List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[sr36]

Agree with this, I don't see us winning the whole thing next year, why delay the inevitable? Happy to be proven wrong but personally don't see where our growth comes from where it shoots us back in to top 4 next year.

Good years from Jordy, IQ and Darcy. Further progress from Nick. Game plan tweaks. Trying to score when defending a lead.

 

[JLC]

I have no big issues with us falling away after a premiership year. Injuries happen, it was always a possibility and it was great that we nabbed one. Apart from not having a first round picks to look forward to this year, the worst thing is that we haven't invested into any opportunity starved young talent this year apart from Harrison. Instead we have to endure watching delisted rejects from bottom sides and SSPs like Bytel, Long, Sullivan and even Markov get long stretches of games with marginal impact. They do nothing for our future or our ability to regenerate.

It's just a wasted year when we have generational players like Naicos and Pendles still running around.

Which opportunity starved young talent?

Fin Macrae has had ample opportunities.

 

[cfc19902010]

I actually am.

Lolol

 

[sr36]

What position does Lukosius actually want to play?

Could he slot in across half back and we utilise his long kicking? Or is his preference to be a third tall forward?

He's in the wrong era. Would have been good playing forward in the days when Tarrant and Reiwoldt took close to 10 uncontested marks a game leading up to the wing - but that's now super contested down the line to a pack territory.
He needs to be convinced that defence is the best spot for his skillset.

 

[No SPIN]

Name me 5 clubs where they have only have two players on the list drafted since 2019 that has played more than 20 games.

You really have lost control of your spin doctoring. If you're a Hine fan, think our trading has been top notch and there are no issues with our player development please tell me why we have not being able to establish any best 22 players from our drafting in the last 5 years apart from Daicos and McCreery. We've had 5 first round picks and 4 second round picks in that time.

I think we have the drafted talent on the list. We're just not giving them opportunities. I can understand why we didn't last year but this year with all our injuries is when when we should have pumped games into our drafted talent. Instead we're wasting valuable game time on delisted SSP/MSD plodders who have done nothing to make us perform better in the short term as we're bottom 8.

I live in the real world where only results matter, and have challenged people continually to offer 5 recruiters with better results than Hine.
I get crickets.
He’s kept us contending, making final PF, GF and winning flags.
All the surrounding discussions about burnt 1st rounders is only an issue if it had stopped us from contending, and it hasn’t.
That’s why criticism of Hine rings hollow.

As to development - if we were on the bottom of the table like Haw have been continuously, we would have blooded a lot more players. It’s a much harder task when you have a highly competitive squad (which by definition has a very high quality group of incumbents), for youngsters to break through.
In the last 5 years JD, Murphy, IQ, Cameron, HH, Joey have all progressed and become AFL players. And only lack of opportunity has caused Reef, Macrae to still be question marks. Then we have Henry, Ginnivan and Stephenson at other clubs.

Go and look at our GF team of 2018, and compare it to the 2023 flag side - the amount of player turnover has been substantial.
Which is testament to great list management.

 

[Ugene41]

Which opportunity starved young talent?

Fin Macrae has had ample opportunities.

Macrae has not had an uninterrupted run of games where he wasn't a sub/subbed like Long has had. And he's still had more breakout games and moments.

Same with Reef.

And Richards dropped after a quiet game after some great performances and now subbed on for a minute.

Parker showing strong composure and signs in the seniors and dropped after a game.

Bytel/Long/Sullivan getting selected in the side in the last month over Harrison who's proved he's got the ability to be best 22 forward and midfield attributes.

 

[Jafo]

I don't know, I'm guessing we have seeing as though you asked. Contracts don't mean much these days.

Yeah re contracts. Though I don’t think we’d get much if anything for Leggy anyhow so technically his contract’s safe.

 

[Bussie]

When he was at Freo, he looked quicker, and was quite freakish at kicking a goal. To me this season he's looked slow, not as fit and misses simple goals, like he did on Friday night.
I just want to see a trimmed down, fitter looking Schultz in 2025. One thing l will say though us that Schultz is a very good overhead mark for his height. So if he can find another yard or two, he will be a 35 goal kicker in 2025....

Probably because we only saw the highlights reel.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Probably because we only saw the highlights reel.

