2012 Trade Period - Your clubs performance

[YorshireSwan]

But I was thinking, Sydney's weakest spot is a tall target up forward and you still lack one plus it looks like you have lost lpaenty of depth in the backline with Spangher and Heath gone. I mean Reid is okay but he is not that monster, intimidating forward that all big clubs have like Cloke, Tippett (I know you chased him) and Franklin. I still feel that if you got a monster forward you would be formidable in 2013 and because you failed to get Tippett (though not entirely your fault) I gave you a D.

Fair enough explanation, we have a few promising young defenders coming through and it will be interesting to see how Reid develops with another pre-season under his belt. You are certainly allowed your opinion and I respect it even if I don't agree as trading is subjective.

 

[Hodge is God]

Fair enough explanation, we have a few promising young defenders coming through and it will be interesting to see how Reid develops with another pre-season under his belt. You are certainly allowed your opinion and I respect it even if I don't agree as trading is subjective.

Reid to is very promising and if I remember correctly he was given a 5 year deal in 2011? Very, very good player and he really could be very big for Sydney but we just have to wait and see. He's still young and as we know KPP always take longer to develop.
And thanks mate

 

[Malibu#27]

IN: Lake, Anderson, 29, Spangher
OUT: Gilham, 21, 41

Solid in's and didn't have to give up much. Our free agency would of been better if we had of gotten a second rounder for Young and then a third rounder for Murphy, but it's out of our control.

Are Lake and Burgoyne on speaking terms yet?

 

[Obeanie1]

People just focus on the bodies traded, just because we didn't trade in anyone doesn't make the trade period a failure, we maintained our premiership squad and top line young up and coming players, traded out a considerable amount of fringe list cloggers, retained our first round pick and improve our position in ND with increased 2nd round picks.

All in all whilst not a sensation but certainly not a D failure in the scheme of things and our list and salary cap management team for the future.

This was a very un Swan like trade period, more so because the big fish they were chasing was removed from the market by the AFL due to the investigation.

Sydney have delisted / on traded 10 players off its list, equal to or more than the bottom 4 sides which is an interesting stat. Given their first pick is 23 they moved out:

Out: Jarred Moore, Mark Seaby, Meredith, Gordon,(delisted); Eugene Kruger, Jack Lynch, Dylan McNeil (delisted rookies); Campbell Heath (Port Adelaide), Matt Spangher (Hawthorn), Trent Dennis-Lane (St Kilda); draft selections 72, 85.
Draft selections: 23, 45, 47, 66, 67, 103, 121, 139

So thats 7 senior spots need to be filled using the highlighted picks above, not too many clubs plan to actively use four picks above 65. It is understanding in that they need to free up cap space to grab Tippett and also pay its new Premiership stars more than their previous contracts, Josh Kennedy being one.

SO as a trade period it was a non event in trading in players, as a list management / salary cap management exercise they did what needed to be done. What will be interesting is how many of the 7 draftees this year will have much of an AFL career. No wonder they want Bolton to play on, pick 139 isnot where they want to be still active on draft day.

 

[YorshireSwan]

This was a very un Swan like trade period, more so because the big fish they were chasing was removed from the market by the AFL due to the investigation.

Sydney have delisted / on traded 10 players off its list, equal to or more than the bottom 4 sides which is an interesting stat. Given their first pick is 23 they moved out:

Out: Jarred Moore, Mark Seaby, Meredith, Gordon,(delisted); Eugene Kruger, Jack Lynch, Dylan McNeil (delisted rookies); Campbell Heath (Port Adelaide), Matt Spangher (Hawthorn), Trent Dennis-Lane (St Kilda); draft selections 72, 85.
Draft selections: 23, 45, 47, 66, 67, 103, 121, 139

So thats 7 senior spots need to be filled using the highlighted picks above, not too many clubs plan to actively use four picks above 65. It is understanding in that they need to free up cap space to grab Tippett and also pay its new Premiership stars more than their previous contracts, Josh Kennedy being one.

SO as a trade period it was a non event in trading in players, as a list management / salary cap management exercise they did what needed to be done. What will be interesting is how many of the 7 draftees this year will have much of an AFL career. No wonder they want Bolton to play on, pick 139 isnot where they want to be still active on draft day.

Just because there is 7 senior spots on the list doesn't mean that all these will be used on untried ND players but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see us use picks 23-67 as we have traditionally been able to unearth a few gems in the 45-67 bracket but also target some delisted AFL players to add short term depth to the list.

