Injury 2023 St Kilda Injury Thread

[Mowman]

Maybe we should just trust the doctors. Saints arnt gonna risk there best player to potentially scrape into finals

What’s wrong with Owens ?

 

[The_Steadier]

if the surgery gets done the day after the grand final it won't impact his pre-season.

'Wont impact' compared to what though?

Him attending pre-season?

Sure- if the pass/fail mark is set at max merely attending pre-season- then sure, getting the surgery in october vs now in july 'wont impact'.

But if we are setting the bar for success at max merely being present at pre-season start in november... then that is a disgrace.

Max having a full reco now means he would be ready to do anything and everything from day 1 of pre-season in november.

Him getting it done in october means his pre-season would in reality just be mostly months of shoulder rehab and running and very little (if any) actual pre-season program.

 

[The_Steadier]

It is a reco that he needs?

Jon Ralph tweeted that he will be getting the latarjet surgery which is a quicker recovery than a reconstruction.

Surely it's way too early to say for sure one way or another- they won't make a call for months if it's not going to happen until october.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

We should all march on RSEA Park and demand that all of our different views and all of our different ways of handling King’s injury are all taken into account and acted on accordingly

 

[phantom13]

I'm confused by this. Everyone saying it's not worth him coming back for one or two games. Have we given up on playing finals already? He could be the difference of making the finals and then going on a finals run. The bloke is a footballer, I completely understand the desire to play him now and rehab in the off-season if it's an option. He wants to play footy and ultimately he'd want to play finals footy.

Feels like we've finally caught a break with an injury, I don't understand the negativity around it at all.

I think (and ill only speak for myself).

If we finish 9th or 5th this year it really doesnt matter that much. Ross foundation year is about trying and testing. Were not winning a flag this year King or not but we might be building into next year.

Risking him now to maybe win a final at the risk of next years start being delayed is not the decision i would personally make.

 

[botts]

With two smalls injured is it time for peris to get a game?

 

[BrutThough]

Surely it's way too early to say for sure one way or another- they won't make a call for months if it's not going to happen until october.

Misson confirmed it at today's press conference

The surgeons assured us two things: A, that if he does sublux again when he does come back to play it won’t damage the joint any further, but (B)… whenever he does have the Latarjet it’s not going to compromise his pre-season.​

- Acting General Manager of Football David Misson

No risks, no excuses: King dominates headlines, but Lyon fixed on task at hand

Ross Lyon and Acting General Manager of Football David Misson provide the latest updates on Max King and what be in-store for Round 18.

www.saints.com.au

 

[phantom13]

Misson talks about it here:

https://www.saints.com.au/video/1378995/lyon-and-misson-with-the-latest-on-king-showdown-with-suns?videoId=1378995&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1689211735001

Sounds like if it pops out again he'll still be right to complete pre-season and it won't do any further damage. And if the surgery gets done the day after the grand final it won't impact his pre-season.

Assuming it pops clean and doesnt impact anything else.

Shoulder and hips are ****ed joints that can do a heap of damage coming out.

This is again speculation but it aligns with what id expect a surgeon to have said.

"If he does the same dislocation, in the same manner, it likely wont cause any additional damage and therefore delaying the surgery wont make any difference to my work" that is not the same as "delay the surgery and it wont matter at all".

Surgeons NEVER speak in absolutes and ultimately if everything goes the same way it probably doesnt make a difference to him. But if it comes out a ****ing mile or in a different direction it could do a shitload of damage, change the surgical options and hugely delay his pre season and impact in 24.

I cant think of many instances where delaying a required surgery is a good option.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Don’t and didn’t take anything here personally just noting that if you reckon anyone taking issue with this is playing armchair surgeon then we may as well not discuss anything at all. Experts are never wrong are they?

Experts are actually very rarely wrong.

People who have opinions with no expertise in a specific area are often very wrong.

 

[The_Steadier]

Risking him now to maybe win a final at the risk of next years start being delayed is not the decision i would personally make

Not to mention the risk of messing with him mentally.

Given how easily it popped out again after a full reco and long, cautious rehab-
he's probably already pretty worried about whether his shoulder is now going to be a recurring issue for the rest of his career.

Bringing him back for a couple of games before doing surgery to stabilise it could very easily spook him further, especially if he pops it again which he could very easily do.

 

[Joffaboy]

Experts are actually very rarely wrong.

People who have opinions with no expertise in a specific area are often very wrong.

It is really quite mystifying how people with absolutely no knowledge in the field can argue on something for pages.
And to say finals doesn't matter is the ultimate embrace of mediocrity.
Another wilderness year, club seems becalmed, listed players lose more confidence, potential players don't see a finals team, members again disheartened, and for what? The off chance a forward will come back next year, have no injuries, and maybe lead us to finals in 15 months time.
Wow just wow.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hayes]

Hmm.
Apparently was being managed for a week.
Will be interesting to see exactly how long this turns out to be.

Membrey was only going to miss a week with his knee. AFL teams are weird with injuries, for some reason everything gets underplayed.

 

[pebblesofsand]

My read is - Max will keep training with the hope of playing towards the end of this year but only if we look like making finals. If it becomes apparent that we won't make it then his surgery will be brought forward.

