Review 2024 National Draft Thread Part Deux - Welcome FOS, M.Whitlock, L.Urquhart & River Stevens

[Supa_Nova]

Get stoked. We paid overs, but got another sheezel/mckercher PLUS FINALLY A KPF!!!!!!

Stuff future first. Let's get stmpf, shanahan or the other Whitlock.

Also us and Richmond the ONLY teams to grab KPF. So either no one rated them or no one needed them... who cares either way, we did it. We got a kpf. Wooooooooo!!!!!

 

[ohmygewd]

Wow the conversation did go well into the night

Like to pose a few question's that will hopefully take the heat of M.Whitlock trade and focus it where it should:

Was M.Whitlock worth a F1? No
Was M.Whitlock worth a #27(23)? Yes, that was his projected range, imo.
So is C.Daniel worth a F1?
Because what the Daniel trade initial cost us was a 2nd rounder but due to the desperation of picking up a tall in the 1st rd of this draft, the total cost was a F1

So again, is C.Daniel, a 27yo 168cm AA & Prem player worth the loss of F1? It doesn't matter if it went to the Tigers or Bulldogs the fact is that we traded out a pick position that we ultimately bought back with interest....and if we hand the Tigers F2 to the Bulldogs for pick 29 (25), as some of you speculate to get J.Whitlock, then in my wacky head, the Daniel deal ultimately costs us F1 and a highly rated F2 .

 

[Shermanator]

I suppose your point about perception is correct. We now know no other club would have used one of the first 27 picks on him, maybe more. So it would have still been a big overpay, but it at least would have been hidden from the public.

Our mighty club and 95% of our great fans couldn't give a flying **** what the public/opposition supporters perceive of us, the other 5% are the ones still having a whinge about our draft position next year after getting two highly rated players in the door already and a much sought after pick in 2025 on the way back..

Thanks for you're valuable input though..

 

[The Nostradamus]

Get stoked. We paid overs, but got another sheezel/mckercher PLUS FINALLY A KPF!!!!!!

Stuff future first. Let's get stmpf, shanahan or the other Whitlock.

Also us and Richmond the ONLY teams to grab KPF. So either no one rated them or no one needed them... who cares either way, we did it. We got a kpf. Wooooooooo!!!!!

He’s more a KPD than a KPF
But yes he can play either end

Hopefully we land a genuine KPF tonight

 

[Sphynx]

Pretty much says it all no? That pick 7 by all reports back to pick 10 potentially.

Other clubs vary of us rising to a 9th or 10th finish (pick 7 or 8) and us arguing we will have pick 4 or 5.

Paid overseas slightly, massively if we don't do well. We are backing ourselves the value system is flawed, but gee even though I melted down over this, the trade isn't the worst trade ever YET, and might end up being alright regardless

No.

You have applied bidding with Pick 27.

It started the night at Pick 23.

19 will blow out a similar value, if not more.

We need to make the 8.




IF we finish in the same position, we effectively give Richmond an additional First Rounder in value.

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Alright, fess up:

And that was after the Finn pick. Hope he has only one TV.

 

[BrownPaperBag]

No.

You have applied bidding with Pick 27.

It started the night at Pick 23.

19 will blow out a similar value, if not more.

We need to make the 8.

View attachment 2171457


IF we finish in the same position, we effectively give Richmond an additional First Rounder in value.

View attachment 2171459

Again we don’t need to do anything. Whitlock needs to work out.

This trade was obviously made for the player not the picks. It seems we rated him higher.

If you don’t think that much of him as a player that’s fine but in the clubs eyes the player is the key of the trade

 

[Supa_Nova]

No.

You have applied bidding with Pick 27.

It started the night at Pick 23.

19 will blow out a similar value, if not more.

We need to make the 8.

View attachment 2171457


IF we finish in the same position, we effectively give Richmond an additional First Rounder in value.

View attachment 2171459

Semantics

It's why the system is a fallacy. Doenst factor in we desperate for KPP nor that the first pick of round 2 generally people pay overs for anyway - and we got first pick next year last pick this year so have to pay overs.

I'll feel, and think we should all feel, 5-8 range is OK. Less then 5 we can hurt, more then 8 we can celebrate hard

 

[desie]

If River Stevens isn't selected tonight, can we get him for nothing in a rookie type way ?

This will be interesting.

It appears we’re headed for a choice on whether we take someone with our final pick in the mid 50’s or pass for River Stevens.

I’d be surprised if there weren’t players available that are higher on our board at that point.

 

[Sphynx]

Again we don’t need to do anything. Whitlock needs to work out.

This trade was obviously made for the player not the picks. It seems we rated him higher.

If you don’t think that much of him as a player that’s fine but in the clubs eyes the player is the key of the trade

I do think of him as a player.

But you need to separate the two issues.

Just because we rated him highly, doesn't mean we had to pay for how highly we rated him.

Why not pay the market value?

We've paid $500k over the market value of a house with very few other bidders, if any. What, because we like the house so much more than others?

 

[Stay Frosty]

Alright, fess up:

Is that an LG (Lifes Good)!

