List Mgmt. 2022 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals: Kinnear & Dalrymple - we march to no drum but our own!

[Ticky009]

 

[Tesla Tenet]

We have drafted Will Gould and Jack Maibaum and I can't remember any defender before that and both are undersized in general terms. We convert what we need.

TMac - forward
PMac - forward
Lloyd - mid
Florent - mid
Rampe - maybe general def
Blakey - mid/fwd
Fox - maybe general def/fwd

Grundy - Fwd
Richards - Fwd
Smith - Mid

Unless the KPD draftee shows every trait we want as a defender we seem to pass over them.

Jack struggled with injuries and I recall being regarded as a lock down defender and little else. A good LDD.

Will struggled with aerobic capacity and the skills required as a Swans def. I think he is just about ready but a flight risk although allegedly talking about a contract. (Some previous post)

Therefore unsure if Busslinger or Hayes would be picked with one of our two early picks. Unlikely.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[caesar88]

What you says makes sense. Plus I agree we draft whoever is best and fits our needs. I think we have shown we are prepared to do this by not gifting spots to Papley's brother or Florent's brother in previous years.

I just like the feel good factor though..........

I think there is something even more feel good about the idea of us bringing together guys from different walks of life and turning them into brothers at our club. You see guys like Florent & Hayward, or Gulden & Campbell, or Blakey & Rowbottom, or Papley & McInerney, or Stephens & Warner. They appear inseparable and it's purely because of their shared experience at our club, and they now have the chance to embark on careers together for the next decade. I reckon that's pretty special, and something that could be missed out on if too much emphasis is placed on trying to unite brothers on our list.

 

[Ticky009]

rustycrate you can add Amartey & McLean to possible approaches from other clubs.

 

[Kiama Chris]

He's been invited to the draft combine so yes its his year. Rookie Central calls him a 'value pick' and have him going 2nd round onwards 25-40

We have notional 14 (Dees), 15-18 (our first), 33-36 (our second), no third and a fourth seventy something. All likely plus one from a bid on Ashcroft.
Might fit our second if we use it for a mid.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I believe if we do trade in Logue, Gould will won't out.

Fair enough too. Tough old world.

 

[Ticky009]

We have notional 14 (Dees), 15-18 (our first), 33-36 (our second), no third and a fourth seventy something. All likely plus one from a bid on Ashcroft.
Might fit our second if we use it for a mid.

Plenty of trade water to pass under the bridge. We'll for sure have some players requesting transfers but as we're deep into finals that will have to wait. A few2nd round picks wouldn't go astray.

 

[Kiama Chris]

According to the draft points system, picks 14 & 17 are worth 2,186 points.

That equates to pick 4 (2,034 points), but not quite pick 3 (2,234 points).

Would I prefer pick 14 + 17 or pick 4?

Probably pick 4, given where our list is at.

But it’s all completely hypothetical.

Not sure the guys touted in that range are who we would want.

 

[Kiama Chris]

If we keep our picks
Swans have a very talented list with a lot of youth in the ones and the reserves. So lots of internal growth to come.
General defenders we seem to convert mids for that role (Rampe, Lloyd, Cunningham, Campbell, Florent, Blakey etc). McInerney would not be out of place. The Adelaide guy also. So I suspect our recruiters will not go there.
Small defenders. Usually they are already on your list(Lloyd, Cunningham, Fox). So I suspect our recruiters will not go there.
KPDs. Our two main KPDs are converted KPFs in the 2 Macx. Rampe has played here too. Melican has asked to look around for more opportunity (so picks may come our way). O'Connor has not shown he is ready for AFL yet. Dalrymple has said it is hard to find good ones. I think KPD could soak up a first rounder.

Mids. We have a great list of mids from the experience of Parker, Heeney and Mills and plenty of youth comin through in Rowbottom, McInerney, Warner Stephens, Gulden, Campbell. In reserves we have last years 3 draftees in Sheldrick, Roberts and Warner(jnr), two of which have made AFL debuts. Clarke is also holding a lockdown forward position in the ones. So we are stacked. But Dalrymple has said you can never have enough mids. I could see us taking another mid with one of our firsts or a second.
We don't have a tall mid. We do have plenty of inside and outside and guys that can play forward and back.

