Training Training Reports and Updates

[cityslick1]

I thought Reef was quite good today. Marked strongly up forward.

agree Jen, his marking is a real standout. Kicking the only issue for me, as he is shanking a couple of field kicks every session. Thats why I cant see him hitting up the midfield any time soon. Need to have v good to elite delivery to grab a spot there, whereas Reef is average at best. He did nail a nice set shot today tho, which was great to see, as he is constantly getting it on leads in the pockets etc. Will kick a bag in the twos at some stage this year, maybe even v early on. So quick, with improved strength, plus the requisite intensity / desire. Will give a lot of medium defenders headaches, and i dont think we'll miss Ollie much with this guy around...

 

[Jen2310]

agree Jen, his marking is a real standout. Kicking the only issue for me, as he is shanking a couple of field kicks every session. Thats why I cant see him hitting up the midfield any time soon. Need to have v good to elite delivery to grab a spot there, whereas Reef is average at best. He did nail a nice set shot today tho, which was great to see, as he is constantly getting it on leads in the pockets etc. Will kick a bag in the twos at some stage this year, maybe even v early on. So quick, with improved strength, plus the requisite intensity / desire. Will give a lot of medium defenders headaches, and i dont think we'll miss Ollie much with this guy around...

For sure, needs to work on his kicking if he wants to go into the midfield in the future. But At least for the time being, he will be a pretty good forward.

 

[Scodog10]

You keep saying this but it's just not true. Preuss has been in the system for just as long, at 3 clubs for 28 games. Andrew Phillips is entering his 13th season, at his 3rd club and has only played 62 games. That's just 2 current players with a cursory glance. I suspect that you're subconsciously not doing your research on this to validate your point.

Tom Campbell entering season 12 with 56 games under his belt.

 

[Gone Critical]

You keep saying this but it's just not true. Preuss has been in the system for just as long, at 3 clubs for 28 games. Andrew Phillips is entering his 13th season, at his 3rd club and has only played 62 games. That's just 2 current players with a cursory glance. I suspect that you're subconsciously not doing your research on this to validate your point.

As I have said I am hoping Billy proves me wrong big time and my arguments are only based on looking at the history of players on lists but I think you are helping not hindering my concern. I said virtually no one had been on a list so long, injury free, for so few games. You have found 2 who come close to Billys history but with a bit more footy or injury.

Phillips has played a fair bit more footy than Billy at the same stage on a list and since has not translated that into becoming a best 22 player in 12 seasons. Preuss I think has the capacity to maybe play more. He is a beast ruck stuck behind Goldy then Gawn (why did he go to Melb) at his 1st 2 clubs then missed the 1st season at GWS with a pec/shoulder injury. Nonetheless in 2022 he could only get 10 games. Again has never been best 22.

If you can find someone who has spent 6-8 years on a list, injury free, who has then become best 22 over the next 3 seasons or so we would have a good case to compare.

I know the coaches know a lot more than us and I think Billy will get a fair crack at it but the evidence that he is up to becoming a regular best 22 AFL KPB is pretty sketchy for me and I think it also for the club. To me this is a spin of the wheel in hope. I find it a really interesting selection obviously and struggle to see the strong confidence a lot on the board have that Billy will make it.

 

[No SPIN]

I don't so much think Moore isn't suited to 1v1. It's more that he can do so much more than that. The times he was exposed last year was when he was trying to do both because we didn't have another tall defender- 1v1 & trying to rebound.

After being exposed in the early rounds, Moore’s 1v1 ability improved dramatically and was excellent by seasons end IMO.

 

[Gone Critical]

Tom Campbell entering season 12 with 56 games under his belt.

Again "virtually no one" is what I said. The few examples found examples are just strengthening my case. All are ruckmen who we know get more time. Still the 3 examples are ruckmen who didnt become best 22 after their 8th season.

Campbell got to 45 games in 8 seasons roughly double Billys games but in the next 3 seasons has played 12. Hasnt got near being best 22 in 12 years.

 

[KinderSmock]

So if any players are going to sustain a season ending injury (and touch wood none do), could they please hurry up and do so before February 15 so we can recruit another player?

 

[Big Bryza]

I can't see how Billy Frampton doesn't become the AA FB this season.

 

[Jasper84]

If you can find someone who has spent 6-8 years on a list, injury free, who has then become best 22 over the next 3 seasons or so we would have a good case to compare.

Now you are getting into the realm of that other guy who routinely pops up on here and gives posters side quests with ridiculously specific parameters. I've already given you two players. Maybe it's time for you to do your own research to confirm your long held belief. What is frustrating is that this isn't the first time you have been fact checked and corrected over this, yet you keep going back to it.

