List Mgmt. 2014 Free Agency, draft and trades news and discussion **Not the trade hypotheticals thread"

[Prudster]

I am amazed in the lack of faith in our up-and-coming mids. I could be wrong, but from what I have seen, Langers, Hallahan, Woody and Jed could become a great midfield. Add Smith, Hilly and Billy as the outside speedsters, and it looks pretty good to me. We could do with a Fyfe or Cotchin as build our mids into the most reared in the competition.
Anyway, them is my thoughts. However, I'll leave ti to the club, because I have faith in them.

Lets be realistic here though. These guys have to replace Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne and Sewell. Two of those guys have had multiple seasons where they are amongst the best couple of players in the league, and Burgoyne and Sewell are no slouches. The four you listed might be good, but will at least 2 of them be top 15 players and a third a top 40 player in the league?

Also, with GC and GWS having entire teams of first round draft picks, are these players good enough to compete with the very best of the junior talent? It is unlikely that all four will even make it, let alone be elite talents, which is why we need to supplement them.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Lets be realistic here though. These guys have to replace Mitchell, Hodge, Burgoyne and Sewell. Two of those guys have had multiple seasons where they are amongst the best couple of players in the league, and Burgoyne and Sewell are no slouches. The four you listed might be good, but will at least 2 of them be top 15 players and a third a top 40 player in the league?

Also, with GC and GWS having entire teams of first round draft picks, are these players good enough to compete with the very best of the junior talent? It is unlikely that all four will even make it, let alone be elite talents, which is why we need to supplement them.

but in all honesty how many teams have ready made replacements for their gun mids?

 

[Hawker55]

but in all honesty how many teams have ready made replacements for their gun mids?

Exactly. You can't fret over replacing out and out superstars because you're never going to be able to. What you can do is look at what you have and work out how to get the most out of as many players as possible.

 

[Prudster]

but in all honesty how many teams have ready made replacements for their gun mids?

Yeah but it's not like we have some underdeveloped guns in waiting either. Unless we add more to our midfield, we are essentially expecting Langford, Hallahan, Woodward and Anderson to lead our midfield. That is four unknowns really, and even with Anderson who has shown quite a bit in his playing time, whether he can be a full time midfielder and not just pinch hit is yet to be seen.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that these four won't make it, or that they won't be stars. But to expect them to lead our midfield when our older blokes go is a massive risk, and it seems unlikely that all four will be good replacements. Our recent trading strategy has netted some fantastic players who played key roles in our success, but has left us with big gaps in our future. With the salary cap room from Franklin leaving, and the future retirements of our older blokes, we must use it to really shore up our midfield, and perhaps KPD's, instead of throwing money at someone like Cameron, who won't add that much to our team.

 

[Prudster]

Exactly. You can't fret over replacing out and out superstars because you're never going to be able to. What you can do is look at what you have and work out how to get the most out of as many players as possible.

I'm not sure i understand this logic when you apply it to getting Cameron. It is difficult to replace our midfielders, so we should throw all our money at Cameron, who doesn't fill a direct need, would detract from our other forwards, and leave us with less potential to replace midfielders? I would rather fret over replacing midfielders than filling a need that doesn't exist, and doesn't really add to the team.

 

[Spursfan]

Yeah but it's not like we have some underdeveloped guns in waiting either. Unless we add more to our midfield, we are essentially expecting Langford, Hallahan, Woodward and Anderson to lead our midfield. That is four unknowns really, and even with Anderson who has shown quite a bit in his playing time, whether he can be a full time midfielder and not just pinch hit is yet to be seen.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that these four won't make it, or that they won't be stars. But to expect them to lead our midfield when our older blokes go is a massive risk, and it seems unlikely that all four will be good replacements. Our recent trading strategy has netted some fantastic players who played key roles in our success, but has left us with big gaps in our future. With the salary cap room from Franklin leaving, and the future retirements of our older blokes, we must use it to really shore up our midfield, and perhaps KPD's, instead of throwing money at someone like Cameron, who won't add that much to our team.

Guys like Cameron come around once a decade at best. He would be sensational in our forward line (frankly I hope he stays GWS just so no other victorian club gets him if hawthorn can't)

 

[Prudster]

Guys like Cameron come around once a decade at best. He would be sensational in our forward line (frankly I hope he stays GWS just so no other victorian club gets him if hawthorn can't)

But again, we are the highest scoring team in the league, and already have three of the highest scoring forwards in the league. But the reason our forward line is the best in the league goes beyond goals. Gunston, Rough, Breust, Rioli, Puopolo and Hale can all go up the field, which allows us to vary our setup, and each player complements each other. Ultimately, each player contributes in far more ways than just their goal output, although they all generally kick a fair few goals.