 

[King Corey]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-2024-north-melbourne-and-st-kildas-picks-in-the-top-10-are-nothing-to-worry-about-for-fans-despite-frustration/news-story/ceda0c47ea9b8f4c1a97f73497e242dd

On the surface, North Melbourne and St Kilda’s early draft selections were puzzling for their frustrated fanbases.
Short of talls, the Roos used their prized second selection to take another midfielder in Finn O’Sullivan.

It is the sixth midfielder they have taken inside the top 13 picks of the last four drafts: Colby McKercher, Harry Sheezel, George Wardlaw Jason Horne-Francis (traded to Port Adelaide), Will Phillips and Tom Powell.

Seven if Zane Duursma evolves into a goalkicking midfielder like he was as a junior.

Meanwhile, the Saints are crying out for a gamebreaking midfielder in the mould of O’Sullivan.

Finn O’Sullivan with new teammates Colby McKercher, Zane Duursma, Harry Sheezel and George Wardlaw after being selected. Picture: Michael Klein

With their back-to-back selections, they took playmaker Tobie Travaglia, who played primarily halfback this season, and 193cm defender Alix Tauru.

North Melbourne fans will be asking, why not a tall?

Saints supporters, with the consecutive selections of Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

25

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and Nick Coffield – now at the Western Bulldogs – seven years ago fresh in their memory, might be wondering why they didn’t look at a midfielder?

Let’s start with the Roos.

The golden rule of drafting at the top-end is to pick on talent, rather than needs.

Tauru had been initially strongly linked with North Melbourne, but there was always an element of risk in picking him that high.

Six months ago, the intercept king didn’t even figure a mention in AFL talent guru Kevin Sheehan’s top 75 prospects six months ago.

Since then he has risen up draft boards higher than his extraordinary leap, which wowed AFL recruiters in the second half of the year.

The Gippsland Power prospect has the traits and scope to potentially be the second best talent in the draft, but ultimately it would have been a reach.

Koroit midfielder Finn O’Sullivan has arguably been the best player in the draft class over the past three seasons despite an injury-riddled draft year.

Finn O'Sullivan bursts through a tackle. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

He was the best player at the U16 national championship, turned heads as a bottom-ager at the U18 carnival before a string of injuries – unlucky ones like hand and finger setbacks rather than ones of grave concern – curtailed his draft year.

Before that injury-riddled campaign he turned heads at Arden Street during his stint with the club as part of the AFL Academy.

The elephant in the room is their stacked engine room.

There is a definite squeeze into the future with Luke Davies-Uniacke

9

Luke Davies-uniacke

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

2.0

4star

D

7.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

1.2

4star

, Wardlaw, Sheezel, McKercher and now O’Sullivan.

But the damaging midfielder, who has maximum hurt-factor with his blistering speed, ball-use and soaring leap, is different to their current mix.

The Oakleigh Chargers product only needs 20 disposals to turn a game and may start on the outside at first, but he is the icing on the cake of a mouth-watering midfield mix.

O’Sullivan shared his draft moment with Wardlaw, Sheezel, McKercher and Duursma at Marvel Stadium and can’t wait to be part of their next generation with them.

“I’m happy to play anywhere, just get to training and put my best foot forward and see what happens,” O’Sullivan said after being drafted.

“They have got a great mix of midfielders through there, for me I’ll just bring my strengths. My running, my feeding it to teammates and stuff like that, my overhead marking,”

“With their group, they have got so many kids coming through but they have also got some younger boys who play a massive part in that as well and have got great leadership. So excited to be part of it.”

In the end the Roos got their key position prospect in Murray Bushrangers swingman Matt Whitlock, but at a huge cost, sacrificing their future first rounder.

Continues on...

Nobody with half a brain wondered why we didn't reach for a tall at #2.

Our much vaunted midfield currently has 0 AAs, AFLPA senior awards, AFLCA senior awards or Brownlow top 10s amongst them.

Other than Sheezel, none of the mids have any subjective (or objective) accolades or validation beyond the 4 walls of Arden Street.

Fair to say another mid prospect was definitely not surplus to needs.

 

[roos 10]

Just remember picks can be sold for cap space next year I am sure we will get back in first round with this

 

[Supa_Nova]

Nobody with half a brain wondered why we didn't reach for a tall at #2.

Our much vaunted midfield currently has 0 AAs, AFLPA senior awards, AFLCA senior awards or Brownlow top 10s amongst them.

Other than Sheezel, none of the mids have any subjective (or objective) accolades or validation beyond the 4 walls of Arden Street.

Fair to say another mid prospect was definitely not surplus to needs.

Whilst your on mate, complete melts over future 1st trade or kinda meh and ready to just get excited?

 

[Bashnek]

And that was after the Finn pick. Hope he has only one TV.

Its a pic cribbed from reddit that was posted back in Jan (but still v funny regardless)

 

[kool kangas]

North Big Footy (myself included): we need to do something to get back into this draft with the talls available

Brady & Co desperately gagging to sell F1 from pick 8 onwards and finally find a buyer willing to take advantage

North Big Footy (myself included): NO NOT THAT!!!!!