Frampton isn't the same in that he spent his first six seasons as a ruck/forward, which admittedly failed. He has only been a defender for 2 seasons.

This is from 23rd July 2021, so effectively he has played 16 out of a possible 40 odd AFL games as a defender, which was clearly foreign to him:

"Billy Frampton will play in the backline when he returns to Adelaide's senior side to take on Hawthorn.
Frampton earned a recall having picked up a team-high 31 disposals and 13 marks in the SANFL after being shifted to the unfamiliar role.

"What we're seeing from Billy is incredible craft as a back considering he's played all of his career as a forward," Crows coach Matthew Nicks said.

"He knows what a forward wants and he's able to read the ball. It's a massive step up but we want to give him that opportunity."

 

[Mick F]

I can't see how Billy Frampton doesn't become the AA FB this season.

He certainly has the physical attributes. Height and speed gives one a huge head start in football.
Good feedback on his attitude and leadership since arriving.

 

[Gone Critical]

Now you are getting into the realm of that other guy who routinely pops up on here and gives posters side quests with ridiculously specific parameters. I've already given you two players. Maybe it's time for you to do your own research to confirm your long held belief. What is frustrating is that this isn't the first time you have been fact checked and corrected over this, yet you keep going back to it.

Frampton isn't the same in that he spent his first six seasons as a ruck/forward, which admittedly failed. He has only been a defender for 2 seasons.

This is from 23rd July 2021, so effectively he has played 16 out of a possible 40 odd AFL games as a defender, which was clearly foreign to him:

"Billy Frampton will play in the backline when he returns to Adelaide's senior side to take on Hawthorn.
Frampton earned a recall having picked up a team-high 31 disposals and 13 marks in the SANFL after being shifted to the unfamiliar role.

"What we're seeing from Billy is incredible craft as a back considering he's played all of his career as a forward," Crows coach Matthew Nicks said.

"He knows what a forward wants and he's able to read the ball. It's a massive step up but we want to give him that opportunity."

I have looked, I cant find anyone that tops or matches him. You certainly havent corrected me just helped make the case.

I also don't see that much in the 2 season argument. As a mature player with a change of position, given he went backwards in games in the 2nd season and once out of the AFL team early in the season never broke back in, isnt a great sign.

I hope to be wrong but the evidence we have from the outside seems not great. I know are lot are basing their confidence on our coaching staff but 2 other lots of coaches have seen fit to discard him. Nicks might say Billy has incredible craft in 21 and was glowing about him after the Dogs game in 22 but after 2 more games dropped him for good. Suggests the internal opinions differed quite strongly from those outside quotes.

 

[Gone Critical]

I can't see how Billy Frampton doesn't become the AA FB this season.

Would love it

 

[Matrix10]

I have looked, I cant find anyone that tops or matches him. You certainly havent corrected me just helped make the case.

I also don't see that much in the 2 season argument. As a mature player with a change of position, given he went backwards in games in the 2nd season and once out of the AFL team early in the season never broke back in, isnt a great sign.

I hope to be wrong but the evidence we have from the outside seems not great. I know are lot are basing their confidence on our coaching staff but 2 other lots of coaches have seen fit to discard him. Nicks might say Billy has incredible craft in 21 and was glowing about him after the Dogs game in 22 but after 2 more games dropped him for good. Suggests the internal opinions differed quite strongly from those outside quotes.

Nicks also said straight out “ I don’t rate him as a player “ whilst he was in a coaching role at Port , as GC has stated , the coaching staff at Collingwood will give him every opportunity to nail down a spot down back in the seniors , bit of a spin the wheel do a deal selection, let’s see how it pans out .

 

[Jen2310]

Nicks also said straight out “ I don’t rate him as a player “ whilst he was in a coaching role at Port , as GC has stated , the coaching staff at Collingwood will give him every opportunity to nail down a spot down back in the seniors , bit of a spin the wheel do a deal selection, let’s see how it pans out .

I was told that too. That Nicks just didn't rate him and was never gonna get a regular gig at the crows

 

[Jasper84]

I have looked, I cant find anyone that tops or matches him. You certainly havent corrected me just helped make the case.

I also don't see that much in the 2 season argument. As a mature player with a change of position, given he went backwards in games in the 2nd season and once out of the AFL team early in the season never broke back in, isnt a great sign.

