NFL 2013 NFL - Off-Season & Pre-Draft Discussion

[catters078]

Watching the SEC championship game showed me that warmack is a top 10 pick, regardless of the fact hes an interior lineman.

Alabama ran all over georgia particularly in the 2nd half and they were allowed to because warmack mainly was absoutley monstering georgias D line ( one of the best in collge football last year).

If i was tennessee and he was available he would be my pick at 10, their O line is reasonable but adding him immediately upgrades it, which will bring Chris Johnson back to his mega number days

 

[Blacky]

Guards arent a "value pick" merely because too many people think like you do.

Steve Hutchinson, pick 17 2001 draft, is an example of why under valuing guards gets you into trouble, because once he left in FA to the Vikings, Seattle's previously dominant running game fell apart.

Seattle in 2012 ran a defense based around bump and run from big, hulking cornerbacks. Sherman and Browner attempted to mug the defender within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, to block them and throw off their route tree and any timing patterns (as a side point, big hulking cornerbacks also arent considered "a value pick" either, which is why we got our starting corners for a 5th and nothing).

The problem is, if the mugging fails, you have a wideout streaking down the field uncovered. If you dont have a safety with awesome vision to see this unfold, and the range to get there and break up the incoming pass, then rather than the Legion of Boom you have the Legion of Burned.

As an aside, Kam Chancellor essentially played as a fourth linebacker ... but linebacker is still considered a "value position" and safety isnt, so we got Kam at least a round lower than we should have.

But value is about the players within the system, not about an arbitrary "value of the position".

Oh, here's one. Part of what makes the zone read so deadly an offense is it takes the second highest "value" player, the defensive end on the quarterback's blind side, and turns him into a traffic light.

I don't really see what me stating cold hard facts has to do with Seattle's 2012 defense TBH.

The NFL is a pass first league, guards aren't coveted, for better or worse. It's plain and simple.

Warmack is the best player on the board, and will probably blow up the combine. There is still a 0% chance of him going #1, because Andy Reid will immediately start building KC around a QB, even though they statistically have on of the better runners in the game in JC.

 

[IanW]

I don't really see what me stating cold hard facts has to do with Seattle's 2012 defense TBH.

The NFL is a pass first league, guards aren't coveted, for better or worse. It's plain and simple.

NFL is a pass-first league ? Someone tell San Francisco.

Again, Im talking about actual value. You're talking about what people will do.

If you fail conventionally in the NFL, you get rewarded.

If you buck conventional wisdom and it fails, you're out of the league.

The logic that has a team refuse to draft a cant-miss 10 year starter high is the same logic that saw Seattle refuse to "overpay" to keep Steve Hutchinson.

As well, the popularity of the Tampa-2 and its offshoots, which value pass-rushing defensive tackles to pressure the quarterback while dropping 7 into coverage, is putting more of a premium on guard play.

But at the end of the day, me saying 'Guards are valuable. Pay for great guards' and you saying 'NFL front offices dont value guards" are both correct.

In short, someone is going to hire Wamack and do very well.

 

[Brasher]

Personnally, unless you are absolutely set at a certain position I'm a fan of the BPA approach.

However, that works well when drafting from a pool with a clear slope in talent drop off. This year there is a solid, if unspectacular group of draft eligibles that bat pretty deep. Will the 20th drafted player be that much better than the 64th?

I think the mantra for this year will be don't reach for a position of need, doesn't matter how desperate the need.

 

[Brasher]

Value is as value does.

Safeties and guards were not considered high value because they are considered easier positions to play then others. Running back is going down the same route. Not that long ago taking a tight end in the first two rounds was considered a wasted pick. Teams switch to a 3-4 defense with/or a cover two because stellar pass rushing DEs and cover corners are hard to find.

Now we all like option QBs. Running the ball outside (either as a QB keeper or option pass) makes guards less important, pass rushing LBs who overcommit to the rush a liability, your WRs better be able to run block and so it goes.

Good teams either draft players that fit a scheme or develop a scheme to fit their players. The ones that get into trouble don't do either or try and do both. They end up recruiting a "high value" player that neither fits their scheme or is stuck down on the depth chart.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Never underestimate a good pulling guard, even in spread offense.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

NFL is a pass-first league ? Someone tell San Francisco.

Again, Im talking about actual value. You're talking about what people will do.

If you fail conventionally in the NFL, you get rewarded.

If you buck conventional wisdom and it fails, you're out of the league.

The logic that has a team refuse to draft a cant-miss 10 year starter high is the same logic that saw Seattle refuse to "overpay" to keep Steve Hutchinson.

As well, the popularity of the Tampa-2 and its offshoots, which value pass-rushing defensive tackles to pressure the quarterback while dropping 7 into coverage, is putting more of a premium on guard play.

But at the end of the day, me saying 'Guards are valuable. Pay for great guards' and you saying 'NFL front offices dont value guards" are both correct.

In short, someone is going to hire Wamack and do very well.

I'm hoping Idzik defies conventional wisdom and takes Warmack with pick 9. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind Idzik taking advantage of conventional wisdom and trading down out of pick 9 for a later first round pick and a pick in a later round, then taking Warmack with that later first round pick while having the extra pick to help with the rebuild.

An offensive line with Mangold, Ferguson and Warmack would be a good starting point for rebuilding the offence.

