Do we assume Monocle wants Balic?
BigFooty Official 2015 Big Footy Phantom Draft (Trial Run)
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'Very rare you find a capable 18 year old key forward mid-late draft'
Tippett was drafted as an overaged player. I believe he'd played basketball and wasn't really part of the junior setup. Would wager that if he focused on football as a 17 year old he'd have been noticed and gone first round. Westhoff was drafted two years out of juniors - a genuine mature age player.
The argument I'm making is that junior key forwards who are in the system and don't go early are normally not worth it. Westhoff a little before my time but my guess is that he wasn't part of the national junior setup either. Like Ben Brown and Josh Jenkins, the ones who weren't drafted early are usually blokes who either were injured as juniors or just weren't part of the system.
I agree, as the draft goes on the rate of success is lower. But it's much, much lower for key forwards than other positions. I'm certain of that. Got to play the odds.
Monocle
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Pick # 17. West Coast Select . Harley Balic. 186 cm 80 kg. Sandringham Dragons. Mid / Hff.
Balic is a smooth footballer and has the appearance of gliding through traffic, he has been used as a half forward and his ability to set up offensive plays is quite impressive. He has also been rotated through the midfield at the Dragons and to a lesser extent with Vic Metro. His skills by hand and foot are excellent and he hits targets regularly. He has a basket ball background and it shows , he has that knack of being able to think his way through heavy traffic. Its his football IQ that first impressed me as he has Pendlebury like characteristics of working the ball out of a congested pack situation as well as being able to link up play well, his vision and awareness is most impressive.
From viewing his raw skills and his footy smarts I believe that Balic has a high ceiling and whilst he will start his AFL career as a half forward I see him, as he grows and develops, becoming a very polished midfielder that has that dangerous ability to do scoreboard damage when playing inside the forward 50.
Balic is already a good size and I wouldn't be surprised if he played in his first year, because he links up so well he will not find it difficult playing around better players at the next level. He sees avenues and small gaps to move the ball through and move the play forward. His lateral movement is also well honed and is not surprising given his basket ball background.
Why he fits WC 's needs is that he adds another player to the list that can take their turn running through the midfield rotations, and his presence on the forward line will not weaken the scoring potential to allow the likes of Le Cras and Shuey to alternate with Balic in the mid /hff rotations.
Also considered Ah Chee however from what I have seen of him he is never going to be anything other than a small forward , al be it , a very dangerous one. Balic's versatility and decision making sealed the selection. Also liked Weiderman and had WC not been blessed with tall's at the moment he would have warranted very strong consideration.
Chris25 your up
Pick # 17. West Coast Select . Harley Balic. 186 cm 80 kg. Sandringham Dragons. Mid / Hff.
Balic is a smooth footballer and has the appearance of gliding through traffic, he has been used as a half forward and his ability to set up offensive plays is quite impressive. He has also been rotated through the midfield at the Dragons and to a lesser extent with Vic Metro. His skills by hand and foot are excellent and he hits targets regularly. He has a basket ball background and it shows , he has that knack of being able to think his way through heavy traffic. Its his football IQ that first impressed me as he has Pendlebury like characteristics of working the ball out of a congested pack situation as well as being able to link up play well, his vision and awareness is most impressive.
From viewing his raw skills and his footy smarts I believe that Balic has a high ceiling and whilst he will start his AFL career as a half forward I see him, as he grows and develops, becoming a very polished midfielder that has that dangerous ability to do scoreboard damage when playing inside the forward 50.
Balic is already a good size and I wouldn't be surprised if he played in his first year, because he links up so well he will not find it difficult playing around better players at the next level. He sees avenues and small gaps to move the ball through and move the play forward. His lateral movement is also well honed and is not surprising given his basket ball background.
Why he fits WC 's needs is that he adds another player to the list that can take their turn running through the midfield rotations, and his presence on the forward line will not weaken the scoring potential to allow the likes of Le Cras and Shuey to alternate with Balic in the mid /hff rotations.
