20 Disposals and a goal

[Cleansweep17]

Not a negation? So an addition? Sorry I'm having trouble understanding some of your phrasing. Take your time when responding.

I do rate 2019 elite as I, with my own brain having watched the season, thought he deserved a spot in the AA side ahead of Cox in a forward pocket.

An AA squad of 44 selection does not automatically make your status elite though, no. It is pretty hard to argue that any player making the AA side of 22 was not elite or close to it. An attacking midfielder hitting mid 40s coaches votes as a 22-24 year old? You can do better than that. Ablett as a 23 year old was already winning League MVPs and the coaches association award with 105 votes. Elite.

Ah yes the eye test strikes again. I honestly don’t believe you took notice of Dusty pre 17 as with most people cause he played in a shit team. Hence why nobody on here seemed to know he averaged 20 and 1 on those 2014 and 2015 squad selections as well which answered the tread topic. Believe it or not Dusty is underrated, you’ve pretty much halved the number of his elite seasons (cause let’s face it you don’t want him in GOAT debates) then call us delusional when we defend him. Well done, totally unbiased.

 

[Mr Meow]

Ah yes the eye test strikes again. I honestly don’t believe you took notice of Dusty pre 17 as with most people cause he played in a s**t team. Hence why nobody on here seemed to know he averaged 20 and 1 on those 2014 and 2015 squad selections as well which answered the tread topic. Believe it or not Dusty is underrated, you’ve pretty much halved the number of his elite seasons (cause let’s face it you don’t want him in GOAT debates) then call is delusional when we defend him. Well done.

No need to get hysterical. There isn't some conspiracy or vendetta if someone doesn't share your view. To answer a tread topic I'd need a good pair of shoes.

5 elite seasons is a hell of an effort. Be proud of your man and what he produced. Some things burn bright and quickly.

 

[Fadge]

What is this where people are now using AA Squad selection to determine whether or not a season was elite?

Taranto was clearly Richmond's best player whilst the 2023 season was on the line.

Martin made up ground in the Richmond b&f once finals were out of the question, to get within 20% of Taranto's total votes.

But Martin was elite in 2023, yet Taranto wasn't?

 

[Cleansweep17]

No need to get hysterical. There isn't some conspiracy or vendetta if someone doesn't share your view. To answer a tread topic I'd need a good pair of shoes.

5 elite seasons is a hell of an effort. Be proud of your man and what he produced. Some things burn bright and quickly.

Sort of like Gary’s time at Geelong. Good for like 3-4 years there. Suns were lucky they got him in his prime.

 

[Mr Meow]

Sort of like Gary’s time at Geelong. Good for like 3-4 years there. Suns were lucky they got him in his prime.

And with that it looks like you've soiled yourself and are going to try for playground insults.

We've thus landed on 5 elite Martin seasons, below the 11x 20/1 seasons that were "proof". It's nice to be able to move on.

 

[Cleansweep17]

And with that it looks like you've soiled yourself and are going to try for playground insults.

We've thus landed on 5 elite Martin seasons, below the 11x 20/1 seasons that were "proof". It's nice to be able to move on.

No it’s a fact and relevant to our discussion. I’m just using your logic.

He got AAs in 07-10 at Geelong. So those are 4 elite seasons. I like you disregarded the 2019 AA squad at Geelong due to my eye test.

Don’t take credit for Gary’s achievements at the Suns it’s quite sad. You only had him for 4 good years, some things burn bright and quickly.

 

[RUNVS]

You dodged the question. Do you rate AA squad selections as elite or not?

No as that would mean there are 40 elite players in the AFL and that number is far too high.

 

[Noidnadroj]

You sound like a bit of a fanny when you start with "oh dear". Let's avoid that.

Check the AA thread starting at page 1 and finishing on the final page. Well, don't do it if you don't want to find it. You were in there arguing with those who didn't consider Martin's season as elite though so maybe this is selective amnesia.

Being elite for 1/3 of a season and not for 2/3 of the season doesn't cut the mustard in most people's eyes. A few Martin adorers and Hoyne thought otherwise. Time to deal with the fact that wasn't a majority view.

Oh deary me

Direct me to where someone specifically said they were shocked/disappointed/aghast that Martin made the AA squad? Can u do that?

And his season was elite according to objective data, his coaches, and the AA selectors who said he was in the best 5-6% of players for 2023… that’ll do me. I accept you and many others don’t believe it was… I’ll choose the data over your and others biased opinions, that’s cool. I will agree to disagree.

Anyway.. where’s that link to the majority who you said were disputing his AA squad selection, which could only have happened after the squad was announced ? You got that yet?