Our depth is still quite strong with 3 Round 1 draft picks in Rohan, Mitchell and Lamb as well as McGlynn and other highly rated draftees Lockyer, Cunningham and Brown able to come into the premiership winning team which remains unchanged.

 

[nic nat toe]

Lucky you clarified yourself over Spangher! Kidding yourself if you think your final statement is the truth.

West Coast have been the ones that set the pace as far as Footballers being elite pros. Until WC came into the picture your VFL lot, who were probably the worst, was still meeting at the pub BEFORE the game. It wasn't until the Eagles started performing, and lifting professionalism in persuit of winning, that the rest of the league dragged itself out of the 'best mates club'. We had a down time a few years ago with the drug stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that we dominate off the field. We are the second biggest club in the land and with the exodus of people running into Perth, we could easily become the biggest club in the land.

 

[YorshireSwan]

West Coast have been the ones that set the pace as far as Footballers being elite pros. Until WC came into the picture your VFL lot, who were probably the worst, was still meeting at the pub BEFORE the game. It wasn't until the Eagles started performing, and lifting professionalism in persuit of winning, that the rest of the league dragged itself out of the 'best mates club'. We had a down time a few years ago with the drug stuff, but that doesn't change the fact that we dominate off the field. We are the second biggest club in the land and with the exodus of people running into Perth, we could easily become the biggest club in the land.

I don't see how you dominate off the field? Your club is in a market that it should dominate!! With the money and resources that is available to you I do not see you doing anything over and above anything that clubs with far less resources, sponsorship and fan base do. I actually think clubs such as Geelong and Sydney are far more professional "off the field" then you guys for the reasons I mentioned above for being able to deliver consist results both on and off the field with significantly less resources and financial clout that the WCE have.

Notwithstanding this you were also the club that turned a blind to a culture of drug use and elitism by players and administrators that thought they were bigger than the club itself, this single handedly ended what should have been one of the most successful periods for your club and directly led to the best player in the league (at the time) to leave, this is not professional my friend this is totally unprofessional.

Whilst I am the first to admit that you are heading in the right direction you still have an extremely long way to go before you will be able to mentioned as professional in the same lights as other clubs.

 

[nic nat toe]

I don't see how you dominate off the field? Your club is in a market that it should dominate!! With the money and resources that is available to you I do not see you doing anything over and above anything that clubs with far less resources, sponsorship and fan base do. I actually think clubs such as Geelong and Sydney are far more professional "off the field" then you guys for the reasons I mentioned above for being able to deliver consist results both on and off the field with significantly less resources and financial clout that the WCE have.

Notwithstanding this you were also the club that turned a blind to a culture of drug use and elitism by players and administrators that thought they were bigger than the club itself, this single handedly ended what should have been one of the most successful periods for your club and directly led to the best player in the league (at the time) to leave, this is not professional my friend this is totally unprofessional.

Whilst I am the first to admit that you are heading in the right direction you still have an extremely long way to go before you will be able to mentioned as professional in the same lights as other clubs.

It's always about the drugs isn't it. I did conceed that point, but I also said that if it wasn't for our work in the 90's the AFL would still be a bunch of best mates on the board type situation. Secondly, we have already turned around a pretty dire situation very quickly and I expect we will win a few premierships in the next 10 years. By that stage we will dominate the market like you suggest we should.

 

[YorshireSwan]

It's always about the drugs isn't it. I did conceed that point, but I also said that if it wasn't for our work in the 90's the AFL would still be a bunch of best mates on the board type situation. Secondly, we have already turned around a pretty dire situation very quickly and I expect we will win a few premierships in the next 10 years. By that stage we will dominate the market like you suggest we should.

The drug culture is not something that you can just sweep under the carpet my friend (I was living here and do know what happened), as I said you have come along way since but that incident was a result of the unprofessionalism of your club in allowing it to happen which as you say you cant deny and that is not professional

There is no doubt that you guys took the league to a more professional fulltime basis but that doesnt make you the most professional club as you claim, you should be (as you are) dominating the market you are in but my point is that their is clubs with significantly less resources in significantly harder markets that are achieving more then WCE both on and off the field.

Of course like every claim it is all subject, I certainly respect your point of view but I just dont agree with it but best thing is we can agree to disagree and move on

Cheers man and good luck in 2013 ... I certainly enjoy hitting Patterson's to watch your boys play.