Small forwards. Papley is a star and at 26 is in his prime. Wicks and Ronke are reliable backup. Clarke is holding a position of lockdown forward. Sheldrick has trained and played here too. Ronke has had interest from Richmond apparently (so picks may come our way). No glaring weakness here.
Medium forwards. Heeney is class. Hayward is classy. Parker rolls forward too. Gulden is becoming a star. Campbell has played juniors here too. Lots to like.
KPDs. Buddy and Reid are still our two best closely followed by McDonald who is impressing around the ground from defence to wing to forward. Reid has reinvigorated himself as a Fwd/Ruck of high quality and rumoured to have signed for 2023. Buddy is a legend already but still not officially by the AFL. Time will take care of that. Still attracts the best defender. Will he stay or go in 2023. A decision to be made after the final siren this year. Amartey and McLean have had to bide their time in the reserves though both have played AFL this year. Neither have held their spot. Neither have reassured that they are long term AFL players. But Buddy and Reid are in front of them atm so they have to wait. In a perfect world it would be nice to find another young KPF to partner McDonald long term. Is Amartey or McLean that player. Who knows. I'm not sure. We have two first rounders and a second so we do have coin to package a deal for a KPF. It probably won't happen though.

Ruck. With Sinkers retired and Naismith probably on the way out too and Ruck Jesus only signed for 1 more year and hobbling. Lladhams is signed for a few years yet and McAndrew is still a project. Reid is offering good backup ruck. We need another ruck either drafted or rookied.

Delistings/Retirements.
Confirmed. Sinclair, O'riordan and Kennedy.
Unsigned. Lloyd, Gould, Cunningham, Clarke, McAndrew probably stay. Melican and Ronke linked to trades. Taylor surely delisted. Bell O'Connor unsure.


Summary.
We may get a pick or two with trades for Melican/Ronke or others.
Can see us taking a mid and a KPF in the AFL draft. Rookie another ruck. Maybe rookie some Academy players or others depending upon delistings.

Sound analysis Rusty.
From previous posts you know I would like to trade in Logue if he's interested which would cost a first rounder and might lose us Gould.
Interested in drafting Barnett as a tall who might end up as a defender or a ruck. 202cm 93kg has played SANFL as a ruck. Might be a slight reach. Worth a very close look.
Second rounder for a decent mid who fits our profile. Tall for preference.
4th rounder for a project.
A KPF would be nice but who? We still have to choose the best possible at our picks.

 

[rustycrate]

Not sure the guys touted in that range are who we would want.

Maybe Cadman

 

[Wheresbuddy]

We have drafted Will Gould and Jack Maibaum and I can't remember any defender before that and both are undersized in general terms. We convert what we need.

TMac - forward
PMac - forward
Lloyd - mid
Florent - mid
Rampe - maybe general def
Blakey - mid/fwd
Fox - maybe general def/fwd

Grundy - Fwd
Richards - Fwd
Smith - Mid

Unless the KPD draftee shows every trait we want as a defender we seem to pass over them.

Jack struggled with injuries and I recall being regarded as a lock down defender and little else. A good LDD.

Will struggled with aerobic capacity and the skills required as a Swans def. I think he is just about ready but a flight risk although allegedly talking about a contract. (Some previous post)

Therefore unsure if Busslinger or Hayes would be picked with one of our two early picks. Unlikely.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

I reckon you're onto something with your analysis on how we produce tall defenders. Converting forwards seems to be our thing. Leo Barry, Ted Richards, Heath Grundy, Mac X 2 - there's a real theme there. Wonder how McLean or Amartey would go down back?

 

[rustycrate]

Sound analysis Rusty.
From previous posts you know I would like to trade in Logue if he's interested which would cost a first rounder and might lose us Gould.
Interested in drafting Barnett as a tall who might end up as a defender or a ruck. 202cm 93kg has played SANFL as a ruck. Might be a slight reach. Worth a very close look.
Second rounder for a decent mid who fits our profile. Tall for preference.
4th rounder for a project.
A KPF would be nice but who? We still have to choose the best possible at our picks.