Also considered Ah Chee however from what I have seen of him he is never going to be anything other than a small forward , al be it , a very dangerous one. Balic's versatility and decision making sealed the selection. Also liked Weiderman and had WC not been blessed with tall's at the moment he would have warranted very strong consideration.
Chris25 your up
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Chris25
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Generally in the trial run, I'll go slightly left field with my first pick. And I could have easily gone with Himmelberg or Hibberd here, both who I rate around this mark. But I've found a new way to shake things up. By taking someone that BigFooty doesn't rate.
Pick 18 Fremantle - Sam Weideman (196cm, 91kg forward from Eastern Ranges)
I was going to pose a question in my phantom draft thread a couple of weeks ago, but it's worked out nicely to do it here instead. Josh Schache was the first pick, Sam Weideman the last pick of the first round. But who is the better player?
I don't think you'll find too many people who would side with Weideman. And I concede that Schache has him covered at the moment. But I think it's much closer than BigFooty think. The general consensus on here, is that the media is overrating him. He was rated highly coming into last season and has a famous name, but has done nothing to justify the hype. I disagree. And I think he could end up the better player.
Schache is a fine player and there's nothing to say he wont develop into a top level key forward. Don't get me wrong there. He obviously has the runs on the board, and has had a remarkable season. His strength in the body and hands is superior to Weideman, as is his endurance. And to date, he is the more consistent performer. But I would argue they're the only areas in which he is clearly ahead.
Weideman is an underrated athlete for mine. His endurance needs to improve, but there's every chance that he has done that during his injury layoff. We'll have to wait and see. Otherwise though, he moves nicely for a big man and times his jumps well. His speed may not be anything to write home about, but he times his leads well and I think gets better separation than Schache. And that leads me to his biggest strength. He is a smart footballer. Maybe because he doesn't have the strength of Schache yet, it means he has had to learn to get his ball in other ways. And he's done that by being able to read the play better than most key forwards, and getting into good positions. Then he uses his body to work off his opponent and take advantage.
As I said before, Schache has the four quarter performances on his side. He's more consistent across a whole match. But, when he's on, Weideman has arguably shown more impressive signs. His first quarter against the Northern Blues for the AIS Academy was excellent. He kicked 2 goals that match, while Schache kicked 3. But Weideman was the better forward. It was how he got those goals. He presented strongly, marked well and outpositioned his opponent on numerous forward entries. When the game was up for grabs early, he's the one who stood up.
Otherwise, I keep seeing Schache listed as one of the best kicks in the draft. On goal, that's pretty accurate. But Weideman is just as good a field kick in my opinion and has a nice routine on goal too. And something that often gets forgotten in amateur analysis is on and off field character. And Weideman looks every part the leader on the field. Key forwards are never safe prospects, but it wont be for lack of trying if Weideman doesn't make it.
At the end of the day, I don't think much will separate the two. If it wasn't for injuries, who knows how the top end of the draft would look. The point is, there are options for key forwards outside of Schache. You just need to be looking at the end picture.
Pick 18 Fremantle - Sam Weideman (196cm, 91kg forward from Eastern Ranges)
I was going to pose a question in my phantom draft thread a couple of weeks ago, but it's worked out nicely to do it here instead. Josh Schache was the first pick, Sam Weideman the last pick of the first round. But who is the better player?
I don't think you'll find too many people who would side with Weideman. And I concede that Schache has him covered at the moment. But I think it's much closer than BigFooty think. The general consensus on here, is that the media is overrating him. He was rated highly coming into last season and has a famous name, but has done nothing to justify the hype. I disagree. And I think he could end up the better player.
Schache is a fine player and there's nothing to say he wont develop into a top level key forward. Don't get me wrong there. He obviously has the runs on the board, and has had a remarkable season. His strength in the body and hands is superior to Weideman, as is his endurance. And to date, he is the more consistent performer. But I would argue they're the only areas in which he is clearly ahead.