Now add Cameron into that forward line. What does he add? He can kick goals, but unless we are going to be increasing our goal output by 3 per week, those goals are going to come at the expense of our other forwards, so there is no net gain. He hasn't really shown an ability to add anything other than goals.

Now, if we were getting him for free and paying him a moderate amount, sure, i'd say get him. But when you are paying superstar wages, and probably giving up some good assets, i would expect him to improve our team significantly, which i don't believe he will. There is also the issue of us having a superstar forward line, but no midfield to get it down there. All of our forwards outputs would drop significantly, and we would be in a bit of trouble.

 

[Davo23]

But again, we are the highest scoring team in the league, and already have three of the highest scoring forwards in the league. But the reason our forward line is the best in the league goes beyond goals. Gunston, Rough, Breust, Rioli, Puopolo and Hale can all go up the field, which allows us to vary our setup, and each player complements each other. Ultimately, each player contributes in far more ways than just their goal output, although they all generally kick a fair few goals.

Now add Cameron into that forward line. What does he add? He can kick goals, but unless we are going to be increasing our goal output by 3 per week, those goals are going to come at the expense of our other forwards, so there is no net gain. He hasn't really shown an ability to add anything other than goals.

Now, if we were getting him for free and paying him a moderate amount, sure, i'd say get him. But when you are paying superstar wages, and probably giving up some good assets, i would expect him to improve our team significantly, which i don't believe he will. There is also the issue of us having a superstar forward line, but no midfield to get it down there. All of our forwards outputs would drop significantly, and we would be in a bit of trouble.

Cameron is a good player, but he's not a superstar.
Not many teams took GWS too seriously last year, and he got under the radar.

He's been found out this year when defenders are actually playing on him.

 

[WWSD]

Cameron is a good player, but he's not a superstar.
Not many teams took GWS too seriously last year, and he got under the radar.

He's been found out this year when defenders are actually playing on him.

Would take Adam Treloar over Jeremy Cameron any day!

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

OK, so i'm starting to compile our shopping list.. (In no particular order)
DANGERFIELD
FYFE
MUNDY
CAMERON
FRAWLEY
COTCHIN
???

I am quietly confident that we will land a big fish...Question is...who?

That is a good list....... of players that we will extremely overpay for.

I would prefer the club to find under valued players ready to step up, like what Port has done with Polec and White this year.

 

[Spursfan]

But again, we are the highest scoring team in the league, and already have three of the highest scoring forwards in the league. But the reason our forward line is the best in the league goes beyond goals. Gunston, Rough, Breust, Rioli, Puopolo and Hale can all go up the field, which allows us to vary our setup, and each player complements each other. Ultimately, each player contributes in far more ways than just their goal output, although they all generally kick a fair few goals.

Now add Cameron into that forward line. What does he add? He can kick goals, but unless we are going to be increasing our goal output by 3 per week, those goals are going to come at the expense of our other forwards, so there is no net gain. He hasn't really shown an ability to add anything other than goals.

Now, if we were getting him for free and paying him a moderate amount, sure, i'd say get him. But when you are paying superstar wages, and probably giving up some good assets, i would expect him to improve our team significantly, which i don't believe he will. There is also the issue of us having a superstar forward line, but no midfield to get it down there. All of our forwards outputs would drop significantly, and we would be in a bit of trouble.

I understand the current forward set up is working well so far, but as I said the opportunity to potentially sign an A grade KPF doesn't come around too often. He's only 21 and would be an investment in the now and in the future (post Roughead/Hale). We would have to really bottom out in the future to realistically draft another gun forward again. Alas I'm not getting to fussed about it as there is still 18 months to go on his current contract and I'm sure GWS will improve between now and then and he would likely re-sign...

 

[Carcass]

Now add Cameron into that forward line. What does he add? He can kick goals, but unless we are going to be increasing our goal output by 3 per week, those goals are going to come at the expense of our other forwards, so there is no net gain.

Is this post serious?

I mean most people believe Shoey should be forward, if he gets forward wont that also take away goals from all the players you’ve mentioned in your posts about this?

Didn't we have a bloke named Franklin up there last year and for many before that - didn't seem to stop us scoring or hurt the other forwards to me, but it did seem to help the team.

The good thing about this is GWS is ripe for the picking, the players are unhappy and none will be going to the bulldogs, since the bulldogs are a shit club that never win anything. Damn I laughed at that!!

