List Mgmt. 2011 AFL Rookie Draft

[LifeSpan-Void]

some of you guys in here act like your from the posh goody goody suburbs and never put a foot wrong in your lives!

Get real and look at what we can do to make the club an even greater side to beat in 2012.
We have lost Menzel, Ling, Ottens who are extremely valuable players and we have a couple of ex-guns out there for hardly no $$$ that can help Geelong solidify a top 4 spot and push for back2back flags.

I couldn't give a stuff if we have a couple of gay footballers, ex-jail birds or gambling addicts, as long as they produce on the footy field then it's fine by me and am pretty confident Chris Scott would definitely have a serious look at Lovett considering his abilities on the field.

It's not that these guys have put a foot wrong once or twice, but are serial offenders that not only will not follow club rules, but in some instances actively seek to undermine club values. Look at how eager Brisbane was to shunt Fev from his contract after the flashing allegations. A team who needed every possible leg up just to be competitive and they removed him from their list outright. Look at Lovett, gone from St Kilda without a single game to his name - even before the rape allegations there were whispers that he was not a popular addition to their list. Hird told Thompson that he wouldn't touch Lovett with a 10 foot pole, that from a TEAM MATE. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

[tomthabuddah]

Im with the Bob, who thought we would get the Pod then the Big O. Geelong does tend to suprise.

The current list are no angels. Mistakes have been made by many, including 2 norm smith medalists.

If the player voted for Lovett, id accept him.

 

[vinum coupe]

couldn't give a stuff what you or anyone says.....it's my opinion that Lovett would make Geelong an even better club and if you don't like it then too bad!

Again..............how did your Collingwood magpies go this year?

There's a bunch of posts above this one that suggest your opinion is worth jack.

I'd go on with it but I have a 4 and 8 year old and I limit myself to two kiddie conversations per day.

 

[AM]

Im with the Bob, who thought we would get the Pod then the Big O. Geelong does tend to suprise.

The current list are no angels. Mistakes have been made by many, including 2 norm smith medalists.

If the player voted for Lovett, id accept him.

During his time with the Bombers, Lovett created a poor off-field reputation. He missed numerous training sessions, was fined for driving without a license, arrested for being drunk in a public place and was issued a court intervention order in 2006 following an assault on his then girlfriend.

Yeah! You're right, let's go get him.

Source. The Roar.com.au 27/07/2011

 

[Budda 230]

1 or 2 players don't ruin a strong football club culture, especially one as established as Geelong's. St Kilda has become a mess for a reason. That reason wasn't Andrew Lovett. There was something already existing.

I'm a bit surprised with the doubt in our culture here. Eventhough I don't really see Fev or Lovett as the answers, I'm extremely confident they would succeed at Geelong.

 

[Geelong2k9]

1 or 2 players don't ruin a strong football club culture, especially one as established as Geelong's. St Kilda has become a mess for a reason. That reason wasn't Andrew Lovett. There was something already existing.

I'm a bit surprised with the doubt in our culture here. Eventhough I don't really see Fev or Lovett as the answers, I'm extremely confident they would succeed at Geelong.

As am I. Our culture that has been developed and nurtured for years has become the envy of others and is rock solid. I would be extremely confident for a Lovett, Fevola, etc. to come into the fold and "give it a go".

Whilst I do not think it would happen at all (as I think Simpkin, Bathie, etc. are the candidates to step up to senior list next), to think that Geelong wouldnt do their homework at all on these people is foolish to say the least. For **** sake, we picked up a runner in the hope he might play some footy next year. Have some faith in what we are doing.

 

[CaptainZiggy]

Brendan Fevola WILL be rookied by us.