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't see how you dominate off the field? Your club is in a market that it should dominate!! With the money and resources that is available to you I do not see you doing anything over and above anything that clubs with far less resources, sponsorship and fan base do. I actually think clubs such as Geelong and Sydney are far more professional "off the field" then you guys for the reasons I mentioned above for being able to deliver consist results both on and off the field with significantly less resources and financial clout that the WCE have.

Notwithstanding this you were also the club that turned a blind to a culture of drug use and elitism by players and administrators that thought they were bigger than the club itself, this single handedly ended what should have been one of the most successful periods for your club and directly led to the best player in the league (at the time) to leave, this is not professional my friend this is totally unprofessional.

Whilst I am the first to admit that you are heading in the right direction you still have an extremely long way to go before you will be able to mentioned as professional in the same lights as other clubs.

This piss poor statement has been rebuked so many times it just gets lame people like you dragging it out when ever you get pushed into a corner on another issue.

The Eagles did not "turn a blind eye", they attempted to deal with the situation internally for years prior to the club finally suspending and then sacking its captain. Did the AFL suspend Cousins? No the Eagles did. After the club sacked him the AFL basically arranged for the lynch mob to do what they do. I ask you how many other clubs have suspended and sacked a high profile player due to drug issues. Others take out injuctions and even then do nothing significant or as harsh as suspending and sacking the player.

The length of the review and the actions taken by the Eagles over drugs is so far ahead of any other club has ever done. Bringing in a senior SAS officer and other independant experts to oversea massive off field changes. Players were moved on and contracts not extended.......all by the club, not the AFL. They totally took the onus of on field success to clean up its act and over that period still made record profits without any handouts or extra gifted cap space.

If Sydney needs a hand because its in a AFL expansion state no problem, just call it what it is and don't bullsh!t the public with a COLA that is indefensible as no other juristiction in Austalia gets it. In supporting this the AFL is saying every where else in Australia has the same COL and only Sydney is different. Which everyone knows is incorrect.

Sydney teams have "special needs and get special help", if they need propping up do it. Just do it so other clubs are not disadvantaged.

 

[LeverPuller]

Melbourne: Come back to me mid-next year, and then again in 2 years. If the players work - and I'm not expecting the likes of Byrnes and Rodan to work long-term, but short-term it'll be good - then I think it'll be re-assessed.

Right now, I think we overpaid for Dawes, and got screwed with Gysberts. Beyond that, I think we did pretty well, but it does depend on how the players perform.

If, long-term (3-6 years) the losing, noncompetitive culture is cracked due to these guys brought in, then it'll be regarded as one of the best trading situations any club has ever made. Right now though, it is far too early to call.

 

[vide0n]

B+.

If we ended up with Tippett would have been A+.

 

[LeverPuller]

B+.

If we ended up with Tippett would have been A+.

could still happen

 

[YorshireSwan]

This piss poor statement has been rebuked so many times it just gets lame people like you dragging it out when ever you get pushed into a corner on another issue.

The Eagles did not "turn a blind eye", they attempted to deal with the situation internally for years prior to the club finally suspending and then sacking its captain. Did the AFL suspend Cousins? No the Eagles did. After the club sacked him the AFL basically arranged for the lynch mob to do what they do. I ask you how many other clubs have suspended and sacked a high profile player due to drug issues. Others take out injuctions and even then do nothing significant or as harsh as suspending and sacking the player.

How am I pushed into a corner on another matter? I was simply rebutting the claim that the WCE are the most professional club in the competition with the cold hearted facts.

This piss poor statement only goes to show how much some, not all WCE supporters are in denial over the whole incident. It is a sad inditement that your club took no decisive action at all, not tried to "deal with it" for 3 years to curb what was a known and growing culture in its all out quest for on field performance and premiership glory. It was only when the human headline got to the point of no return in his own words "so out of control" that they actually realised that they had a problem, prior to this there were no suspensions and no sackings it was purely the fact that he attracted national media attention that you took any action all.

Actually the plenty clubs suspend and/or sack players for a lot less then the chaos that was caused by a group not just the single high profile player at you club so do not try to paint the picture that the club was messiah like in dealing with the problem and everyone else is wrong, the simple explanation is that it happened because the WCE allowed it to happen. It is impossible to think that clubs can control all its players and that none will not get into trouble, but professional clubs take decisive action when things do come up. If you took the time to read you will have seen that I admitted that you have taken many measures to rectify things of the past and had come a long way in your quest but in my opinion you are not the most professional club in the league as was the statement by your colleague.