Where does this leave Tomlison and a few others who fly under the radar – interesting times, but I’ll wager the afl commission steps in on this one.

 

[Prudster]

I understand the current forward set up is working well so far, but as I said the opportunity to potentially sign an A grade KPF doesn't come around too often. He's only 21 and would be an investment in the now and in the future (post Roughead/Hale). We would have to really bottom out in the future to realistically draft another gun forward again. Alas I'm not getting to fussed about it as there is still 18 months to go on his current contract and I'm sure GWS will improve between now and then and he would likely re-sign...

It sounds good in theory, but it is unlikely we will be up forever. It is more difficult to replace Hodge, Mitchell, Burgoyne and Sewell than it is to get a decent KPF. The problem is that we won't be getting any top 5/10 draft picks for the foreseeable future, and to use a fair portion of our salary cap on an elite KPF, when we already have two, as well as two other elite forwards, is simply not smart imo.

If we can replace the midfielders and KPD's, imo we can keep our window open for another 3 or 4 years. If we can't replace those mids, then our star studded forward line will lose a lot of its effectiveness, and we probably won't be contending. I actually think West Coast is an example of what we will end up like if we don't replace our mids. They have some brilliant forwards, a more than solid defence and ruck, but their mids hold them back from truly contending.

Is this post serious?

I mean most people believe Shoey should be forward, if he gets forward wont that also take away goals from all the players you’ve mentioned in your posts about this?

Didn't we have a bloke named Franklin up there last year and for many before that - didn't seem to stop us scoring or hurt the other forwards to me, but it did seem to help the team.

The good thing about this is GWS is ripe for the picking, the players are unhappy and none will be going to the bulldogs, since the bulldogs are a shit club that never win anything. Damn I laughed at that!!

Where does this leave Tomlison and a few others who fly under the radar – interesting times, but I’ll wager the afl commission steps in on this one.

I am completely serious. You use Franklin as an example, yet look at our forwards post-Franklin. Breust is second in the coleman, Gunston and Rough are right up there as well. Also, Franklin added a lot more than just goals, which Cameron has not shown an ability to do. As for Schoey, if he were to play forward, i would see him playing a high half forward, almost a Riewoldt role, where he gives a bailout kick, and just generally runs his opponent off his feet. This would essentially mean he isn't in the forward 50 for the majority of the game, and when he is, it's similar to a resting ruckman.

Whether that is how it would work out is a different story. Either way, i think Schoey offers more outside of pure goals than Cameron, and also comes at a far, far cheaper price.

If we are going after GWS players, surely we should focus on mids. It just seems dumb to me that we would spend big on Cameron (and he probably would cost 800k+ for 5 years), when we have a need to fill in the next couple of years, and there is far more available at a far cheaper price. It sounds good to snare a 10 year KPF, but we already have a couple of those, whereas we are a little light on for 10 year midfielders who aren't near the end.

 

[Levi_Hawk]

I posted on here a couple of months ago that we were right into Mundy. Not long after that there was an article saying a deal between he and Freo was imminent but since then it's gone quiet. From what I'd heard we were into him in a big way and we're pretty confidant of getting his signature. I think we would have the cap space to be able to bring Mundy and Frawley in via FA. Then possibly look to trade for a young mid.

 

[Arrogant Frog]

Mentioned this in the Nat Fyfe thread, but probably more appropriate in this one.

Would love to get Fyfe, but would be extremely hard obviously.

One player that does however interest me and hopefully is on our radar is Ryan Lester from Brisbane. Similar in stature to Fyfe 191cm and 83kg and only 21. He's out of contract at year end and is from Glen Waverley and played at Oakleigh Chargers. We know how much the hawks like versatile players and this kid can play midfield, forward and back.Played full back for Vic Metro at stages I believe, can also take a strong mark too.

I must admit I haven't seen a lot of Brisbane game over the years, but from what I have seen, he looks a really good prospect and surely wouldn't be overly keen to put pen to paper with the way the lions are going.

Would be interested in other peoples thoughts.

 

[cryptor]

Mentioned this in the Nat Fyfe thread, but probably more appropriate in this one.

Would love to get Fyfe, but would be extremely hard obviously.

One player that does however interest me and hopefully is on our radar is Ryan Lester from Brisbane. Similar in stature to Fyfe 191cm and 83kg and only 21. He's out of contract at year end and is from Glen Waverley and played at Oakleigh Chargers. We know how much the hawks like versatile players and this kid can play midfield, forward and back.Played full back for Vic Metro at stages I believe, can also take a strong mark too.