 

[IanW]

I'm hoping Idzik defies conventional wisdom and takes Warmack with pick 9. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind Idzik taking advantage of conventional wisdom and trading down out of pick 9 for a later first round pick and a pick in a later round, then taking Warmack with that later first round pick while having the extra pick to help with the rebuild.

An offensive line with Mangold, Ferguson and Warmack would be a good starting point for rebuilding the offence.

I think this is going to be a very hard guard to trade down in - theres a bunch of players, all of whom seem to make the league collectively go "meh".

Then again, someone could go 'y'know, Matt Barkley is the top QB on out board, and he's still out there' *shrug*

 

[Exe Gesis]

NFL.com has a column called “You remind of…”

Geno Smith = Sam Bradford
Giovani Bernard = LeSean McCoy
Robert Woods = Reggie Wayne
Mike Glennon = Joe Flacco
Le’veon Bell = Steven Jackson
Kenny Vaccaro = Charles Woodseon
Tavon Austin = Percy Harvin
Bjoern Werner = Jared Allen
Manti Te’o = Rolando McClain
Eric Fisher = Joe Staley
Sheldon Richardson = Henry Melton

 

[catters078]

Have a feeling Vaccaro will have a Mark Barron type jump into the top 10

 

[Exe Gesis]

Draft Notes:

•A former NFL exec mentioned that the Chiefs “have to take [Luke] Joeckel. He’s the best player, period. He’s safe.” (Matt Miller)
•An NFL scout mentioned that he has a “late-round grade” on North Carolina State QB Mike Glennon. (Matt Miller)
•Miami of Ohio QB Zac Dysert reportedly hasn’t looked like a quarterback “with the talent to start” in the NFL this week. (National Football Post)
•The Rams have reportedly showed interest in Georgia CB Sanders Commings this week. (St. Louis Post-Dispatch)
•“215-pound safety with corner feet,” said Mike Mayock of Georgia Southern S J.J. Wilcox, via NFL.com. “I think he’s an immediate starter in the NFL,
•San Jose State OL David Quessenberry’s strong showing this week could have elevated him into the third to fourth-round of this year’s draft. (Charlie Campbell)
•FIU S Saf Cyprien is “one of draft’s best safeties.“ (Erik Galko)

 

[Exe Gesis]

Highest paid running back in the league: Adrian Peterson. Defending League MVP, 5 time All Pro, AP Almost broke the NFL Rushing Record coming back from a bad ACL injury.

Number two highest paid: Chris Johnson, who has the MOST combined yards for a player in a single season and ran for over 1200 yards last year.

Number three in cap hit: Darren McFadden. McFadden has had an injury plagued career basically doing nothing for five years. In fact, Chris Johnson has run for as many yards his lst two years that McFadden has done in his career.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Can add Montee Ball = Curtis Martin, according to a lot of Jets fans.

 

[Blacky]

Star Lotulelei = Haloti Ngata
Jarvis Jones = Von Miller lite

Walterfootball put up a list of players compared to last year, which was pretty interesting.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013positionreview.php

Rates Joekel better than Kalil, if that's the consensus then he has to go #1 surely.

 

[Blacky]

One of the funniest things about the off season so far is that Geno Smith is being referred to as a dual threat by many, simply because he is black. I'm fairly sure he didn't rush many yards at all this season.

Be interesting to see how he fairs this weekend.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Not paying attention to Walterfootball - How do you have how ever many CBs they have and no Jamar Taylor
And how cant DJ Harper make the HB list too

 

[Dirty Bird]

Wait, Taylor is now included.
Only took untill after the Senior Bowl which he carved up

 

[ausbacker]

Watching the SEC championship game showed me that warmack is a top 10 pick, regardless of the fact hes an interior lineman.

Alabama ran all over georgia particularly in the 2nd half and they were allowed to because warmack mainly was absoutley monstering georgias D line ( one of the best in collge football last year).

If i was tennessee and he was available he would be my pick at 10, their O line is reasonable but adding him immediately upgrades it, which will bring Chris Johnson back to his mega number days

Warmack should be rated as one of the best 5 players in the draft. It shouldn't matter than he plays as a Guard. In the modern NFL, teams are showing the fastest way to the Quarterback is through the A gaps. Warmack plugs an A and a B almost immediately.

 

[Blacky]

Not paying attention to Walterfootball - How do you have how ever many CBs they have and no Jamar Taylor
And how cant DJ Harper make the HB list too

I have read many of the mock drafts and have watched a lot of college football. You would be stupid to look past the first round, but it's good to gather other people's perspective. You should give it a try

 

[Dirty Bird]

I support Atlanta....
Our pick is basically a 2nd round pick....
Therefore it's useless for me to look at 1st round, need to look past it....

(With our needs, better chances of us trading out of the 1st and stockpile 2014 1st)

 

[_shifty_]

Dennard was convicted this morning and faces 5 years jail.
We knew the risk when we drafted him, and arguably one year of his play was worth a seventh. The facts seemed pretty suspicious, the non-police witnesses statements conflicted with theirs and the camera didn't show any punch.

 

[Joshen]

Revis and Sherman going at each other on Twitter

 

[GreyWind]

Revis and Sherman going at each other on Twitter

I wonder if Sherman could go a week without getting into a fight with someone?

 

[Joshen]

I wonder if Sherman could go a week without getting into a with someone?

To be fair Revis started it. But yes he does seem to engage himself in these things far too often.

 

[andana]

JaMarcus Russell is in training with Jeff Garcia. The size of an OL.