In terms of Sydney and the COLA, right or wrong its within the rules as they stand and agreed by all AFL clubs including your own and has no bearing on the professionalism of the club which is what the discussion was about, therefore I really think your defensiveness and need to deflect off the topic of conversation only proves my point.

 

[Obeanie1]

How am I pushed into a corner on another matter? I was simply rebutting the claim that the WCE are the most professional club in the competition with the cold hearted facts.

This piss poor statement only goes to show how much some, not all WCE supporters are in denial over the whole incident. It is a sad inditement that your club took no decisive action at all, not tried to "deal with it" for 3 years to curb what was a known and growing culture in its all out quest for on field performance and premiership glory. It was only when the human headline got to the point of no return in his own words "so out of control" that they actually realised that they had a problem, prior to this there were no suspensions and no sackings it was purely the fact that he attracted national media attention that you took any action all.

Actually the plenty clubs suspend and/or sack players for a lot less then the chaos that was caused by a group not just the single high profile player at you club so do not try to paint the picture that the club was messiah like in dealing with the problem and everyone else is wrong, the simple explanation is that it happened because the WCE allowed it to happen. It is impossible to think that clubs can control all its players and that none will not get into trouble, but professional clubs take decisive action when things do come up. If you took the time to read you will have seen that I admitted that you have taken many measures to rectify things of the past and had come a long way in your quest but in my opinion you are not the most professional club in the league as was the statement by your colleague.

In terms of Sydney and the COLA, right or wrong its within the rules as they stand and agreed by all AFL clubs including your own and has no bearing on the professionalism of the club which is what the discussion was about, therefore I really think your defensiveness and need to deflect off the topic of conversation only proves my point.

Where did I deny anything?

I was and still am not happy about what occurred but no one is denying anything.

Is removing Cousins as Captain 12 months before suspending and sacking him not decisive? What about moving on Chick, unertaking a massive off field review, engaging an independant steering committee , the list of what the Eagles did off field to address the issue is well documented and acknowledged by the AFL but you obviously don't recall any of this because it doesn't suit your argument.

You are a dead set nuff nuff. YOU brought up the Eagles drug issue therefore it is quite clear YOU are desperately trying deflect the criticism of the Swans COLA and take the discussion off topic.

Epic fail on your behalf.

 

[Books]

Let's see...

Upgraded Dawes to Lynch
Upgraded Tom Young to Russell
Young to replace Wellingham

Oh and ended up with 2 extra first round picks (18 & 21) and upgraded our 2nd round pick ....

We shat it in, A+

I can't "Like" your comment because it is Collingwood, but this is all so true.

A++ for the Pies, IMHO.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

IMO, Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn targeted areas of needs and brought players in an attempt to answer those needs. Geelong took a risk on an injury-plagued ruckman but managed to pay unders to North Melbourne for him. However, when fit, McIntosh is a great ruckman. Rivers will be an excellent player down back, providing support to Taylor and Lonergan. Caddy gets the chance to develop into a stand-out midfielder along side some of the best midfielders in the competition. Geelong also shed some list-cloggers and kept most its picks intact, save for the compensation pick.

Collingwood upgraded Dawes to Lynch, imo, and received a slightly different player in Clinton Young to the midfielder they lost, in Wellingham. The Tom Young deal is a bit of non-entity (presumably Young asked for the trade because the Dogs promised him games?). Where Collingwood excelled is the stockpiling of first round draft picks. Collingwood will probably get a couple of years out of Lynch and at least four years out of Young. In the meantime, the trio of first rounders can develop nicely and push out the likes of Ben Johnson and Didak from Collingwood's 22. Collingwood smashed "trade week" IMO.

Hawthorn paid unders for Lake given the threat of free agency, but there's always a risk when a player rising 30 changes clubs. Nonetheless, his acquisition should prove beneficial as it frees Schoenmakers from taking on the no. 1 forward (a role for which he wasn't quite ready for on a consistent basis) and allows Gibson to be the third defender who can confidently peel off his man and help out if needed.

 

[vide0n]

could still happen

It'd be really nice but I'm not counting on it. Apparently we aren't interested in paying him close to what he wants as it could jeopardise our ability to retain all the young players already on our list that we wish to retain, oh well.

 

[YorshireSwan]

Where did I deny anything?

