Review 2014 Post Season Member Briefing (fan forum)

[bennyboy4]

didnt go last night. Answers i want are. Have they looked at other clubs? i know over the offseason a guy they call flushy his name is luke moved over to collingwood from north melbourne. he was running the soft tissue team at north and didnt even get a look in to fix the problem at collingwood. considering north have had good run with injuries thought it would of been smart. Is bucks confident they have got the right mix?

 

[Kirby]

Reading this thread is really quite amusing.

People who actually ATTENDED were happy with the meeting and thought that the club did a good job trying to address the issues that were raised. It has been described as open and honest, not full of planted people asking questions they were prepared for.

Yet the posters who are eternally angry on these boards, who DID NOT ATTEND, sit back here and take pot shots at the whole thing and declare it a waste of time. I'm talking about posters like escobar, Krueger, PieBeast etc who come on these boards and whinge every day yet didn't attend, then still sit back and complain.

It would be funny if it wasn't so utterly predictable.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Yes this year unfortunately a lot can be attributed to personnel but things like leading patterns, creating space, teamwork, blocking, repeat leads, dummy leads, isolation mismatches etc is coach-able and all players should be learning and then implementing it in game day.

I hope the club is looking at better systems up forward and not just relying on personnel to fix it.

I felt that the biggest point on this was our transition running (lack of) and the general lack of fitness of players running up to support the forwards (and likewise players running back to support our backs) and this is a big area of improvement for the club

 

[augie]

A very interesting time for our Club. I personally think the forum was a great idea, and from the feedback from those who were there, in the main was reasonably valuable. But to be fair to those criticising it, it is the type of thing Eddie, Bucks and the Club generally do well, and doesn't really give us much hope that the downward spiral has finished.

I am ambivalent re Bucks. He just seems so knowledgeable, great mix of passionate and measured etc, but I can't get past that nagging feeling that he isn't inspiring his team to play with that same passion. But I guess part of that might be that we are losing more often than we have for a long time, and it is easy to confuse a lack of ability with a lack of passion.

In short, if there were easy answers we would have found them by now. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the purported dismantling of the list, we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We are where we are, and we have the team we have. There are three things the Club needs to dedicate all of its resources to - improving the fitness (and resilience) of our players, bringing in the right quality players and working on a game plan that is suited both to the players we have and the competition we are in. If the current coaching, recruitment and fitness staff are unable to achieve this over the next 12 months then a full overhaul must occur.

When I look at the current mix of players I cannot accept that we are a bottom 8 side, and I see an exceptionally bright future.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's fair enough that folks will be peeved off about the club, its 2014 performance, its matchday experience, etc, etc.

Many people who attended last night would have been peeved off. It was not a crowd of cheerleaders who turned up to sing the Collingwood song by any stretch of the imagination.

But the club made every reasonable effort to answer the concerns of people there, and their efforts were commendable.

The club patiently allowed folks to have their say when the crowd were clearly irritated by the person rambling on.

Eddie acknowledged many of the faults. He set the tone of the meeting early on when he described the matchday experience as "shithouse" and "like a trip to the tax office". He referred to the matchday up at Metricon and how the staff up there had been trained by Disney and put on a good show - in stark contrast to what we get at the MCG.

 

[Maggie5]

Whatever advantage they have by playing at their training bases is surely offset by the amount of traveling they do.
Obviously Geelong is a completely different story.
St Kilda are exactly where they were predicted to be when Lyon left.
And what happened to us over the last couple of years can not be considered a part of the natural cycle,

I may have been over enthusiastic in my comments but I still believe regarding interstate teams. Geelong have it easy.
I think that St Kilda fans would disagree with you as it was decisions of the board (coach) and recruitment that is why they are where they are. They could have done much better from where they were with still a good core group of players. We could have gone the same way too.

 

[Maggie5]

Apparently.

The question was answered by Hine, so he would have been answering from a playing list point of view - it would have included players like Gault, Scharenberg, Lynch, Kernezis, Oxley and Marsh who are taller players who haven't been getting much gametime.

Thanks 76, so if we take out, the players you mentioned plus Hudson, Witts and Grundy, overall we may not be that tall?