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[RUNVS]

The All Australian really is the best award in determining how good a player is over the course of their career and considering the AA is very generous to midfielders, often sticking them in pockets and such and also usually having 2 or 3 on the bench it isn't that great for Martin that he has only been an AA 4 times.

 

[Mr Meow]

No it’s a fact and relevant to our discussion. I’m just using your logic.

He got AAs in 07-10 at Geelong. So those are 4 elite seasons. I like you disregarded the 2019 AA squad at Geelong due to my eye test.

Don’t take credit for Gary’s achievements at the Suns it’s quite sad. You only had him for 4 good years, some things burn bright and quickly.

You've degenerated into your usual nonsense now. It is sad to try and pass of any players greatness as your own, but you can still rate some players higher than others. Where they played doesn't change that, something your mouth frothing tribalism will never be able to comprehend.

I'm not going to derail this thread any further. We've yet to see any neutrals come in and declare Martin at 8-11 elite seasons. It's a shame.

 

[Cleansweep17]

No as that would mean there are 40 elite players in the AFL and that number is far too high.

How many players in the comp? 700? Puts you around the top 5%. That’s pretty elite.

 

[The 747]

Thread went as expected.

 

[Mr Meow]

Oh deary me

Direct me to where someone specifically said they were shocked/disappointed/aghast that Martin made the AA squad? Can u do that?

And his season was elite according to objective data, his coaches, and the AA selectors who said he was in the best 5-6% of players for 2023… that’ll do me. I accept you and many others don’t believe it was… I’ll choose the data over your and others biased opinions, that’s cool. I will agree to disagree.

Anyway.. where’s that link to the majority who you said were disputing his AA squad selection, which could only have happened after the squad was announced ? You got that yet?


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Fanny.

I'm not finding the AA thread for you. In fact you were posting in there.

I'd avoid it if you don't want to be reminded.

Of course every opinion you have is "data backed" and endorsed by unbiased heavyweights such as MR, blaisee, Aristotle and Falcon.

Ultimately you've never been happy with Martin's standing of 5 elite seasons and I will never be happy or unhappy bringing it up.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Everyone took notice of him in 2016 when he stepped up. Someone of his talent should've been making AA teams, not squads, before then and winning a handful of best and fairests in that mediocre side. In only one season did he win any of the League MVP, Coaches Association Award or Brownlow (all the same year).

How many times did he make the top 5 or top 10 of the coaches votes leaderboard? I can tell you - not many.

Still he did enough for all of 2016-2020 to be considered elite, the rest good but not elite. I'm only telling you the majority view. You don't have to accept it.

You got the thread discussing Martin’s elite status or otherwise from 2010-2023? Or did you just make it up that the majority have the same
view as you? I’ve never seen that thread or discussion on it. You got a link?


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[Cleansweep17]

Fanny.

I'm not finding the AA thread for you. In fact you were posting in there.

I'd avoid it if you don't want to be reminded.

Of course every opinion you have is "data backed" and endorsed by unbiased heavyweights such as MR, blaisee, Aristotle and Falcon.

Ultimately you've never been happy with Martin's standing of 5 elite seasons and I will never be happy or unhappy bringing it up.

Beats Gary’s 4 at Geelong and i’ll never be unhappy bringing it up. Especially when we retired him in the 2020 GF, going b2b whilst creating a dynasty, beating your 3 in 4 and Dustys record NS medal. Mint, thanks so much couldn’t have done it without our bunnies.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Also worth noting those seasons outside 2016-2020 where he made the AA squad he all averaged above 20/25 and 1. I think it really answers the debate tbh. Now it really depends on whether you think AA squad sections are elite or not. Most would say yes.

Given the above now you see why Tigers supporters have a particular issue with underrating our players. You’ve literally halved/almost halved the amount of elite seasons he’s had.

Meow is not the majority view.

He said Harry Taylor with 5 x AA squad selections, 2 x AA, 1 x top-3 in B&F had 7-8 elite seasons.

Martin with 8 x AA squad selections, 4 x AA, 9 x top-3 B&F has only 5.

He barracks for Geelong. Can you tell? Bahaha.


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[Cleansweep17]

Meow is not the majority view.

He said Harry Taylor with 5 x AA squad selections, 2 x AA, 1 x top-3 in B&F had 7-8 elite seasons.

Martin with 8 x AA squad selections, 4 x AA, 9 x top-3 B&F has only 5.

He barracks for Geelong. Can you tell? Bahaha.


