2nds 2014 Collingwood VFL Magpies
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TradeDraft
Post-Human
Intresting if Hine would take up the Option. Depends how many players are still on his list Higher then Kelly
MyManLynch
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Isn't it strange that we have apparently already 'nominated' him as a potential father/son, yet appear to still have to reconfirm that we will list him as a rookie after the main draft & prior to the rookie draft.
So what is the point of nominating now?
So what is the point of nominating now?
TradeDraft
Post-Human
I don't Know. I think the AFL Bosses have no Idea
TradeDraft
Post-Human
- Dec 12, 2010
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Exactly. There isn't.
The nomination means nothing until it happens during the actual alloted time. This nomination is just words.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
Nominating him now is a procedural necessity - it gives other clubs the chance to gazump you by using their last pick in the ND. You don't have to 'reconfirm' him, you actually have to decide to take him or not, you could still pass on him.
- Dec 12, 2010
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Whether we nominated him now or not will not impact another club's desire for him if they want him. Either they want him on their senior list (and therefore will select him in the draft) or they don't (and we get him). Their actions won't be changed by whether we nominate him or not.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
But if Collingwood only had to nominate him on the day of the rookie draft (and get him with their 4th round pick), the other clubs can scream "we were going to rookie him with our round 1 (2 or 3) rookie pick, if we knew CFC were going to do that we would have taken him with out last pick in the ND". This way it is all up front. Every other club knows the price they have to pay.
MyManLynch
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So you are saying that the 'nomination' is only a flag or intent to maybe pre-list on Nov 25 (after the draft & prior to the rookie draft). The whole thing seems nonsensical to me.
No where else in the draft system do you have to nominate, then at a later date decide if you pre-list or not.
Once we nominate, that should be it, either another club takes him in the main draft or if he is not drafted he should automatically become a Collingwood pre-listed rookie.
The player is most likely as confused by this, as I am.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
That is it exactly.
It is a special rule that only applies to father-son rookies. So there are no other examples really. Previously this rule didn't exist, so it is really a nice little extra - but the 'cost' is that the clubs have to be transparent.
This system is better for Collingwood. After the draft Hine gets to look at the list of non-drafted player. If there are a dozen he likes he can say "pass" on Kelly and get rookies he rates higher. If he looks after the draft and the cupboard is bare, he can say "we'll take Kelly". It really is getting two shots for one bullet.
Considering the player's father is one of the game's leading Player Managers- I would think he has a pretty good source for explaining the system
MyManLynch
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Yes, I can see how it benefits Collingwood, giving Hine more time & options.That is it exactly.
It is a special rule that only applies to father-son rookies. So there are no other examples really. Previously this rule didn't exist, so it is really a nice little extra - but the 'cost' is that the clubs have to be transparent.
This system is better for Collingwood. After the draft Hine gets to look at the list of non-drafted player. If there are a dozen he likes he can say "pass" on Kelly and get rookies he rates higher. If he looks after the draft and the cupboard is bare, he can say "we'll take Kelly". It really is getting two shots for one bullet.
Considering the player's father is one of the game's leading Player Managers- I would think he has a pretty good source for explaining the system
However it does not suit the player, as the nomination (intent) means nothing to him.
Kelly will be hoping to be drafted on the 21st Nov by any club, rather than a 'maybe' pre-listing by Collingwood. Would be a more comfortable position for the player to know in advance (especially as a f/s) that if he misses out on the 21st then he is definitely a pre-listed rookie with Collingwood.
He will have 4 nervous days from the 21st until the 25th Nov waiting for Collingwood's decision.
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It wouldn't be great if you had to commit to F/S rookies prior to the national draft happening then suddenly 4 players don't get drafted who you thought would and you really want them however you are stuck selecting this F/S guy. It's far more advantageous to give clubs some flexibility as no one knows what will happen during the ND
- Dec 12, 2010
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This is not how it happens. There is no committment to Hine's comment that we will rookie him. We are perfectly within our right to not. Therefore those words are completely empty.
If a rival club wants him on their primary list, they will take him. If not, they will expect that they won't get him. End of story.
The suggestion that we should 'flag' that we might take him, so that other teams can use that information in their decision process is a bit of a stretch. Although it would be nice... E.g. I would love it if Brisbane could flag who they would take at 7 so we can figure out when to pick up Bontempelli...
If a rival club wants him on their primary list, they will take him. If not, they will expect that they won't get him. End of story.
The suggestion that we should 'flag' that we might take him, so that other teams can use that information in their decision process is a bit of a stretch. Although it would be nice... E.g. I would love it if Brisbane could flag who they would take at 7 so we can figure out when to pick up Bontempelli...
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
It is not about Hine's words or 'flagging'.
The question was why do it? The answer is that rules require it. If you want the possibility of taking him as a father-son in the rookie draft you have to fill in the form and submit it to the AFL by the relevant deadline.
The follow up question then becomes, why have this AFL paperwork and process at all? And the answer to that is it keeps the system transparent and means that the other clubs can't complain about any sort of conspiracy. If they don't take him in the ND they can have no complaints if Collingwood take him before the rookie draft.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
MASSIVE LOSS. Big Loss. Guess Orval is going to sign.
Guess Boland wants to play AFL
- Dec 12, 2010
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I think we are starting to understand each other a little better.
My response would be that the deadline to nominate as a rookie isn't until AFTER the National Draft, in fact it doesn't even open until AFTER the National Draft.
I actually think that he should already be on the rookie list now. As in the club nominates him, nobody shows any interest then the club can rookie him on the spot. I don't see why it has to be done twice and give clubs a 2nd chance of taking him.
Isn't that the same as F/S nominations for the main draft. North nominate McDonald, however another club bid their 1st round pick, hence North forced to pre-select him with their 1st rounder.
Now, what if Boyd slides
)) past pick 7? North could be kicking themselves for missing out on Boyd (a player they didn't think would fall to them).North stuck with their pre-selected player.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
The deadline for clubs to nominate guys they are considering taking in the rookie draft via the father-son mechanism was October 4th at 2pm.
- Dec 12, 2010
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No club has had the chance to pick him up yet. The draft hasn't happened. We didn't nominate him and therefore we gave no one the chance to bid.
There are two lists, and therefore two drafts. Clubs haven't even had one option of getting him onto their list yet.
- Dec 12, 2010
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That was for the main list...
The rookie list nomination period opens on the 25th November. As below.
Monday 25 November – Gillette AFL Delisted Free Agency Period (3) Concludes; AFL Club List Lodgement (3); Notification of NSW and Qld Pre-Selected Rookies, Father-Son Pre-Selected Rookies, Academy Pre-Selected Rookies, International Scholarship Pre-Selected Rookies and Scholarship Pre-Selected Rookies
Before this, you can't pre-select anybody.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
That is the day you have activate the pick (or pass) and confirm whether you are taking him. The date you have to nominate him was October 4th.