 

[Maggie5]

Other than maybe Geelong mate the interstate sides only get to train on the oval they play on once in the week leading up to their game… that is a total of 11 times for the year. Other than that they train on ovals just like olympic park… i.e. Port train at Alberton, Adelaide train on the old AAMI Stadium car park, Freo train down at Freo etc… And they only get 11 games on their oval as opposed to 14 for the Pies at the MCG… think it's clutching at straws to say they get it easy cause they don't train at same ground they play at and they travel every second week!

Didn't know that, what about WC, GCS and GWS? Most clubs are used to travelling by now and other clubs do it at least 5 times per year and sometimes more.
Hawthorn and NM in Tassie, Melb and WB in NT etc.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Thanks 76, so if we take out, the players you mentioned plus Hudson, Witts and Grundy, overall we may not be that tall?

Not much need to consider Witts, Grundy and Hudson - most teams would have around three tall ruckmen on their list. Witts is taller than average but it's not going to make a huge difference.

I would imagine the difference would be those players I listed who are on our roster but who haven't played.

 

[yazdo]

Shows that Hine thinks that Scharanberg when Fit will be something very special

I had dinner with Maxy at a product night for a company that sponsors him, he told me Heine rates Scharenberg very highly, said to Maxwell before the draft and I quote "I like Scharenberg at 6, he is a very special talent, like you Maxy except much much better" and maxwell laughed, we ate and I won the handball comp.

 

[hazzathehack]

I was at the meeting tonight, these are my notes off the top of my head on what I took away:
- Bucks reckons the game plan is simple, based on power running both ways. Only problem is the team is not fit enough to run offensively when we win the ball;

 

[domin8tors]

Or doesnt want to destroy a young players confidence who is about to go through a gruelling rehab...

He's not about to say "If I'd known Scharenberg was going to do his knee we would have taken Aish"

Edit: beaten to it

would anyone here take Taylor Walker or Michael Voss. perhaps Barlow. I'm sure people can see where I'm going with this. I see it as a blessing in the sense that another year off his feet will help with the stress fracture issues also.

 

[ClaytonM]

OK so how many years do we give someone a chance to review and learn from their mistakes? 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? Guess what Buckley has been working in the club refining his mistakes for over 4 years now. So we recruited an amateur coach, he appoints an amateur coaching team and an amateur football fitness director. It's a boys club down at collingwood with all the favourite sons guarranteed a spot on the coaching panel regardless of their credentials. And if they don't think coaching is their thing, throw em in the marketing department. The fact is all these mistakes would not have happened if we actually looked outside the organisation and hired professionals.

What is your solution? Obviously the first one is to sack Buckley. Fine. But who else goes? Eddie, Eade, Burns, most of the players añd the tea lady.

Funny how before Geelong's extended period of success people were asking for Bomber's head. More recently ex president Kennett was seeking Clarkson's head.

We can adopted the StKilda and Demons strategy of sacking the coach every few years when there isn't immediate success or we can take a more measured approach. This isn't to say Buckley is above criticism, but Malthouse had 10 years to win us a flag, Bomber Thompson had seven at Geelong.

Changing coach now would most likely be more detrimental to the club, and the young players confidence and sense of security than any 'damage' that may be caused by keeping Buckley.

 

[domin8tors]

Sorry but it goes much deeper than just a few suggestions and constructive criticism.

My only frustration is supporters overlooking what has happened to our great club.

I wonder if people forget that there are 18 teams in the comp and the AFL do their best to ensure that each club has a chance to win the flag at least once in a 18 year cycle. unlike Hawthorn and Geelong that many like to refer us to we have been so lucky to have had a chance of final 9 years in a row. perhaps the supporters who are insistent on bagging out the club should go follow Melb

 

[domin8tors]

Yes this year unfortunately a lot can be attributed to personnel but things like leading patterns, creating space, teamwork, blocking, repeat leads, dummy leads, isolation mismatches etc is coach-able and all players should be learning and then implementing it in game day.

I hope the club is looking at better systems up forward and not just relying on personnel to fix it.

you answered your on question. when young players come in and out you don't create continuity so therefore, leading patterns and creating space and teamwork takes time.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Davoren spent a fair time going through causal factors of soft tissue injuries. There were about 8 to 10 and I don't remember what they were. But they did include fatigue and a 'wrong place wrong time' type cause.