There's a range of arguments that support us taking him from a purely football perspective,and they are quite compelling.
Daniel Menzels absence from the forward line next year will be telling....and we don't have anyone on the list who jumps out as a ready replacement for the role he played.
Fevola plays similarly though....so there's an arguement for taking him on that basis alone.
Vardy won't be ready at the beginning of the year...and perhaps not until mid season based on the scant info that's drifting out of the Cattery,so he aint an option up forward.
Pods shoulder looked ugly...and given he's not a youngster,his recovery time will be a bit longer than what we'd hope I believe....and the reality is that he will get that shoulder belted as often as we all have hot dinners in EVERY game he plays until his career is over....because that's par for the course in pro sport....no matter what the code.Worst case scenario is that it goes again early in the season,and with no Vardy,and no Menzel,we'd suddenly be relying on Hawkins to provide ALL the arial work.Sure,Jimmy could go down there,but with no Ling or Ottens at the bounce,he's going to be needed in the midfield next year more than ever....especially since Chappy and his aging groin/hammies is not someone I'd want to be designing my midfield around.....so Jimmy isn't really an option.
Stevie J has gotten off the ground once in his entire career,and how he didn't dislocate his hip the way he landed in that Sydney game still has me wincing,so we couldn't rely on him either to support Hawkins.
Fevola can jump....and crash packs....and tackle ferociously when he's "on song and motivated"....so there's an added argument as to why we need him.

Having said all that...none of those reasons is why I believe he's a monty to be taken.

I'd like those with decent memories to jump back about 8 or 9 years to a Monday night at the beginning of Grand Final week.
Brownlow medal at the Casino....with one Sam Newman doing interviews......and he was half wacked.My memory is that most people that night seemed drunk....players and interviewers alike.A hot night I think,so perhaps that was the reason.
It was during that evening,that Matthew Scarlett made his first ever on camera comments.Up till that point,he was known as the man who refused to speak to the media,and while that would have meant being ignored by the media if it was anyone else,in Matthew's case,it seemed if anything to advance his reputation with the journos.

Not this night.
It was a female reporter that stuck a microphone in his face,and I remember being gobsmacked that he was actually talking.Not a lot mind you,because he was with another bloke that wouldn't shut up.They had arms around each other's shoulders,and Scarlo forwarded the info that they were mates.Both were half sozzled,and it was a very entertaining quick interview that stuck with me,because I was a bit surprised.

Surprised,because his mate was of course one B.Fevola.

Throw that into the mix,and suddenly lots of little things make sense.
His manager said a Victorian club was interested.
Not a Melbourne club.....a Victorian club.
Everyone has said they aren't interested.....except us,who haven't said squat.
Stevie J and Josh Hunt are going to walk the Kakoda trail....and take who with them?
Both larrikins in their younger days of course.....and one of the reasons Brent Maloney was traded,as he and Josh were mates at the time,and I suspect they thought were going to get into more trouble than they were worth and one had to go...and that was Brent.
Common denominator....alcohol combined with public stupidity....so again,who better to take Brendon away and see how his head was,than our two reformed drunks.

I know many Cat fans who thought SJ was beyond redemption when he was banished to the twos.
I know many who thought we should offload Matthew Stokes...and many who thought it an impossibilty that Cam Mooney would ever be able to control his temper.

The fact that they have not only redeemed themselves as men,but have become legends for our great club,speaks volumes for the attitudes and culture that have become benchmarks that others aspire to,and has the word "redemption" a common utterance when referring to our club.

According to reports,his time at the Scorpions was exemplary,as was the mentoring he provided to the youngsters at the club.
Do leopards change their spots?......somtimes.........and if there is a club that provides the culture to make such changes,then surely it's ours.

He kicked 11 on the weekend....and you don't do that if there aint a goal you're seeking...not at his age.....and I believe he's on a promise.

He'll come...and he'll be good....because you don't let a mate like Scarlo down....and Brendan lives for his mates,which is why the Lions was such a bad fit for him....and why we are such a good one.


First post here after lurking for many joyful years reading the thoughts of fellow supporters......so please be kind.....lol.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

1 or 2 players don't ruin a strong football club culture, especially one as established as Geelong's. St Kilda has become a mess for a reason. That reason wasn't Andrew Lovett. There was something already existing.