Weideman is an underrated athlete for mine. His endurance needs to improve, but there's every chance that he has done that during his injury layoff. We'll have to wait and see. Otherwise though, he moves nicely for a big man and times his jumps well. His speed may not be anything to write home about, but he times his leads well and I think gets better separation than Schache. And that leads me to his biggest strength. He is a smart footballer. Maybe because he doesn't have the strength of Schache yet, it means he has had to learn to get his ball in other ways. And he's done that by being able to read the play better than most key forwards, and getting into good positions. Then he uses his body to work off his opponent and take advantage.
As I said before, Schache has the four quarter performances on his side. He's more consistent across a whole match. But, when he's on, Weideman has arguably shown more impressive signs. His first quarter against the Northern Blues for the AIS Academy was excellent. He kicked 2 goals that match, while Schache kicked 3. But Weideman was the better forward. It was how he got those goals. He presented strongly, marked well and outpositioned his opponent on numerous forward entries. When the game was up for grabs early, he's the one who stood up.
Otherwise, I keep seeing Schache listed as one of the best kicks in the draft. On goal, that's pretty accurate. But Weideman is just as good a field kick in my opinion and has a nice routine on goal too. And something that often gets forgotten in amateur analysis is on and off field character. And Weideman looks every part the leader on the field. Key forwards are never safe prospects, but it wont be for lack of trying if Weideman doesn't make it.
At the end of the day, I don't think much will separate the two. If it wasn't for injuries, who knows how the top end of the draft would look. The point is, there are options for key forwards outside of Schache. You just need to be looking at the end picture.
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
15. Ben Keays, 185cm MID, Brisbane Academy.
The Hawthorn selection ethos seems to be built around and versatility, decision making and footskills, which I guess is why Bonner keeps coming up around this mark. But not only does Keays have all of those attributes, I reckon his ability to play a bit more inside makes him the better long term fit here, given Anderson and Woodward haven't really come on as yet.
Keays has a really nice balance to his game, he can win his own ball but he's not just an inside truck, he can get out and spread away from the contest but he's not just an outside receiver, he's got a nice leg on him, he's smart with the ball and he's shown he knows what he's doing when he's around the goals. In short, he's good, very good even, at pretty much everything without having a standout attribute.
If he could put on a few kilos and not lose that nice, agile first step he's got I could see him turning out something akin to the guy he'll probably line up next to next year in Brissy in Dayne Beams, a prolific midfielder who can weave and break through congestion and is usually good for a goal a game to boot.
Pick 19 - Brisbane
Nicholas O'Kearney
Okay I am going witht the front page and assuming it is my pick and not GC. With the two academy kids off the board I have decided to shock everyone and not go with a div 2 kid. Brisbane need to improve the depth of our midfield unit as anyone who has been following out twos will know. We had 2 midfield AAs this year in the academy group and that should help out over the next two years.
For this pick though I am going with O'Kearney who has become very unfashionable. At this stage though I am prepared to ride production. The kid can get a tonne of it and will work his butt off both on the field and off it to get better. When Metro were poor at the Champs (and that happened a lot), O'Kearney was the one who stood up and lead. He was the one mucking in and doing the dirty work when heads were dropping.
O'Kearney is a midfielder at junior level and I expect that to continue at senior level. He does get forward and is dangerous floating forward. He has shown a good ability to kick goals and I would expect that to bump him up a few lists coming into the draft. O'Kearney is very smart about where he runs to and he finds seems all over the park and keeps working into them.
He plays as an inside out midfielder and he gets his hands on the ball first in the contest a lot. He is not one of those players who seems to have a lot of time with the ball but he does a fair job shuffling the ball out of the contest. He reads the taps well and positions to receive nicely. He is clean enough and his hands are quickish. He can lack a little awareness on occasions.