He cited the specific example of Freeman's injury which he said was amongst the worst he's seen - the player was fatigued (last 10 minutes of the game), he was running at full speed (muscles were under maximum load) when some act by an opposition player (don't remember) caused a perfect storm and the hamstring gave way.

Freeman had been reported to be in full training over the last 3 or 4 weeks (IIRC).

In question time a bloke asked if we were using cycling as part of training? Davoren anticipated what was behind the question (apparently can cause shorter hamstrings) and he said cycling is only really used in pre-season (presumably to build fitness) and they don't really use them much after Christmas.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Davoren spent a fair time going through causal factors of soft tissue injuries. There were about 8 to 10 and I don't remember what they were. But they did include fatigue and a 'wrong place wrong time' type cause.

He cited the specific example of Freeman's injury which he said was amongst the worst he's seen - the player was fatigued (last 10 minutes of the game), he was running at full speed (muscles were under maximum load) when some act by an opposition player (don't remember) caused a perfect storm and the hamstring gave way.

Freeman had been reported to be in full training over the last 3 or 4 weeks (IIRC).

In question time a bloke asked if we were using cycling as part of training? Davoren anticipated what was behind the question (apparently can cause shorter hamstrings) and he said cycling is only used in pre-season (presumably to build fitness) and they don't really use them after Christmas.

Also said Marsh's injury was similar in regards to the occurence of the injury. Don't think he meant the severity.

 

[danielnajdek]

The bolded section is an out an out lie! They are on the bikes once a week for fitness purposes and once a week for recovery purposes…

I swear I saw a player on a exercise bike in the video when Luke Ball was retiring.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The bolded section is an out an out lie! They are on the bikes once a week for fitness purposes and once a week for recovery purposes…

I'll qualify what I said - Davoren didn't say the cycles were collecting dust 9 months of the year, it was more that their use during the season was insignificant (that was my takeaway)

And Ed backed it up by saying that he had chatted to someone at New England Patriots who had told him that until cycling becomes a part of American Football, they wouldn't be using cycles for fitness.

But, dunno, maybe there are load conditions to take into consideration? Maybe sitting on a bike freewheeling is different to dropping down into low gear and charging up the Pyrennees?

 

[MyManLynch]

Don't most clubs use bikes at half time as well? Or has that been stopped?

Edit - used just for cool down, warm up rather than solid hard training?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Having just had a look back at the NAB cup game he does his hamstring kicking the ball without anyone touching him with 4 mins and 20 seconds left in the first half. Nowhere near 10 minutes to go in the game and no opposition player caused it he was just kicking the ball while running at about 80% pace by the vision! Just another lie from Davoren!

Was that at Kardinia? Davoren specifically refered to an injury to Freeman that happened down there.

 

[danielnajdek]

Having just had a look back at the NAB cup game he does his hamstring kicking the ball without anyone touching him with 4 mins and 20 seconds left in the first half. Nowhere near 10 minutes to go in the game and no opposition player caused it he was just kicking the ball while running at about 80% pace by the vision! Just another lie from Davoren!

Would never believe anything the club has said this year. Been lie after lie.

As for Davoren I wished he got the arse.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

He cited the specific example of Freeman's injury which he said was amongst the worst he's seen - the player was fatigued (last 10 minutes of the game), he was running at full speed (muscles were under maximum load) when some act by an opposition player (don't remember) caused a perfect storm and the hamstring gave way.

Freeman had been reported to be in full training over the last 3 or 4 weeks (IIRC).

The question that I would of loved to ask but didn't get a chance too, is why they were reporting Freeman's injury as 2-3 weeks in the papers, when it was very serious. To me that is deliberately misleading the members.

The problem with the member Q & A on the night is that members were asking multiple questions which agitated Eddie as he wanted a more 1 question then done. There were also members that got up on the microphone and rambled on for several minutes about how many membership they bought, who they go with the footy with, without discussing or asking questions about issues.

 

[MyManLynch]

Salary cap banking.
Some mention (by Hine) as to why we were recruiting some cheaper players to top up our list.
Did he actually say we are banking some cap OR we had to go after such players because that's all we could afford? I hope it's the former.

 

[Bard]

Salary cap banking.
Some mention (by Hine) as to why we were recruiting some cheaper players to top up our list.
Did he actually say we are banking some cap OR we had to go after such players because that's all we could afford? I hope it's the former.

I took it to mean banking personally, what with the minimum % requirement.