I hope to be wrong but the evidence we have from the outside seems not great. I know are lot are basing their confidence on our coaching staff but 2 other lots of coaches have seen fit to discard him. Nicks might say Billy has incredible craft in 21 and was glowing about him after the Dogs game in 22 but after 2 more games dropped him for good. Suggests the internal opinions differed quite strongly from those outside quotes.

Maybe adjust your search to tall defenders who came good after 2 middling seasons, as we can now all agree that Frampton has only played that role for 2 years. I'll start you off with the player Frampton replaced, Jordan Roughead.

 

[Pistol Night]

I might be slow on the uptake here but interesting to see Brendan McCartney helping out at training. The Cats boys circa 2006-2010 raved about him and his input into the clubs success. Nice to see Fly not scared to take as much on board as possible

 

[Jen2310]

I might be slow on the uptake here but interesting to see Brendan McCartney helping out at training. The Cats boys circa 2006-2010 raved about him and his input into the clubs success. Nice to see Fly not scared to take as much on board as possible

I was trying to work out who that other coach was. I didn't recognize him at the time. Wonder what's the reason for it.

 

[Gone Critical]

Maybe adjust your search to tall defenders who came good after 2 middling seasons, as we can now all agree that Frampton has only played that role for 2 years. I'll start you off with the player Frampton replaced, Jordan Roughead.

Are you trying to help me? Roughy a 200 game premiership player who played early then often.Mixed up forward, ruck and back from early in his career. Polar opposite of Billy in that he became AFL relevent early in his career, playing all the roles Billy has to date but without Roughys AFL success

 

[Pistol Night]

I was trying to work out who that other coach was. I didn't recognize him at the time. Wonder what's the reason for it.

Interesting.

 

[Jen2310]

View attachment 1601236
Interesting.

Cast an eye over training and the team...

Surely thats what our coaches are for. Quite interesting they would need someone external.

 

[Scodog10]

Again "virtually no one" is what I said. The few examples found examples are just strengthening my case. All are ruckmen who we know get more time. Still the 3 examples are ruckmen who didnt become best 22 after their 8th season.

Campbell got to 45 games in 8 seasons roughly double Billys games but in the next 3 seasons has played 12. Hasnt got near being best 22 in 12 years.

Frampton entered the system as a ruckman and I only added my voice to Jasper’s post. I understand your reservations, but he’s had 18 months in the role we recruited him to play and he performed when required at senior level in 2022 in that role. More importantly, and what I sense has been missed on here, is he was dominant at SANFL level Adelaide just had their preferred options in Murray and Butts. He’d have been best 22 at Collingwood last year and circumstance has played a role in his stagnation.

 

[Jasper84]

Are you trying to help me? Roughy a 200 game premiership player who played early then often.Mixed up forward, ruck and back from early in his career. Polar opposite of Billy in that he became AFL relevent early in his career, playing all the roles Billy has to date but without Roughys AFL success

Honestly, your whole metric on judging a player based on what other players have historically done is dumb and I wished I hadn't got sucked into it. If we followed your theory we wouldn't have drafted Cox because MacNamara was a failure and there weren't any other US success stories to date.

But it will all work out fine for you in this instance because if Frampton fails you were right and if he succeeds you can enjoy the spoils by being a pies supporter. It's a well trodden path.

 

[No SPIN]

I might be slow on the uptake here but interesting to see Brendan McCartney helping out at training. The Cats boys circa 2006-2010 raved about him and his input into the clubs success. Nice to see Fly not scared to take as much on board as possible

He’s also lauded for getting Melb to be a far more contested and aggressive stoppage team team.

 

[jonbe54]

Cast an eye over training and the team...

Surely thats what our coaches are for. Quite interesting they would need someone external.

Not part of the "team think"???

 

[Scodog10]

Honestly, your whole metric on judging a player based on what other players have historically done is dumb and I wished I hadn't got sucked into it. If we followed your theory we wouldn't have drafted Cox because MacNamara was a failure and there weren't any other US success stories to date.

But it will all work out fine for you in this instance because if Frampton fails you were right and if he succeeds you can enjoy the spoils by being a pies supporter. It's a well trodden path.

Not quite. Similar discussions to this were had involving GC re Kreuger this time last year. Lo and behold he comes in and is immediately best 22 just as the journeyman Frampton will be. Unfortunately it didn’t work out fine on either front for Kreuger because injuries have so far stymied any thought of that early promise amounting to anything much. The system is evolving and these middling guys coming out of nowhere to have an impact are bobbing up more regularly due to a change in scenery and an environment that works for them. I think it has a lot to do with football clubs focusing on what they can do for them not what they did for others…