The biggest issue for him at the moment is his disposal skills. He is untidy by foot and can miss targets or bounce them there. I do not think he has great feel on his kicking. He is a left footer and does lack hurt factor. It is not all doom and gloom though and I do think there has been improvement in him. He is a kid who works hard to improve his game and I expect that he will work hard to improve his kicking in a full time environment.
Overall I would describe him as a ball magnet who lacks a bit of class. He is more athletic than Priddis but that is the type of player I could see him being in the AFL. Seeing as Priddis is the reigning Brownlow medallist I would suggest that is not so terrible.
Nicholas O'Kearney
Okay I am going witht the front page and assuming it is my pick and not GC. With the two academy kids off the board I have decided to shock everyone and not go with a div 2 kid. Brisbane need to improve the depth of our midfield unit as anyone who has been following out twos will know. We had 2 midfield AAs this year in the academy group and that should help out over the next two years.
For this pick though I am going with O'Kearney who has become very unfashionable. At this stage though I am prepared to ride production. The kid can get a tonne of it and will work his butt off both on the field and off it to get better. When Metro were poor at the Champs (and that happened a lot), O'Kearney was the one who stood up and lead. He was the one mucking in and doing the dirty work when heads were dropping.
O'Kearney is a midfielder at junior level and I expect that to continue at senior level. He does get forward and is dangerous floating forward. He has shown a good ability to kick goals and I would expect that to bump him up a few lists coming into the draft. O'Kearney is very smart about where he runs to and he finds seems all over the park and keeps working into them.
He plays as an inside out midfielder and he gets his hands on the ball first in the contest a lot. He is not one of those players who seems to have a lot of time with the ball but he does a fair job shuffling the ball out of the contest. He reads the taps well and positions to receive nicely. He is clean enough and his hands are quickish. He can lack a little awareness on occasions.
The biggest issue for him at the moment is his disposal skills. He is untidy by foot and can miss targets or bounce them there. I do not think he has great feel on his kicking. He is a left footer and does lack hurt factor. It is not all doom and gloom though and I do think there has been improvement in him. He is a kid who works hard to improve his game and I expect that he will work hard to improve his kicking in a full time environment.
Overall I would describe him as a ball magnet who lacks a bit of class. He is more athletic than Priddis but that is the type of player I could see him being in the AFL. Seeing as Priddis is the reigning Brownlow medallist I would suggest that is not so terrible.
foj1
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Pick 5 Essendon Darcy Parish 181cm midfielder
This kids is a natural footballer and the best midfielder in the draft.
He reminds me of Joel selwood at tac level. He is a ball magnet who is just a bit smarter than his opponents.
Darcy has a nice inside outside game and I like kids who can win their own football as well as have the ability to run away from a contest with above average speed.
Darcy's biggest weakness for mine is he does not possess an afl rig at this stage. However this will come in time.
Parish and Zac merrett together would be the nucleus of a talented albeit undersized midfield.
The only available player I had at this pick beside parish is Sam Weideman who I rate as high as the other big blokes in this draft. Our footy club bypassed selwood for gumbleton and you gotta learn from history!
This kids is a natural footballer and the best midfielder in the draft.
He reminds me of Joel selwood at tac level. He is a ball magnet who is just a bit smarter than his opponents.
Darcy has a nice inside outside game and I like kids who can win their own football as well as have the ability to run away from a contest with above average speed.
Darcy's biggest weakness for mine is he does not possess an afl rig at this stage. However this will come in time.
Parish and Zac merrett together would be the nucleus of a talented albeit undersized midfield.
The only available player I had at this pick beside parish is Sam Weideman who I rate as high as the other big blokes in this draft. Our footy club bypassed selwood for gumbleton and you gotta learn from history!
foj1
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Damn!!!!
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It's not a bad draft when Ah Chee goes at 20 and at least one other off top of head be happy Pies taking with their first.