Certainly this trade/draft period is very interesting. Lots of trades already on the table from lots of clubs. Our list is very young, but very sound. No glaring weaknesses, so no need to jump into bidding wars and overpaying, especially for mids which we have lots. I find it astounding that clubs still want to pay two firsts for mids. There are very good mids in every draft.

We hopefully will be the beneficiary of some of these trades. Our trade history shows we can partner as a third club to facilitate deals. This is shaping as one of the most intriging trade/draft years for the AFL and I imagine we are already hoping to take advantage of that. I trust in Dalrymple and Beetson to come up with some left field and value too.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I reckon you're onto something with your analysis on how we produce tall defenders. Converting forwards seems to be our thing. Leo Barry, Ted Richards, Heath Grundy, Mac X 2 - there's a real theme there. Wonder how McLean or Amartey would go down back?

Amartey has been tried. Didn't work at the time. Might be worth another attempt.
McLean to the best of my knowledge hasn't had a run. I doubt he has the agility or speed off the mark.

 

[Millky95]

Certainly this trade/draft period is very interesting. Lots of trades already on the table from lots of clubs. Our list is very young, but very sound. No glaring weaknesses, so no need to jump into bidding wars and overpaying, especially for mids which we have lots. I find it astounding that clubs still want to pay two firsts for mids. There are very good mids in every draft.

We hopefully will be the beneficiary of some of these trades. Our trade history shows we can partner as a third club to facilitate deals. This is shaping as one of the most intriging trade/draft years for the AFL and I imagine we are already hoping to take advantage of that. I trust in Dalrymple and Beetson to come up with some left field and value too.

I'm worried about our KPD depth and KPF depth if McLean or Amartey want a trade

 

[rustycrate]

I reckon you're onto something with your analysis on how we produce tall defenders. Converting forwards seems to be our thing. Leo Barry, Ted Richards, Heath Grundy, Mac X 2 - there's a real theme there. Wonder how McLean or Amartey would go down back?

The trouble with converting Amartey or McLean to KPDs is that they just become third bananas behind the Macs. They are already third bananas behind Buddy/Reid/McDonald. Rumours apparently with trades for them too. They may want better prospects of more permanent AFL careers.

Makes more sense to find a young understudy for the Macs who can grow in the next few years as backup and long term replacement.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Thinking more about the conversations happening I'm thinking:
1) We either miss out or don't make a play for Logue. We push Gould as the lockdown third tall defender.
2) We don't trade, just draft.
3) We draft a KPD, KPF and mid in whatever order we see as best at those picks. If we don't like the Ks we draft an additional mid.
4) We give Naismith another year as a rookie or delist and give him a VFL contract and pick him up again mid year.
5) We give Taylor another year.
6) Bud retires. He looks cooked to me. Amartey and McLean hang in to compete for the third spot.

 

[rustycrate]

Thinking more about the conversations happening I'm thinking:
1) We either miss out or don't make a play for Logue. We push Gould as the lockdown third tall defender.
2) We don't trade, just draft.
3) We draft a KPD, KPF and mid in whatever order we see as best at those picks. If we don't like the Ks we draft an additional mid.
4) We give Naismith another year as a rookie or delist and give him a VFL contract and pick him up again mid year.
5) We give Taylor another year.
6) Bud retires. He looks cooked to me. Amartey and McLean hang in to compete for the third spot.

If Bud does retire I like the look of Amartey better than McLean. McLean is more the stay at home forward and would compete with McDonald more. McLean lacks mobility. Amartey is much more mobile, can lead and take pack marks, can get around the ground and can pinch hit in the ruck much like Reid has done very well this year.

 

[Bloods86]

Thinking more about the conversations happening I'm thinking:
1) We either miss out or don't make a play for Logue. We push Gould as the lockdown third tall defender.
2) We don't trade, just draft.
3) We draft a KPD, KPF and mid in whatever order we see as best at those picks. If we don't like the Ks we draft an additional mid.
4) We give Naismith another year as a rookie or delist and give him a VFL contract and pick him up again mid year.
5) We give Taylor another year.
6) Bud retires. He looks cooked to me. Amartey and McLean hang in to compete for the third spot.

