List Mgmt. The 2024 Draft (Nov 20/21)

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Drafted

• Bo Allan - Pick 16
• Jobe Shanahan - Pick 30
• Tom Gross - Pick 46
• Lucca Grego - Pick 48
• Hamish Davis - Pick 65
• Malakai Champion - Cat B

List Spots Available

• One on either main OR rookie list to be filled as a SSP selection following train on assessments

Trade and draft period

In: F1, F2, F3, Baker, Owies, Graham, Allan, Shanahan, Gross, Grego, Davis, Champion
Out: 3, 63, F3, F4, Barrass, Darling

 

[JackOutback]

How is Baker a middling player?

His b&f finishes:

2019: 13th
2020: 6th
2021: 2nd
2022: 4th
2023: 6th
2024: 5th

2 of those in premiership years and others when the club was near the bottom, yet his form remained consistent, neither a downhill skier nor someone who gives up when things are tough.
A premiership player in his 2nd season and from there a consistent player - something we sorely lack!

Feel a lot of people are massively undervaluing Baker and looking for conspiracy theories on why we got him and Graham in.

B&Fs aren't the best indicator as each club judges them differently and often they reward consistency and simply games played. Yes, he finished second in 2021 but even then, would you pick him ahead of Bolton, Reiwoldt, Martin, Lynch, Cotchin and Rioli, who all finished behind him? Surely no one is suggesting Baker is among the game's elite? He's a useful role player.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Fair call...maybe include #3, #14 and the Clarke topic also? (yawn)

At least someone start a bash clarke thread where people can go an talk to their hearts content. It's just boring in this thread now.

 

[Obeanie1]

So what's the appeal of giving Brock a train on spot?

Coming off a rookie list, never cracked an AFL game, delisted after only 3 years when KPP are usually given more time to develop. Doesn't exactly scream "AFL quality" does it?

A skinny 198cm 20 year old played in a winning VFL premiership.

Picked up as a rookie.

Suns were required to cut deep after losing its extra rookie spots and getting another academy haul in.

Guess how long it took McGovern to debut.

Or Ben McKay.

 

[ghostbat12]

B&Fs aren't the best indicator as each club judges them differently and often they reward consistency and simply games played. Yes, he finished second in 2021 but even then, would you pick him ahead of Bolton, Reiwoldt, Martin, Lynch, Cotchin and Rioli, who all finished behind him? Surely no one is suggesting Baker is among the game's elite? He's a useful role player.

And we didn’t pay as much as Bolton, Riewoldt, lynch, Cotchin and Rioli.

No one has ever said he is game’s elite and we didn’t pay as though he is game’s elite.

But high b&f means he has high impact. Shite players don’t finish high in b&f.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

The problem is the baker trade appears to be more than just short term thinking - it’s patronage. That doesn’t really change whether you include graham or not as part of a broader baker package, and if anything it makes it worse. We paid more than we should have for these guys because of relationships formed outside of our football club.

I would argue if a coach needs to bring in middling senior players (using serious draft capital) just to help them “teach the new game style”, then they aren’t really very confident in their ability to coach, and they’ve sold a part of our long term future for their own short term gain. Getting people in cheap is fine, but using serious draft capital is risky and not good for our long term future.

Nobody really knows how this off season will turn out long term, especially the draft part. We are almost all unanimously happy with our drafting this year, so we can all be hopeful we’ve got that bit right, but we shouldn’t let that paper over the cracks of what was pretty clearly a weak trade period (not draft) with some particularly weak negotiating in terms of price.




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I would argue that bringing in 2 experienced players who knows the style of play your want to teach, facilitates and expedites this process. I would argue you know exactly what and how you want it done, and see an avenue to the fast track the process.

Also, it didn't cost us serious draft capital in the end. And it preserved all of next year's draft capital. This has been highlighted ad nauseum above.

Lastly, we haven't papered over the cracks. We delisted 10 and dare I say might have even gone a couple more. This time next year we will lose another 6 and replace with 5/6 more 18yo. After that we will have something like 30 of 44 on our list under the age of 24. The crack are wide open, and the mature age player we bought in (baker owes, Graham) will allow this kids to develop. Development isn't papering over the cracks.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JackOutback]

But high b&f means he has high impact.

This is the part I disagree with. Someone above posted Liam Duggan's consistently high B&F finishes. I don't rate him a high impact player either. Both are consistently reliable. Neither are worth pick 14 precisely because they don't impact the game I would expect a good first rounder to. Both probably worth a second round pick (something like, say, 26).

 

[Off Tap]

Can we put a ban on discussing Baker in this thread? Relitigating something that has happened, without adding anything new that hasn't been said multiple times over the various trade/draft threads should see a card issued!

Banning people from having an opinion on the internet that you don't like. You sound a bit like that Albo bloke in Canberra.

 

[Pully]

Banning people from having an opinion on the internet that you don't like. You sound a bit like that Albo bloke in Canberra.

I think he just meant in this thread not on the board. Someone mentioned starting a new one just to discuss this which i think would be best.

 

[TheBudgies]

Ryan looks shot.

Hough and Ginbey are under Baker.

Gov wont be around in 3 years.

