses and look for alibis. He wants to get the best out of his players and have them challenge for the flag. That's his sole focus. But the Lions won't improve upon their poor finals record of recent years with slack performances like they showed yesterday.

Really, the four premiership points were there for the taking. I think that was Fagan's frustration. Sure, some overzealous umpiring.. But to play so poorly; to concede so many goals from free kicks; to throw away a handy head and to lose to a struggling young team by just 5 points. Imagine if Brisbane end up finishing 3rd this year behind Melbourne and Carlton and miss out on the chance to host two Gabba finals as a stepping stone to the Grand Final. Imagine if yesterday's loss ends being the difference between finishing 2nd and 3rd.

I personally don't think it will. You guys have a great side capable of going all the way and yesterday was just one of those off days which causes heartburn or ulcers for coaches of top 4 sides.

Enjoy the rest of the season. Hopefully a Melbourne v Brisbane Grand Final this year. That would be a fairytale match-up after the decade of pain for both clubs in the 2010's.

Those last sentences were a clever way to get the boot in on our board and have us put up with it

 

[Holy Rioli]

We play in Darwin next week, so that is 4 times in 11 rounds. We've also played every team in the top 8 already except Fremantle, so we've had a brutal draw early on.

Brisbane are my second team (I live just down the road from the Gabba). It's sad to see the thumbs down to my factual post that didn't criticise the Lions in anyway.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Those last sentences were a clever way to get the boot in on our board and have us put up with it

I thought it was a well thought out, fair and accurate post. If only all guest posters on this board were that well-considered.

 

[Ray Button]

Coach votes


View attachment 1407414

Not very often you see both coaches agree completely with the votes!

 

[martinson]

I think that besides Neale, Adams is our most important player.

It stood out like a sore thumb how much we missed him on Sunday. I can't see them getting some of those grabs in the forward 50 if he'd been there.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

We looked like we just realised with 2 minutes to go we might lose.

I think it's time for a little shakeup. I'm not brimming with confidence against the Giants unless we treat them very seriously.

We've looked at the draw and all we can see is Melbourne. Sometimes it can get away from you.

Had we took the game on 60 seconds earlier than we did, we would have won. Not even that if there was 30 seconds left on the clock at that last center bounce we would have likely won the game.The exact same thing happened against Geelong, we were too conservative and weren't aware of the urgency required to win the game until it was too late.

Frustrating but hopefully this was a lesson in humility, as weird as it sounds I think this was the kind of loss we needed to change the mindset and attitude of the playing group when it comes to these situations in games. I'm 99% sure the boys will bounce back with a win on Saturday at the Gabba.

 

[Viceregal]

Coach votes


View attachment 1407414

Ah that explains it - I was sure Sicily was playing for us during the game which is why we kept kicking it it him so often and so effectively ... must have been a jumper issue or something...

 

[martinson]

Ah that explains it - I was sure Sicily was playing for us during the game which is why we kept kicking it it him so often and so effectively ... must have been a jumper issue or something...

We should've put someone defensively on Sicily.

Pointless kicking it high to Hipwood and thinking he'd have any hope .

 

[Dalions]

 

[beardancer]

Geez he played well, He's going to be a big lump of a kid when he's grown up. He almost made himself a lock with that game.

 

[beardancer]

Just a couple of suggestions. It was very interesting watching Payne out on the wing, marking, tackling, running, kicking a goal. Is he a winger like that young fella that plays for Essendon??????

Suggestion 2, the forgotten man James Madden. His ability to sprint away from a contest is remarkable. He could be SO damaging running out of a center bounce towards goal....he'd be totally uncatchable. He knows how to tackle already. Could he be a match with an extractor like player like Lyons or Dev.

 

[On the quiet]

Just a couple of suggestions. It was very interesting watching Payne out on the wing, marking, tackling, running, kicking a goal. Is he a winger like that young fella that plays for Essendon??????

Suggestion 2, the forgotten man James Madden. His ability to sprint away from a contest is remarkable. He could be SO damaging running out of a center bounce towards goal....he'd be totally uncatchable. He knows how to tackle already. Could he be a match with an extractor like player like Lyons or Dev.

At 105kg Payne could not play wing for 4Q, he did play well that final Q, against Hawkes, so perhaps he could be used sparingly. Has the potential to be a good lock down defender or possibly a lead out type forward as he has good speed for a big bloke. Unfortunately not sure how long he is prepared to wait behind the current incumbents, none of them are too old, except arguably Adams who has not played a lot of games.

Prior deserves and should be supported to have a decent crack on the wing.

Madden is very fast, IMO just needs to improve his disposals but speed is a real asset.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Wing Attendance	Round 10	Hawthorn	University of Tasmania Stadium
Names	Q1​	Q2​	Q3​	Q4​	Total​	Percentage​
J.Berry	8​	6​	6​	3​	23​	32.39%​
Prior	8​	7​	6​	4​	25​	35.21%​
Ah Chee	6​	5​	4​	4​	19​	26.76%​
Payne				3​	3​	4.23%​
Zorko				1​	1​	1.41%​

Unfortunately missed about five attendances in the last quarter, what with us playing one of our players forward of the wing, rather than dead-centre, and some of the later coverage focusing on shots of the coaches right up until the moment the ball was bounced. I think two of those missed ones were possibly Payne but can't confirm it.

 

[briztoon]

Wing Attendance	Round 10	Hawthorn	University of Tasmania Stadium
Names	Q1​	Q2​	Q3​	Q4​	Total​	Percentage​
J.Berry	8​	6​	6​	3​	23​	32.39%​
Prior	8​	7​	6​	4​	25​	35.21%​
Ah Chee	6​	5​	4​	4​	19​	26.76%​
Payne				3​	3​	4.23%​
Zorko				1​	1​	1.41%​

Unfortunately missed about five attendances in the last quarter, what with us playing one of our players forward of the wing, rather than dead-centre, and some of the later coverage focusing on shots of the coaches right up until the moment the ball was bounced. I think two of those missed ones were possibly Payne but can't confirm it.

I really appreciate this work ZoBlitz. Do you know if any of Prior, Berry and Ah Chee are playing a secondary position at all?