And North still have 1 more spot to fill...What could go wrong.

 

[BrownPaperBag]

I do think of him as a player.

But you need to separate the two issues.

Just because we rated him highly, doesn't mean we had to pay for how highly we rated him.

Why not pay the market value?

We've paid $500k over the market value of a house with very few other bidders, if any. What, because we like the house so much more than others?

I get the point you are making but I’ll put it this way

Say we got pick 12 for F1 and took him we wouldn’t be having the conversation.

If the club rated him as having the value of an F1 an argument could be made we got something else for it too (granted that is a rose coloured glasses view) but essentially, from our pov it’s clear that Whitlock is the value in the trade.

Yes Richmond got very good value for their part but again our focus and our criteria of the success of this deal will be Whitlock. If he is what we hope he will be then in time no one will care what it took to get him.

At points this year we had about 25 blokes who you could consider ready to play league footy. Now we have increased that kept 2 which we got an elite prospect and we got a KPP prospect. Based on potential we are close to having a really well balance list with prospects we can be relatively confident will be afl quality.

We’ve paid a lot sure but our list is definitely improved and for the first time since the nineties we have a truly elite young group of prospects.

This trade and draft period has been unorthodox no doubt but we have reason to be optimistic

 

[Lomas]

I'm fine with it. All of it. That Richmond pick next year will be valuable, if we keep it, and we got a KPP I rated. I actually thought we were going to do a straight swap to get Big W without the future 2nd for a moment last night.

 

[giantroo]

 

[ROOMAN]

So, if we have a player ranked at 18 available at Pick 75, should we trade a F2 for it because of that?

Not even sure what your point is- if we had done nothing the same clowns going on about this trade would be going off about doing nothing

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Ok so lets look at it another way.

Reports today that the club had MW ranked in our top 10. We need high end KPP's so that makes sense if true.

Lets say a few weeks ago we offered Richmond our F1 for their pick 11 and they agreed. We take FOS with pick 2 and MW with 11 and everyone goes "ya we got our gun big man and a gun mid" and we absolute don't care about the future first because everyone is happy and it's a compromised draft next year, yadda, yadda..

Fast forward to today and the result is this; We took FOS with pick 2, MW with pick 27 (17 picks after our rating board) and we potentially got THE BEST SECOND ROUND PICK OF THE 2025 DRAFT thrown in as ****ing steak knives!
Cue the sudden outrage over our future first next year.. WTF?!

So...

Pick 2 (FOS) + F1 for RFC pick 11 (Whitlock) = good drafting.

Pick 2 (FOS) + F1 for RFC pick 27 (Whitlock) + 2025 pick 19 = worst drafting of all time....

Am I in ****ing bizarro land???..

Thing is, did any other club have Matt Whitlock in their Top 10? Doesn't look like it. Why would we be right and all the other clubs are wrong?

 

[brooksnk]

You are all way too attached to numbers such as draft pick number and draft pick value number, lucky players win you flags not numbers. The number is irrelevant once it's been spent on a player.

Jobe and Jack were still on the board and we picked Matt, which tells us it is very likely we had him as our 2nd best tall on our board after Tauru due to his versatility which Clarko loves in players.

So many on here were calling for us to trade our F1 for a key forward between picks 8-14 or whatever. North offered f1 to every club after Tauru went at 10, which means it is very likely we were willing to do a straight swap of F1 for say pick 11 and take Whitlock. No one would have batted an eyelid if that happened. We were very open we were wanting to trade our F1 into this draft along with about 10 other clubs. I think it worked out brilliantly the way it did. Instead of a straight swap of F1 for Whitlock, he dropped all the way down to 27 and because of that, we got him AS WELL AS pick 19 next year.

I think you all need to calm the **** down and reassess why you were so happy to trade f1 for a gun key forward but when we did and got something back, you're outraged? Stop reading other club's fan's opinions and media opinions if that's also getting you worked up. Just sit back and enjoy watching the most talented young list in the comp have a ripper pre season and surprise a few next year.

Great trade. Welcome Finn and Matt to the greatest club in the land.

A poor negotiator trades based predominantly on how they value the player. A smart negotiator will anticipate what the market values that player, and will seek to strike a trade that fits the market's perception, not their own.

Just about everyone had the Whitlocks going between 20-30, with Faull and Shanahan also in that range. Logic says at least two of them ought to fall there - and as it turns out, 3 of them will have come after pick 27.

Sure, we might have valued M Whitlock at 13, but just because we do, we shouldn't corner ourselves into having to pay pick 13 value when it was clear that Whitlock (or else another KPF we rated similarly) would be available at pick 27+.

This is what makes it poor list management.

 

[kool kangas]

Could our F2 be destined to bringing his brother in tomorrow too?

It could but only if another club doesn't decide to pick him up first...No doubt if North want Jack Whitlock then they will be offering our F2nd to every club until Jack is off the table....

 

[giantroo]

 

[spurs]

I’d like us to use our F2 and grab Shanahan or the other twin tonight.