1) Gould is important to keep as the eventual replacement for Rampe, probably gets a few games next year. I think if Bud and Gould leave, we should go hard for Logue. Play him forward for a year, then move him back to replace Rampe. He'll probably end up staying at Freo or going to North though.

2) Agree, I'm an advocate for one more good draft haul. Happy to use next years picks to improve our best 3 picks this year too. Maybe there's a deeper draft next year, but I think that can get outweighed by a years extra development from this years selections. Especially since we're now in the window.

3) If we got a KPD, KPF and a mid, I'd be stoked. We'll draft a mid somewhere regardless of how much of a need it is anyway. But with JPK, Taylor probably not around, maybe Bell gets delisted and Clarke maybe in the senior team for the long haul, our VFL midfield might be light on in any case. Worth getting one in.

4/6) I wouldn't look at re-signing Naismith now or in the MSD (he'd have to dominate and we'd have to have injuries to Hickey, Ladhams to justify it). I think Hickey, Ladhams, with Reid, Amartey, McLean as the backup rucks will be the outcome. McAndrew will stay on to develop. Might get one of the academy rucks in, or a DFA / rookie mature ager to help provide coverage once Hickey, Reid retire (where Ladhams is the sole ruck and we're waiting on McAndrew / academy rucks). Can always get a ruck as one of the VFL top ups if we're light on there (McAndrew + academy + Amartey/McLean).

5) Happy for Taylor to be re-rookied for a VFL spot and much less $$ if there's no better rookies, otherwise prefer to just bring in someone who might play AFL one day.

 

[rustycrate]

Another hypothetical list of draft order.
Kiama Chris Barnett is highly rated here.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/1663133957990-png.1507855/

 

[Ticky009]

Another hypothetical list of draft order.
Kiama Chris Barnett is highly rated here.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/1663133957990-png.1507855/

Barnett a late first or early 2nd round by this one.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Barnett a late first or early 2nd round by this one.

Pick 18 in my book.

 

[Kiama Chris]

If Bud does retire I like the look of Amartey better than McLean. McLean is more the stay at home forward and would compete with McDonald more. McLean lacks mobility. Amartey is much more mobile, can lead and take pack marks, can get around the ground and can pinch hit in the ruck much like Reid has done very well this year.

The thing with Amartey and McLean is that neither is "complete". Each has strengths and weaknesses.
McLean is probably more complementary to McDonald being more out of the square with McDonald playing higher. Amartey is way better than both as a cut out ruck but is behind Reid both as a ruck and as a forward.
Given that McLean has been the emergency tall you would have to conclude that he is ahead of Amartey but behind Reid and McDonald.
But if/when Bud retires you would think all bets are off.

 

[Bandicoot]

Fremantle seem resigned to the fact that Logue is going to ask to be traded. All the Vic media keep telling us that he is going to North but if that is the case, why hasn't he said so. Everyone else seems to have already declared which club they want to be traded to. If we win this weekend and he still hasn't nominated where he wants to go by mid week, my gut is telling me his choice is us. He is simply waiting for our season to finish before declaring it.
If so, Freo would demand our first pick (at least). What's he worth to us?

 

[Ticky009]

Fremantle seem resigned to the fact that Logue is going to ask to be traded. All the Vic media keep telling us that he is going to North but if that is the case, why hasn't he said so. Everyone else seems to have already declared which club they want to be traded to. If we win this weekend and he still hasn't nominated where he wants to go by mid week, my gut is telling me his choice is us. He is simply waiting for our season to finish before declaring it.
If so, Freo would demand our first pick (at least). What's he worth to us?

We've been mentioned but rumours are North offered >$ . Seeing as him manager is the same as Lobb it will be interesting.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Watch from 15:50 to hear Connor describe how he plays, strengths etc. Sounds very versatile, could play anywhere.

 

[KingV23]