Happens every year with players at many many clubs. Players scheduled for surgery at the end of the season have it early when it becomes apparent they are out of the finals race.

Just off to the drop my car in at the mechanics, should I ask him for his prognosis on Max's injury?

 

[hayes]

AFL teams:

“Nothing to see here just a little niggle. Should be back next week”

 

[phantom13]

Experts are actually very rarely wrong.

People who have opinions with no expertise in a specific area are often very wrong.

Sure but theyre not NEVER wrong.

And again, i cant believe i have to say this again, im not concerned with the surgeons advice, im concerned with the decision made by the club medicos who have been wrong a number of times this year already.

 

[The Slug]

Haven't seen anything on the injury list, but Leo and Adams both had the rehab red on today.

 

[phantom13]

It is really quite mystifying how people with absolutely no knowledge in the field can argue on something for pages.
And to say finals doesn't matter is the ultimate embrace of mediocrity.
Another wilderness year, club seems becalmed, listed players lose more confidence, potential players don't see a finals team, members again disheartened, and for what? The off chance a forward will come back next year, have no injuries, and maybe lead us to finals in 15 months time.
Wow just wow.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeh very few people have no experience in this "field".

Ive have a a number of arthros, neck, shoulder, ankle, back and achilles surgeries in my time (and almost all related to football injuries) and as ive noted clearly my concern is not with the surgeons advice, its with the decision made by the club medical team.

Surgeons dont give bad advice, but they can have their advice ignored or misunderstood though.

Also not writing off finals this year, just noting that winning one final now and potentially derailing the career of a former number 1 pick and best player in our team for one final win, maybe two, versus setting us up for longer term success is not the trade i would personally make.

 

[The_Steadier]

Misson confirmed it at today's press conference

The surgeons assured us two things: A, that if he does sublux again when he does come back to play it won’t damage the joint any further, but (B)… whenever he does have the Latarjet it’s not going to compromise his pre-season.​

- Acting General Manager of Football David Misson

No risks, no excuses: King dominates headlines, but Lyon fixed on task at hand

Ross Lyon and Acting General Manager of Football David Misson provide the latest updates on Max King and what be in-store for Round 18.

www.saints.com.au

(B)… whenever he does have the Latarjet it’s not going to compromise his pre-season.​

How on earth is a surgeon in a position to answer the question 'will his pre-season be compromised?'

Unlike (A)- that's not an anatomy question.

If misson really is getting a surgeon to assure us of things of a non anatomical nature- then we are in trouble.

Though I suspect he's not doing that. Instead misson is just using the surgeon as a handy scapegoat for what is really happening- which is that it is HIM, not the surgeon, deciding that his pre-season wont be compromised.

 

[BrutThough]

(B)… whenever he does have the Latarjet it’s not going to compromise his pre-season.​

How on earth is a surgeon in a position to answer the question 'will his pre-season be compromised?'

Unlike (A)- that's not an anatomy question.

If misson really is getting a surgeon to assure us of things of a non anatomical nature- then we are in trouble.

Though I suspect he's not doing that. Instead he is just using the surgeon as a handy scapegoat for what is really happening- which is that it is HIM, not the surgeon, deciding that his pre-season wont be compromised.

Or they just asked the surgeon the timeline of recovery, and if that timeline would impact Max's ability to partake in a managed preseason program starting in late November.

 

[The_Steadier]

Or they just asked the surgeon the timeline of recovery, and if that timeline would impact Max's ability to partake in a managed preseason program starting in late November.

The whole point is that he would be doing a full preseason program starting november if they do stabilising surgery now.

A 'managed' preseason program could mean anything up to and including him jogging laps in a sling in november.

No compromise to him showing up to preseason... sure.

But as I said earlier- if we are merely setting the bar at max being present at pre-season training... then we are a joke.

 

[bergholt]

Experts are actually very rarely wrong.

People who have opinions with no expertise in a specific area are often very wrong.

Maybe you don't know as many doctors as I do, but they're humans and they have opinions and egos like the rest of us. The human body isn't a machine so there are always variables they don't and can't account for. Ask two medical professionals a question and you'll probably get three different answers.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Who's Max ?

 

[BrutThough]

The whole point is that he would be doing a full preseason program starting november if they do stabilising surgery now.

A 'managed' preseason program could mean anything up to and including him jogging laps in a sling in november.

No compromise to him showing up to preseason... sure.

But as I said earlier- if we are merely setting the bar at max being present at pre-season training... then we are a joke.

With his history, he wouldn't be doing a 'full' preseason anyway. He would be on a highly managed program regardless as a lot of senior players are. Likely means no contract pre-chirtsmas rather than very little contract.

Given we are still in a position to make finals and the surgeon has said won't damage the joint any further, why would we prioritise having him ready for a few contact drills in November over meaningful games of football this season?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Hmm.
Apparently was being managed for a week.
Will be interesting to see exactly how long this turns out to be.

Cut it off and wheel him out to the pocket

 

[PoppedCorn]

Oh and we all know who's fault it actually is don't we


Yup
That's right