List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

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Bit of a long one (actually two posts), but thought I’d take a bit of a deeper look into our rebuild to see if, and when, we might have a list that can compete for a flag. The following is a list breakdown for each club for 2022.
1673955941470.png

I’ve used AFL Stats Insider player ratings to rank players (which is based on average game rank, coaches’ votes, stats and a few other things), but then applied a quality guide based on the AFL website (stats only, but it’s what we’ve got) so it’s a bit easier to follow. There are more players with exposed form than play each year, so I’ve added an additional category of “Poor”, which covers players with exposed form that sit out of the top 540 players (i.e. outside a theoretical top 30 players on an average list).

In 2022, Geelong and Sydney both had the equal highest number of elite players with 6. But Sydney was belted in the gf, likely because Geelong had more above average (7 v 6) and average players (10 v 7). Melbourne won the flag the prior year with only 4 elite players but good depth. So elite players alone won’t win the flag.

Unsurprisingly, quality is an age-based thing for footballers (2022 data below):
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Players tend to peak between 24 and 30, when 4 to 5 players per cohort are consistently elite (although you may have up to 7 at around 27 years old). A player or two may be good enough to be elite in their 21st year and around 2 will be elite from 31 to 34. Talls take longer to develop and tend to top out at an average of 1 player per draft year from 23 years old. They do hold their form through to their mid 30’s.

Above average players follow a similar pattern but start a bit earlier and end a bit later (elite players on their way up and then down would be included in this). Talls are better represented at the above average level, with an average of 4 talls per cohort from 24 to 30 years old.

A lot of below average and poor players are held by clubs even up to 23 years old, as these players can improve to be average or better, but half of draftees are gone by their 30th year (you’d assume the worst of them). The rest go in the next 5 or so years, with hardly any players over 30 who aren’t at least average.

Based on these numbers, players ranked in the top 5 of their cohort are tracking to be elite, although late developers can rise above them and talls take a bit longer to emerge. Players in the top 22 of their cohort are tracking to be above average at their peak and players in the top 34 of their cohort are tracking to be average at their peak.
 
Part 2 . . .

Based on 2022 cohort rankings (shown in brackets below) and on the post above, Adelaide’s current group of young players is tracking as follows:
Age19202122232425
Peak2027-20332026-20322025-20312024-20302023-20292022-20282021-2027
EliteRachele (2nd)
Soligo (4th)
Rankine (3rd)Dawson (6th)
Above avBerry (8th)
Thilthorpe (11th)
Schoenberg (16th)Fog (14th)Keays (8th, above av)
Doedee 11th, above av)
AverageParnell (24th)
Cook (29th)
Gollant (27th)McHenry (23rd)
Sholl (24th)
Jones (28th)
Butts (25th)Hinge (average)
Himmelberg (average)
Milera (36th)
UnknownTaylor
Nank
Pedlar (5 gms)
Newchurch
Worrell (5 gms)Murray (37th)
Not looking goodBorlaseMcAsey (54th)Hately (38th)
Hamill (44th)
McPherson (52nd)Murphy (49th)

Under 30 players like Laird (Elite), ROB (Above average) and Smith (Above average) will add to this list, but will probably drop a grading by the time the rest of the list is ready. We don’t need Sloane, McAdam, Seed, Crouch or Strachan and Tex will retire.

This potentially gives us 4 elite players, 7 above average and 11 average players for 2027 before our unknowns (potentially 3 more in the average to above average band). That’s a contending list, but a very narrow window unless Pedlar goes elite, Rachele AND Soligo go elite early or Dawson holds elite form after 2027.

But if we can target elite and above average players (ala Geelong) in the Rachele to Rankine age bracket at the end of the next few years, we can widen the window.

Given we only have one key defender and one ruck in the average projections and none above that, we might want to get one of each at some point. But an extra elite mid would be nicer.
 
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Depends if they think there’s a talent worth adding now, but we just can’t add a player for the sake of it

Why not?

It's a free hit. Whats the worst that can happen - he is a dud?

We aint contending this year and if disaster hits injury wise - that means we will be able to put players onto the Long term injury list and pick someone up at the midseason draft.
 

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Why would we want another medium defender?

Surely when looking at a player in this situation talent trumps position.

We are not contending. Go for the player with the highest ceiling.

It's obvious recruiters don't see an AFL player in him or he'd have found an AFL home by now...

That doesn't make them right.

The AFL is littered with recruiters passing on really good players for long periods of time. Matt Priddis was overlooked for 3 consecutive AFL drafts.
 
Exactly, I’m sorry but Nicks is a bit of an idiot. He needs to rethink some stuff this year otherwise he won’t have a long coaching career, doesn’t seem he has though if Dawson is playing defence.
The catch will be if rankine and rachele transition to the middle and pedlar lifts, our exits from stoppages shoukd have a lot more class to them
 
Probably because we have a distinct lack of rebounding defenders. Butts, Murray, Doedee, Parnell/Brown, Jones don't exactly scream run and carry.
Parnell
Dawson
Hinge
Jones
Milera
Hamill
McPherson
Bond

Plus Michelanney, Doedee, Worrall. Hell, even Murphy possibly.