I'm a bit surprised with the doubt in our culture here. Eventhough I don't really see Fev or Lovett as the answers, I'm extremely confident they would succeed at Geelong.

Part of a strong culture is having the ability to say "this player does not fall within the standards that the club adheres to". The club won 3 flags without these clowns, there is no point introducing uncertainty to the plan that Scott had when he applied for the job.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

It's not that these guys have put a foot wrong once or twice, but are serial offenders that not only will not follow club rules, but in some instances actively seek to undermine club values. Look at how eager Brisbane was to shunt Fev from his contract after the flashing allegations. A team who needed every possible leg up just to be competitive and they removed him from their list outright. Look at Lovett, gone from St Kilda without a single game to his name - even before the rape allegations there were whispers that he was not a popular addition to their list. Hird told Thompson that he wouldn't touch Lovett with a 10 foot pole, that from a TEAM MATE. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

hey don't get me wrong..Lovett sounds like a prick off the footy field but I am an individual who always believes if you put the steps in place to rectify those bad addictions most of us have/had and are willing to accept problems whilst trying to balance it out with everyday life and football then you deserve another chance if you are upto the standards of course.

I wouldn't say Essendon or St Kilda have had the best off-field incidents over the past decade so I wouldn't look at them and judge an individuals character considering some of the things that have recently happened etc.

I know his rape case was pretty severe but he was found not guilty and this is the courts we are talking about and they do not f*ck around and allow any leniency whatsoever so if he was found not guilty then accept it no matter how much crap you have read about the person beforehand.
Women throw themselves at rugby/footy/sportsman on a weekly basis and they do so to make shit loads of cash and gain popularity, am not saying he didn't do what was alleged but at the end of the day...no one has the right to call him a rapist unless he was infact found guilty.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Void you really believe St Kilda are good well-established football club do you?
You say he was never liked from the start and De-listed immediately...perhaps he didn't want to take part in their nude photo shoots so they denounced him?

Explain to me why you feel St Kilda's opinion on an individual would be worth posting as you did so?

I think half of you in here must have shunned after hearing Gary Ablett senior's name inducted into the hall of fame

 

[tomthabuddah]

Part of a strong culture is having the ability to say "this player does not fall within the standards that the club adheres to". The club won 3 flags without these clowns, there is no point introducing uncertainty to the plan that Scott had when he applied for the job.

That is fine and i tend to agree, but the way some posters describe their opinion seems to suggest there is no room for debate. There is debate going on internally about Lovett, of that I am sure.

 

[Turbocat]

Brendan Fevola WILL be rookied by us.

.....

First post here after lurking for many joyful years reading the thoughts of fellow supporters......so please be kind.....lol.

Welcome CaptZ. WILL is a strong assertion.

I doubt we will but I've been wrong before. I sort of look at Cousins and wonder was it really worth it for the club. Sure for him it was beneficial but the club...?
Now if Pods should is bad as well as Menzel being out perhaps we might look at a seasoned option , as we have with OrrenS but till it happens I remain skeptical. The goals he kicks up north are almost meaningless, its a different game up there , almost soft compared to AFL. He does still have talent but is it AFL talent?

The questions for me -
is he capable of playing todays style footy , could he become fit enough to play good AFL footy , could he play within our team structure being a bit player , has his fall from grace finally got it home to him or is it just till he yet again finds a way to get excused of previous misdemeanors...

The one thing I will give him is he is a big time player with the right mindset to play well on the big stage. Could he work in our forwardline? Would it be good or bad for Hawkins? Just lot of answers that I dont know so from the outside Id say look elsewhere

 

[AM]

That is fine and i tend to agree, but the way some posters describe their opinion seems to suggest there is no room for debate. There is debate going on internally about Lovett, of that I am sure.

Really! Some evidence? The only comment I've seen that is anything like official was that he hasn't been discussed.

If anyone doubts what a deleterious affect one bad apple can have on a footy club, read 'The Coach'. Or some of the comments of Saints players during the short time Lovett was there.