I was and still am not happy about what occurred but no one is denying anything.

Is removing Cousins as Captain 12 months before suspending and sacking him not decisive? What about moving on Chick, unertaking a massive off field review, engaging an independant steering committee , the list of what the Eagles did off field to address the issue is well documented and acknowledged by the AFL but you obviously don't recall any of this because it doesn't suit your argument.

You are a dead set nuff nuff. YOU brought up the Eagles drug issue therefore it is quite clear YOU are desperately trying deflect the criticism of the Swans COLA and take the discussion off topic.

Epic fail on your behalf.

Get over yourself and realise the context that it was brought up in, as rebuttal against the assumption that WCE are the most professional club in the league.

Removing BC from the captaincy was a decisive move but he knowingly continued on a downward spiral and no further action was taken, as I mentioned earlier if you ever bothered to read all post everything that you mention happened after the club had become the debarcle that it did, and this was through it sole desire for on field performance and ultimate glory which it achieved but in my personal opinion achieved in an unprofessional manner (the topic of the conversation) and as history shows led to the downfall of players and loss of what should have been a period of sustained success on field as a result of poor management and professionalism off field.

I am not disputing what has been done since but in the context of professionalism you are solely focussing on what the club did after the fact to bring it back from the brink but the fact is that it is concievable that had you taken the decisive action that was needed to be taken (suspend or sack) on that select group of players well before 2007 then more than likely WCE would not have had the success that you did have prior to this point, I for one personally differ in this thinking as its my opinon that if you did it take the action it would have bonded the core goup, driven a new culture and achieved the sustained period of success and actually delivered more than you actually did achieved with the sole focus of onfield success and scant disregard for the overall wellbeing of the club.

Just to clarify one point, the extreme means you so rightly point out that were taken to resolve the situation were at the behest of the AFL who told the WCE to clean up their act or the AFL would envoke the sanctions that they were holding over their heads.

Finally there is no need to get personal about this, we are all aloud our own opinions and you dont have to agree with me just like I dont need to agree with you. As I said I brought up the drug culture which directly related to the topic of conversation regarding professionalism that I was having, you on the other hand were the one deflecting from the context of the topic by bring up the Swans and COLA which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic so to use your words EPIC FAIL ON YOUR BEHALF.

There is no point having any further debate, you will not change my opinion on the topic of professionalism and WCE and I obviously will not change yours on anything to do with your club.

 

[jasonwilde]

Carlton get an F.

And it's effing hillarious to see their supporters thinking they've done well here too. Good times!

Us, probably an A. I'm not too happy about losing Dawes. At least a good big body back-up. COuld ahve played a couple of games in the Magoos to help get his mojo back. Wish him all the best.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Carlton get an F.

And it's effing hillarious to see their supporters thinking they've done well here too. Good times!

Us, probably an A. I'm not too happy about losing Dawes. At least a good big body back-up. COuld ahve played a couple of games in the Magoos to help get his mojo back. Wish him all the best.

Its pretty hilarious when Collingwood scum crawl out of the gutter to post om big footy too

We'll see how bad our trading period is after we wiped the floor with you again

There was no one who we missed out on at the right price except for Anderson and that is a fact

 

[PykeDream]

B+.

If we ended up with Tippett would have been A+.

Getting Broughton for what you did was a dead set steal.

 

[jasonwilde]

Its pretty hilarious when Collingwood scum crawl out of the gutter to post om big footy too

We'll see how bad our trading period is after we wiped the floor with you again

There was no one who we missed out on at the right price except for Anderson and that is a fact

Would have thought that would be an opinion actually.
At any rate, there's something going on with your club at the moment. Loving it. Loving that some of you folk at sitting back and deluding yourself about it too. Keep up the good work. 10th is a good year for you, as long as you beat us. Kudos brother.

 

[TassieSaint]

I was not a fan of our trade period personally but it was high risk/high reward. Losing Goddard for pick 13 was bullshit but not much we can do about that. Picked up some very promising if speculative young players.

Very much a time will tell scenario, I'd give us a C at the moment but I think it genuinely could end up anywhere from an A to an F.

 

[Tiger2709]

My team did great because all those young kids we are going to draft will be superstars, and all the other club rejects we picked up will magically transform into match-winners, because of new environment, supportive coach, etc.

And all you other clubs picked up duds, and gave up too high draft picks for them.........................

So AAA for the Tigers, looks like another flag for us then