I would watch Freo games if they were getting played, particularly when they were the last game on a Sunday evening, on Kayo.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Just hope the club finally invests in a half decent VFL list like most other clubs do

Me too. One of the boys he’s bringing with him could be good for us.

 

[thommo_legend]

Hope we are into Sam Berry, he break tackles and tackles well.

 

[Duck River Pie]

Did I just hear on the radio that we are into Tex Walker on a one year contract? Or was I hearing things?

 

[partypie]

Is AJ as bad as all that? Seems as though he was pretty good and then went backwards. Likely mental health issues which impacted on motivation. May well miss SA so going back there be good for him

Started off looking pretty good in the pre-season, had a couple of stinkers in the first two games where the entire team stunk it up badly and was then made the sacrificial lamb and subject of some pretty vile abuse.

From there just he didn't show much hunger or intent for whatever reason, which is a bit of a disappointment because he has the talent and we really needed him to take a big step forward but it is what it is now.

I'd be surprised if he's at the club next year as a decision of his own choosing, but if he does choose to stay then I'm hoping that this year has put some real fire in his belly and he'll come out smokin' opponents next year for us at AFL level, because we could really use his point of difference to compliment Mihocek and McStay, indeed I still think he is exactly what we need out of our third tall forward to make things easier for the two incumbents.

 

[Ugene41]

I live in the real world where only results matter, and have challenged people continually to offer 5 recruiters with better results than Hine.
I get crickets.
He’s kept us contending, making final PF, GF and winning flags.
All the surrounding discussions about burnt 1st rounders is only an issue if it had stopped us from contending, and it hasn’t.
That’s why criticism of Hine rings hollow.

As to development - if we were on the bottom of the table like Haw have been continuously, we would have blooded a lot more players. It’s a much harder task when you have a highly competitive squad (which by definition has a very high quality group of incumbents), for youngsters to break through.
In the last 5 years JD, Murphy, IQ, Cameron, HH, Joey have all progressed and become AFL players. And only lack of opportunity has caused Reef, Macrae to still be question marks. Then we have Henry, Ginnivan and Stephenson at other clubs.
Go and look at our GF team of 2018, and compare it to the 2023 flag side - the amount of player turnover has been substantial.
Which is testament to great list management.

So many words yet you can't respond to the simple task of naming 5 clubs (premiership contenders included) that have less than 2 drafted players from the last 5 years with more than 20 games on the list. Crickets.

I agree with you that Hine has a good track record in picking talent. That leaves only player development as the issue on why we systematically starve our young draftees of opportunity.

 

[partypie]

He was a fantastic defender a couple of years ago. And it sounds like he's going well at VFL. Why aren't they playing him?

Taylor, Buckley, Himmelberg, Idun, Perryman all in front of him along with Whitfield and Ash as the "smalls", so it's a hard backline to break into.

 

[Fat Jesus]

So many words yet you can't respond to the simple task of naming 5 clubs (premiership contenders included) that have less than 2 drafted players from the last 5 years with more than 20 games on the list. Crickets.

I agree with you that Hine has a good track record in picking talent. That leaves only player development as the issue on why we systematically starve our young draftees of opportunity.

Opportunity not as easy when older players are still playing well.
In saying this. Most of the younger brigade have had a go or two.

Coaches have GPS numbers and all sorts of other stats to go by the decisions they make.
I trust in Fly

 

[partypie]

A few nomes to follow that havn't been listed recently (no inside information just my thoughts):

• Baku Khamis WBD 24yo, 191cm defender OOC. We apparently tried last year before he signed a 1 year extension.
• Charlie Ballard GCS 25yo, 196cm defender, contracted to 2025. With Mac Andrew starting to look good he may be surplus and there are rumours GCS are clearing cap space for big $ trades.
• Jack Lukosius GCS 23yo, 195cm defender/forward, contracted to 2026. GCS clearing cap space?

Ballard in particular would be a fantastic get as a KPD, busts a gut every time he steps out on the field and has a bit of Maynard mongrel about him.

 

[No SPIN]

So many words yet you can't respond to the simple task of naming 5 clubs (premiership contenders included) that have less than 2 drafted players from the last 5 years with more than 20 games on the list. Crickets.