It didn’t take Lovett long to create headaches for the Saints too. Even before the alleged rape incident, there was allegedly underlying problems with certain teammates, which was believed to be the ultimate reason behind his termination.

Source. The Roar.


It's a pointless conversation really cos our club won't entertain him at any price IMO. We're better than that. Much better than that.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

You do realize that any credibility St Kilda players had is all but gone after the recent scandals and bizarre bi-sexual fetishes that finally came out of the closet

 

[AM]

With all the respect due to you Bobby, you are writing some mighty silly stuff in this thread. The above gross generalisation included.

Neither you or Tom have produced anything remotely compelling as to why we'd give a second thought to a player with such a documented disruptive record and documented record of chronic repetitive anti social behaviour.

Again, with all the respect due to you, you really don't get how important character and culture is to our club and how it's been a key to our success.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Void you really believe St Kilda are good well-established football club do you?
You say he was never liked from the start and De-listed immediately...perhaps he didn't want to take part in their nude photo shoots so they denounced him?

St Kilda made the Grand Final 2 years running, but just couldn't quite get over that last hurdle - they mistakenly put it down to personnel instead of game plan. They have had their fair share of issues over the last 30 years but were looking to implement new systems, unfortunately they chose to trade in rather than develop from the ground up. You might say that looking to jump the queue by extensive trading has not benefited them at all.

The problem with the nude photo shoot was that Gilbert got caught in the honey pot of Kim Duthie, and the photos found the light of day. It's not too far-fetched to say that all AFL clubs have a degree of locker room culture of nudism and latent homosexual behaviour. It starts with the kids in high school - sharing shower cubicles, comparing dicks and overtly camp displays of affection. Ultimately not damaging to club culture if kept within the group, and away from facebook.

The real issue with Lovett was that he is a notorious arseh*le of a person. He was not well-liked by many in the comp while at Essendon, and as someone that has had Lovett introduce himself to in the past I walked away with a sense that he is indeed a very slimy person - when someone feels the need to assure you that they are a "good bloke" several times in one sentence, that should serve as a red flag immediately. Very insincere and manipulative was how I perceived him and judging by his track record I don't think I'm in the minority.

Explain to me why you feel St Kilda's opinion on an individual would be worth posting as you did so?

Because St Kilda would move heaven and earth to win a flag, including introducing a player they believe to be "the final piece" to their side. Geelong does not even need to resort to this level, and playing Lovett means that someone from within would miss out. I'd take Varcoe every day of the week over Lovett.

I think half of you in here must have shunned after hearing Gary Ablett senior's name inducted into the hall of fame

I honestly do not give a single shit about the AFL Hall of Fame, or who is in it, or what it means.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

St Kilda made the Grand Final 2 years running, but just couldn't quite get over that last hurdle - they mistakenly put it down to personnel instead of game plan. They have had their fair share of issues over the last 30 years but were looking to implement new systems, unfortunately they chose to trade in rather than develop from the ground up. You might say that looking to jump the queue by extensive trading has not benefited them at all.

The problem with the nude photo shoot was that Gilbert got caught in the honey pot of Kim Duthie, and the photos found the light of day. It's not too far-fetched to say that all AFL clubs have a degree of locker room culture of nudism and latent homosexual behaviour. It starts with the kids in high school - sharing shower cubicles, comparing dicks and overtly camp displays of affection. Ultimately not damaging to club culture if kept within the group, and away from facebook.

The real issue with Lovett was that he is a notorious arseh*le of a person. He was not well-liked by many in the comp while at Essendon, and as someone that has had Lovett introduce himself to in the past I walked away with a sense that he is indeed a very slimy person - when someone feels the need to assure you that they are a "good bloke" several times in one sentence, that should serve as a red flag immediately. Very insincere and manipulative was how I perceived him and judging by his track record I don't think I'm in the minority.


Because St Kilda would move heaven and earth to win a flag, including introducing a player they believe to be "the final piece" to their side. Geelong does not even need to resort to this level, and playing Lovett means that someone from within would miss out. I'd take Varcoe every day of the week over Lovett.