I must admit I haven't seen a lot of Brisbane game over the years, but from what I have seen, he looks a really good prospect and surely wouldn't be overly keen to put pen to paper with the way the lions are going.

Would be interested in other peoples thoughts.

I like the sound of him. He's the type of player I suggested a while back in this thread or another one on this board. The Liam Shiels kind of player who is actually quite good but doesn't get the plaudits because he plays a role that doesn't get the fanfare.

I know of Lester but don't really know much about him. He does appear to have the right assests. If he can kick and has a decent tank then I would hope we're all over him come the end of the season. Shouldn't demand much financially and his trade value wouldn't be too high at all I reckon.

 

[MrPremiership]

Mentioned this in the Nat Fyfe thread, but probably more appropriate in this one.

Would love to get Fyfe, but would be extremely hard obviously.

One player that does however interest me and hopefully is on our radar is Ryan Lester from Brisbane. Similar in stature to Fyfe 191cm and 83kg and only 21. He's out of contract at year end and is from Glen Waverley and played at Oakleigh Chargers. We know how much the hawks like versatile players and this kid can play midfield, forward and back.Played full back for Vic Metro at stages I believe, can also take a strong mark too.

I must admit I haven't seen a lot of Brisbane game over the years, but from what I have seen, he looks a really good prospect and surely wouldn't be overly keen to put pen to paper with the way the lions are going.

Would be interested in other peoples thoughts.

Great post.

I think it's going to be difficult. Brisbane don't have a heap of taken in that age bracket due to the "mummy's boys" departures last year of Polec, Yeo, Longer, so there is a real gap for them in that area. I don't see how a trade (presumably for a low end 2nd round pick) is going to tempt them too much, as they have a truckload of kids already. If it can be done, Wrighty will get it done, but a very astute observation, i don't think the guys here have thought of Lester as an option.

 

[GoldenHodge]

One player that does however interest me and hopefully is on our radar is Ryan Lester from Brisbane. Similar in stature to Fyfe 191cm and 83kg and only 21. He's out of contract at year end and is from Glen Waverley and played at Oakleigh Chargers. We know how much the hawks like versatile players and this kid can play midfield, forward and back.Played full back for Vic Metro at stages I believe, can also take a strong mark too.

Yes to Ryan Lester. From what I've seen of him, he's a handy player.

 

[Nuggets73]

Ahhhh ... Shopping time!! .. This will be nice!!!
... We'll have a far bit of cash to splash, should land 2 quality players.

Frawley in my book is cherry ripe ... We should go after him!
The kid is a gun ... He could be guided by Lake, Gibbo, etc .. Allow Shoey to go forward.
$800k a year .. SFA chance, not at Hawthorn ... $650k / 3 years.

Midfielders .. So many choices ... Can't decide on just one

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

but in all honesty how many teams have ready made replacements for their gun mids?

But, here's antoehr question for you......how many other teams are aiming to continue a premiership window?

These other teams, talk and try to trade for replacements but they struggle.

We have pull.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

which is why we need to supplement them.

That's what essendon said

 

[jpzhawk]

With all the cash we have, could we afford to land a couple of big fish ?
Nat Fyfe, Jeremy Cameron and James Frawley all holding off contract talks.
All a chance to be lured. All young enough.
Could the Hawks afford 2 of these 3 and which 2 would you take ?
Would be a massive trade deal !!!!!

 

[threesixpio]

With all the cash we have, could we afford to land a couple of big fish ?
Nat Fyfe, Jeremy Cameron and James Frawley all holding off contract talks.
All a chance to be lured. All young enough.
Could the Hawks afford 2 of these 3 and which 2 would you take ?
Would be a massive trade deal !!!!!

Got enough forwards. So I chose Fyfe and Frawley. Can we afford both? Nope. Can we afford one? Maybe

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Well, we tried to keep Buddy on a $1mil a season, so we must have some cash. Obviously some of that has been used on other signings, so say we have $700-800kish. That gets one of those players. So to get the other we'd have to find another $800k.

You'd think in this case, Sewell would have to go, and possibly another older player to raise that sort of cash quickly. Sewell would be on, what $350-400k a season?? So where do we get the other $400k from?? Who goes?

 

[Ram-Man]

Sorry guys - I heard it on good authority that the Sydney Swans are the destination of all three players.

Apparently the AFL have set up a new academy that falls outside the existing salary cap called PEPSI (Priority Elite Players Sydney Incorporated)