I agree with you that Hine has a good track record in picking talent. That leaves only player development as the issue on why we systematically starve our young draftees of opportunity.

I think I made the point I don’t consider your question relevant- it’s just an artificial metric with which to bag Hine.
My point of how much the 2018 GF team differs from the flag team is far more relevant to assessing list management.

 

[Ugene41]

Opportunity not as easy when older players are still playing well.
In saying this. Most of the younger brigade have had a go or two.

Coaches have GPS numbers and all sorts of other stats to go by the decisions they make.
I trust in Fly

This was true last year. This year our older players are slowing and getting injured. There's been plenty of opportunity to back in younger players and show them some faith and

Instead we have to watch Bytel, Long, Sullivan, Markov help us to a bottom 8 finish and take up valuable match experience

 

[Ugene41]

I think I made the point I don’t consider your question relevant- it’s just an artificial metric with which to bag Hine.
My point of how much the 2018 GF team differs from the flag team is far more relevant to assessing list management.

Do you not read before you jump to club propaganda? I'm not bagging Hine at all. I've been a Hine supporter the whole time. He's not helped by our lack of player development.

 

[SchuPie]

I think I made the point I don’t consider your question relevant- it’s just an artificial metric with which to bag Hine.
My point of how much the 2018 GF team differs from the flag team is far more relevant to assessing list management.

Sorry if the list if off topic

Looking at the below, it would be interesting to debate Hine’s impact on the 2023 premiership

Murphy - slid to pick 39 2017

Moore - FS (injured 2018)

Howe - trade

Maynard - pick 30 2014

Frampton - trade

Q - NGA

Sidey - 2005!

Pendles - 2005!

Markov - SSP

Hill - trade

Checkers - Rookie

Billy - pre draft trade

Beau - pick 44 2020

JDG - pick 5 2014

Jaicos - FS (but taken as a “live” pick)

Naicos - FS

Crisp - steak knives 2014

Cox - Cat b years ago

Titch - trade

Cameron - trade

WHE - trade

Ginni - rookie

Lippa - trade

 

[adammania9]

“It’s certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life”
- “What do you mean?”
-“Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Derek Hine”
-“Derek Hine? Some of his recent drafting is not bad
-“No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it looks alright, it’s actually just shite.”
-“Ok so what’s the point you are trying to make?”
-“All I'm trying to do is help you understand that Father-Son selections are merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
-“What about Harvey Harrison?”
-“I don’t rate him at all.”
-“Despite the Rising Star nomination?”
-“That means **** all. It’s a sympathy vote”
-“Right. So we all get old then we can’t hack it anymore. Is that it?”
-“Yeah”
-“That’s your theory?”
-Yeah! Beautifully ******* illustrated”

 

[No SPIN]

Do you not read before you jump to club propaganda? I'm not bagging Hine at all. I've been a Hine supporter the whole time. He's not helped by our lack of player development.

We seem to be on different wavelengths.

From your post# 10830

“Name me 5 clubs where they have only have two players on the list drafted since 2019 that has played more than 20 games.”

It was ambiguous and hence my focus in my response, on implied poor drafting not poor development.

However I also said that development of young players is easy when a team is struggling - but much harder for youth to replace best 22 players in teams who are constantly contending ie high quality teams.
One could argue that Hill, Frampton, Markov, McStay when recruited took development away from youth. But if Flags are the metric then the decision was correct.

 

[magpies42]

We seem to be on different wavelengths.

From your post# 10830

“Name me 5 clubs where they have only have two players on the list drafted since 2019 that has played more than 20 games.”

It was ambiguous and hence my focus in my response, on implied poor drafting not poor development.

However I also said that development of young players is easy when a team is struggling - but much harder for youth to replace best 22 players in teams who are constantly contending ie high quality teams.
One could argue that Hill, Frampton, Markov, McStay when recruited took development away from youth. But if Flags are the metric then the decision was correct.

That has more to do with trading than drafting issues. We have traded away so many first round picks for nothing!

Hine’s talent identification is up there with the best in the business.

Again this year, on account of disastrous trade we end up without an early pick!

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Did I just hear on the radio that we are into Tex Walker on a one year contract? Or was I hearing things?

I personally hope it’s true.