I honestly do not give a single shit about the AFL Hall of Fame, or who is in it, or what it means.

wow!

that's alot of reading in there, can't be bothered reading at this time of the night but I guess you value St Kilda's opinion on culture and character right?
No use arguing then if that's your opinion as you already know my feelings on where that club is at.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

With all the respect due to you Bobby, you are writing some mighty silly stuff in this thread. The above gross generalisation included.

Neither you or Tom have produced anything remotely compelling as to why we'd give a second thought to a player with such a documented disruptive record and documented record of chronic repetitive anti social behaviour.

Again, with all the respect due to you, you really don't get how important character and culture is to our club and how it's been a key to our success.

I do respect it mate believe you me, but......isn't AFL about winning games every week until the final season decider?
I dislike the bloke immensely but look at what Krakouer did for Collingwood throughout the year (ok sure he failed when it mattered) but Lovett would be every bit as good as he around goals and especially breaking the tackle and exploding away to setup Hawkins or Stevie J in the forward line.
Similar player and age with checkered past etc that proved those who value culture so highly wrong.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Void and those other guys who just wanna pick, this isn't a question for you but Ammo I'll give you a hypothetical question....of course I don't rate a Fevola or Lovett to this bloke but it's on this same issue with the culture stuff, if you could pick a young Wayne Carey at 21 years of age knowing what he has done and will do in the years ahead (off-field issues), would you draft him to Geelong?

Because you obviously would not if you believe so strongly that culture means more than success & potential premierships/glory.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

wow!

that's alot of reading in there, can't be bothered reading at this time of the night but I guess you value St Kilda's opinion on culture and character right?
No use arguing then if that's your opinion as you already know my feelings on where that club is at.

Read what I wrote and don't resort to a strawman attack on me. St Kilda made a lot of mistakes on and off-field in the last 5 years, some of which probably cost them a flag. Giving Lovett "another chance" is only one of them, but the level of disunity it caused is really not worth the hassle.

Just FYI, attacking a poster's credibility without a backing argument is emotionally immature. You're an adult Bobby, act like one.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

you're an adult Bob, act like one

funny how a few in here feel the need to stamp their authority.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-st-kilda-saints--andrew-lovett
Vs
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-geelong-cats--travis-varcoe

You're grossly overrating Lovett. Varcoe brings more to the table like-for-like, is 5 years younger and isn't an irredeemable douche.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

night' Vinum, Void

 

[tomthabuddah]

My final point is just because the club is not on record as supporting does not mean the discussions are not being undertaken. Its good business, keep it away from the media. All i am saying is im sure the cats are dicussing this matter, just like we are. I would be disappointed if Cook and Co just read the paper like the rest of us and are instead perform a proper due diligence.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

My final point is just because the club is not on record as supporting does not mean the discussions are not being undertaken. Its good business, keep it away from the media. All i am saying is im sure the cats are dicussing this matter, just like we are. I would be disappointed if Cook and Co just read the paper like the rest of us and are instead perform a proper due diligence.

It's likely that the club already went through the process at the end of 2009 when Geelong was prepared to trade with Essendon for him. Since then he's played 0 games of AFL, while simultaneously managing to further trash his reputation from off-field incidents and ageing another 2 years. His position was a lot stronger then than it is now, just can't see exactly what role he would play that the guys we already have couldn't do better. Getting him not only becomes redundant but counterproductive to the guys from the 08/09 drafts, as well as Competing for flanker spots with guys like Hogan, Byrnes, Stokes, Smedts, Bews. Better to get another couple of kids who we can put 2 solid years of development into, which in turn can help with staggering the retirements of Bartel/Kelly/Johnson/J.Hunt as they happen over the next 3-4 seasons. Lovett being 30 next year does not help this overlap as he is likely to be cooked around the same time - we've already done enough short term acquisition in the form of Podsiadly and Stephenson.