I reckon that's enough.
 
Parnell
Dawson
Hinge
Jones
Milera
Hamill
McPherson
Bond

Plus Michelanney, Doedee, Worrall. Hell, even Murphy possibly.

I reckon that's enough.
Yes, our issue is a lack of tall defenders, not small/mediums. In strife if Butts & Murray are injured
 
I imagine like when we re-rookied Sam Shaw a few years back it has to do with health benefits and entitlements for a listed player vs retired
That was about getting Shaw covered by the (then) new CBA, which had significantly better coverage for retired players. I don't think there is any such motivation for Seedsman.

I think it had more to do with salary cap, noting that we had already paid out Brown in the 2022 cap. I also think it took a long time for Seedsman himself to accept that it was all over, and they weren't going to force him out while he was still under the delusion that he could eventually play again.

On SM-X205 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Parnell
Dawson
Hinge
Jones
Milera
Hamill
McPherson
Bond

Plus Michelanney, Doedee, Worrall. Hell, even Murphy possibly.

I reckon that's enough.

We don't play them all though.

Our backline for the majority of the season had Butts/Murray/Doedee/Parnell/Jones/Smith/Dawson. Only two of those (Smith/Dawson) had any type of offensive output in 2022.

Its why we looked so much better offensively when Frampton replaced Murray as that 2nd key back. Or when Worrell went into Doedee's spot of 3rd tall.
 
Parnell
Dawson
Hinge
Jones
Milera
Hamill
McPherson
Bond

Plus Michelanney, Doedee, Worrall. Hell, even Murphy possibly.

I reckon that's enough.
If we're set on playing Dawson down there now and in the future, we definitely don't have an issue

If we were to move Dawson back up to a wing sometime in the next few years, however, that list is lacking an above average-to-elite rebounding half-back. A lot of 'meh' on that list

Hinge is solid, Milera could be solid if he gets back to his best, and someone like Parnell could still develop into a very good player. As it stands, though, bar Dawson, we don't have an elite rebounding prospect
 
Part 2 . . .

Awesome work Big Dub. Love a good detailed analysis.

Shows we aren't too far off based on the data.

Massive year coming up to see if we can unearth some future elite players. I think they are there within the list, but this year is massive for the future of our chances at contending.
 

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“Brings experience, been in the system for 5 years”

Cool.

At least they didn’t sign him on 2 years

I did giggle at the "comes from a good family" comment.
 
Despite the polarising views on here, Ben Keays was an astute pickup so will see how this one plays out, but still not sure where he fits in the scheme of things.

Happy to be proven incorrect though.
Gibson and Crocker or whatever the Collingwood tattoo dude was called
 


“Brings experience, been in the system for 5 years”

Cool.

At least they didn’t sign him on 2 years

This club is strange..

Tyler comes over to do a trial to maybe get a spot on this list..

Hes here for two days..

cant do any trial because they are waiting for “paperwork” to be cleared..

On the third day.. hey presto!.. we’ve signed him up!..

What the Fxxk??..

What the hell happened to him doing a trial?.. surely a trial would involve at least a couple of weeks of closely monitoring and assessing how the lad prepares himself/moves/performs/goes about his work/trains/his attitude/ethic/how he gells with the team etc ect?..

Seems a little rushed.. maybe they got word that other club(s) were sniffing around?.. power have been looking to add a big bodied mid as they missed out on Dunkley…

Anyway.. welcome to the club Tyler..
 
This club is strange..

Tyler comes over to do a trial to maybe get a spot on this list..

Hes here for two days..

cant do any trial because they are waiting for “paperwork” to be cleared..

On the third day.. hey presto!.. we’ve signed him up!..

What the Fxxk??..

What the hell happened to him doing a trial?.. surely a trial would involve at least a couple of weeks of closely monitoring and assessing how the lad prepares himself/moves/performs/goes about his work/trains/his attitude/ethic/how he gells with the team etc ect?..

Seems a little rushed.. maybe they got word that other club(s) were sniffing around?.. power have been looking to add a big bodied mid as they missed out on Dunkley…

Anyway.. welcome to the club Tyler..
I reckon Brown wouldn’t come for a trial without assurance we’d pick him up so we most probably just signed him
 
This club is strange..

Tyler comes over to do a trial to maybe get a spot on this list..

Hes here for two days..

cant do any trial because they are waiting for “paperwork” to be cleared..

On the third day.. hey presto!.. we’ve signed him up!..

What the Fxxk??..

What the hell happened to him doing a trial?.. surely a trial would involve at least a couple of weeks of closely monitoring and assessing how the lad prepares himself/moves/performs/goes about his work/trains/his attitude/ethic/how he gells with the team etc ect?..

Seems a little rushed.. maybe they got word that other club(s) were sniffing around?.. power have been looking to add a big bodied mid as they missed out on Dunkley…

Anyway.. welcome to the club Tyler..

We countered an offer from another club.
 
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