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Oh dear I almost forgot how cooked his opinions are. Gold

 

[Mr Meow]

The All Australian really is the best award in determining how good a player is over the course of their career and considering the AA is very generous to midfielders, often sticking them in pockets and such and also usually having 2 or 3 on the bench it isn't that great for Martin that he has only been an AA 4 times.

Martin as an attacking midfielder who rotates forward is best favoured of any player to make the AA best 22 and squad of 40. His dual position status makes him perfect for the flank and you're right they stuff as many midfielders in as possible, so one who can be popped on the flank is ideal. A real forward will more often than not be sacrificed.

In 2015, around 30 of the AA squad of 40 were forwards or midfielders. If you're in the lower end of those 30 as a forward/midfielder, you are not by default elite.

Now if you've won a a BnF or are top 10 or even top 20 in the coaches votes? You're starting to build a case. 20+ disposals and 1+ isn't the gold stamp that locks it in.

 

[Mr Meow]

Meow is not the majority view.

He said Harry Taylor with 5 x AA squad selections, 2 x AA, 1 x top-3 in B&F had 7-8 elite seasons.

Martin with 8 x AA squad selections, 4 x AA, 9 x top-3 B&F has only 5.

He barracks for Geelong. Can you tell? Bahaha.


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Have a look at how many defenders make the AA squad of 40, then how many KPDs, and compare to how many midfielders/forwards (which Martin has qualified for positionally basically every season). You are getting 27-30 forwards/midfielders compared to about 10 defenders.

 

[Mr Meow]

Beats Gary’s 4 at Geelong and i’ll never be unhappy bringing it up. Especially when we retired him in the 2020 GF, going b2b whilst creating a dynasty, beating your 3 in 4 and Dustys record NS medal. Mint, thanks so much couldn’t have done it without our bunnies.

Generic trolling 101.

And you wonder why people have laughed at each account.

It's always a sign you've been upset at a difference of opinion, so a delicious concession of defeat. Keep them coming.

 

[Cleansweep17]

You've degenerated into your usual nonsense now. It is sad to try and pass of any players greatness as your own, but you can still rate some players higher than others. Where they played doesn't change that, something your mouth frothing tribalism will never be able to comprehend.

I'm not going to derail this thread any further. We've yet to see any neutrals come in and declare Martin at 8-11 elite seasons. It's a shame.

Most would agree that an AA squad selection makes an elite season. So it’s 8

Unfortunately most people aren’t aware he made selections in 2014-2015. Or even the AA team in 2016 tbh. I’ve debated fools that say his only elite seasons were 2017 and 2020. And you wonder why we say he’s underrated. I don’t think any player in the history of the game has been stripped of his awards more than Dusty. Apparently 2 of his norms weren’t legit either. His greatness/records is evident and people like you feel threatened by it as your players didn’t achieve it so you have to discredit him. It’s pretty normal.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Generic trolling 101.

And you wonder why people have laughed at each account.

It's always a sign you've been upset at a difference of opinion, so a delicious concession of defeat. Keep them coming.

No it’s just a fact your loss enabled those things. Must burn knowing you could’ve stopped all that with just a few goals and we’d essentially have nothing “great” to debate with. It’s not a troll you just don’t like it.

 

[STPer18]

"But-but-but Dustie made the AA SQUAD!"

God it's pathetic. Find a new tune, this one's not the sweet melody you think it is.

 

[Mr Meow]

Most would agree that an AA squad selection makes an elite season. So it’s 8

Unfortunately most people aren’t aware he made selections in 2014-2015. Or even the AA team in 2016 tbh. I’ve debated fools that say his only elite seasons were 2017 and 2020. And you wonder why we say he’s underrated. I don’t think any player in the history of the game has been stripped of his awards more than Dusty. Apparently 2 of his norms weren’t legit either. His greatness/records is evident and people like you feel threatened by it as your players didn’t achieve it so you have to discredit him. It’s pretty normal.

This really tugs at the heart strings.

If you need it that much we can just pretend it's 8 and you move on, happy? I don't actually want this stuff to take a toll on you. It's a majority opinion. You're allowed to think Richmond fans would have a less biased view of Martin than everybody else. Maybe go with that?

 

[Mr Meow]

No it’s just a fact your loss enabled those things. Must burn knowing you could’ve stopped all that with just a few goals and we’d essentially have nothing “great” to debate with. It’s not a troll you just don’t like it.

I wasn't aware I was even playing. You're really digging the barrel now.

Most Geelong fans have no problem with Richmond. We just enjoy laughing at a few of their lunatics fans and their desperate need for validation. Case in point here.