Kelly could also be done.

This is way underrating Hough and Ginbey, could be a pretty incredible duo in the backline going forward.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

This is way underrating Hough and Ginbey, could be a pretty incredible duo in the backline going forward.

I believe the same for Hough and Reuben, but watch Baker still be the best performed of the 3 this season. I think the young boys still look to have the higher ceiling though too

 

[TheBudgies]

I believe the same for Hough and Reuben, but watch Baker still be the best performed of the 3 this season. I think the young boys still look to have the higher ceiling though too

Allan on the other HBF with Ginbey both hard players with long kicks could be seriously good for field position. Hough playing lock down Baker playing deeper as a high pressure quick player. I'm quietly optimistic about the next 12 months.

Not suggesting we make the big dance this year or next but I'm not upset with the state of the list right now. Think the fact we are actually discussing who our better players are is such a nice change.

 

[squashface]

Dons sign ex-Lion, Narkle a Docker, Dogs to trial VFL champ

A former Brisbane defender has landed at his father's old club on the first day of the pre-season supplemental selection period

www.afl.com.au

Essendon has signed Jaxon Prior for those who were interested.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I don't know that much about Owies. I know has kicked a few goals for Carlton.

But is he one of those small forwards who doesn't snap or shark many goals and relies on having the ball kicked to him on the lead so he can a set shot to kick his goals? Or can he genuinely create goals out of nothing and by crumbing etc? And does he put any defensive pressure on?

If he is just another small forward who plays tall and takes marks but can't create anything at ground level then i don't know why we chased him. There is an spot for a small forward but the type of small forward we need is a crumbing small forward who also applies pressure to the ball coming out of defence.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Banning people from having an opinion on the internet that you don't like. You sound a bit like that Albo bloke in Canberra.

Mate, i agree that they should have done better on the pick split and what we gave up for Baker.

But that is over. Have no problem if go bitch elsewhere, not the draft thread where it's been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[jatz14]

Banning people from having an opinion on the internet that you don't like. You sound a bit like that Albo bloke in Canberra.

Making false assertions, you sound like a certain orange ****.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Patron]

I would argue that bringing in 2 experienced players who knows the style of play your want to teach, facilitates and expedites this process. I would argue you know exactly what and how you want it done, and see an avenue to the fast track the process.

Also, it didn't cost us serious draft capital in the end. And it preserved all of next year's draft capital. This has been highlighted ad nauseum above.

Lastly, we haven't papered over the cracks. We delisted 10 and dare I say might have even gone a couple more. This time next year we will lose another 6 and replace with 5/6 more 18yo. After that we will have something like 30 of 44 on our list under the age of 24. The crack are wide open, and the mature age player we bought in (baker owes, Graham) will allow this kids to develop. Development isn't papering over the cracks.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

I just can’t agree on the draft capital bit. My initial post was highlighting with regret how we paid 14 for baker in a year where > Sydney were willing to pay 19 and 22 for 14 > and north were willing to pay their F1 with a second coming back for 27.

Ergo trading 14 snowballed on us to the point where it could have been turned into pick 22 this year and north’s F1 next.

Hopefully I’m underrating baker and he better than Duggan for us and is our sixth best player or something like that. But even if that’s true would you say if a team offered us north’s F1 and 22 this year for Duggan you wouldn’t have wanted to pack his bags?

Probably a bit of a tired overdone conversation now anyways.


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[Deplorable trumpster]

Making false assertions, you sound like a certain orange ****.

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

What are the false assertions you speak of?

Or is it just that he has an opinion you don't like but don't have any intelligent rebuttal to and there he must be banned? There is a difference between opinions you don't like and false assertions or "misinformation" as the commies call it.

 

[KBLT]

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

What are the false assertions you speak of?

Or is it just that he has an opinion you don't like but don't have any intelligent rebuttal to and there he must be banned? There is a difference between opinions you don't like and false assertions or "misinformation" as the commies call it.

Let's take the political chat elsewhere

 

[Seadog]

What are the false assertions you speak of?

Or is it just that he has an opinion you don't like but don't have any intelligent rebuttal to and there he must be banned? There is a difference between opinions you don't like and false assertions or "misinformation" as the commies call it.

There is a difference between opinion and facts.
And that's a fact.

 

[RuffMagician]

I'm hoping Warner re-signs for Sydney to take the option off the table.

Be nice to load up with some more early picks

*But I'd also be happy to get him lol

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For sure, but knowing our recent history of trading, we'd end up giving them 3x first rounders and a couple of seconds.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

[Doashuey]

So what's the appeal of giving Brock a train on spot?

Coming off a rookie list, never cracked an AFL game, delisted after only 3 years when KPP are usually given more time to develop. Doesn't exactly scream "AFL quality" does it?

For the Brock and Grunston overused and unfunny joke value.

 

[larrikin]

Comes fitted with the Polariser.

That's niche. And I love it.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Prior gone is a kick in the testi's.

Would've been handy.

 

[Obeanie1]

This is way underrating Hough and Ginbey, could be a pretty incredible duo in the backline going forward.

100% in the near future.

But not straight away.

3 x premiership players are rated ahead of kids with 50 games IMO.