Pick 21 - Carlton - Darcy Tucker - VC (184.0 cm, 78.0 kg - Small Defender)
This is one of those drafts for Carlton where the talls I would like to select are going just before my selections. In the first round, Carlton would hope for Schache or Weitering I would think and he goes before their selections.
In the second round I was dreaming about Collins lasting until my selection and he went just before my selection.
Tucker is an interesting player and I am not sure if it was a case of me being slightly critical of his game but he fumbled a little in this one game that made me question his high ranking. While saying I did question his high ranking, I still think pick 21 is certainly not overpaying.
He will start his career playing like Kade Simpson in many regards and hopefully learns plenty from him in the next two years. He is a quick HBF player that loves to run and carry and Carlton have recruiter their inside midfielders with Cripps and Mills, it is time for the outside run and carry.
Solid by foot and has an AFL styled body shape, so I don't think it will take long to adjust to the AFL game. Last year there were talks about him being a potential top 5 draft pick, so it is a long fall from those heights and I think his lack of midfield minutes has dropped him down the rankings.
Often those Country boys have some upside due to travel issues during their rookie years.
This is one of those drafts for Carlton where the talls I would like to select are going just before my selections. In the first round, Carlton would hope for Schache or Weitering I would think and he goes before their selections.
In the second round I was dreaming about Collins lasting until my selection and he went just before my selection.
Tucker is an interesting player and I am not sure if it was a case of me being slightly critical of his game but he fumbled a little in this one game that made me question his high ranking. While saying I did question his high ranking, I still think pick 21 is certainly not overpaying.
He will start his career playing like Kade Simpson in many regards and hopefully learns plenty from him in the next two years. He is a quick HBF player that loves to run and carry and Carlton have recruiter their inside midfielders with Cripps and Mills, it is time for the outside run and carry.
Solid by foot and has an AFL styled body shape, so I don't think it will take long to adjust to the AFL game. Last year there were talks about him being a potential top 5 draft pick, so it is a long fall from those heights and I think his lack of midfield minutes has dropped him down the rankings.
Often those Country boys have some upside due to travel issues during their rookie years.
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There he goes. To good to be pick 21
foj1
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Yep great value pick right there.
I reckon the depth is starting to dwindle already.
I think the top 20 is very solid but it is a crap shoot from there.
Pick 22. Melbourne - Thomas Cole
H 185 cm, W 76kg, DoB 28/8/97
Vic Country via Bendigo Pioneers
Half back/Midfielder
Thomas is a running half back flank who is starting to spend more time through the midfield. He has attributes that would add nicely to the formidable midfield that Melbourne are amassing. Versatility, speed and ability to go forward and impact the scoreboard. He uses the ball well without being elite and generally hits his targets (confidence to do so with both left and right).
Melbourne will continue to want players that will be versatile and work as a unit and I think Cole adds to the likes of Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca and co. Starting to show that he can be damaging and not afraid of going deep in attack and scoring. He is the sort of player that will flourish when surrounded by quality and will bring his game up to that level, as is the case with Tyson. A relatively safe selection but I believe one that will pay dividends.
Over to you foj1
H 185 cm, W 76kg, DoB 28/8/97
Vic Country via Bendigo Pioneers
Half back/Midfielder
Thomas is a running half back flank who is starting to spend more time through the midfield. He has attributes that would add nicely to the formidable midfield that Melbourne are amassing. Versatility, speed and ability to go forward and impact the scoreboard. He uses the ball well without being elite and generally hits his targets (confidence to do so with both left and right).
Melbourne will continue to want players that will be versatile and work as a unit and I think Cole adds to the likes of Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca and co. Starting to show that he can be damaging and not afraid of going deep in attack and scoring. He is the sort of player that will flourish when surrounded by quality and will bring his game up to that level, as is the case with Tyson. A relatively safe selection but I believe one that will pay dividends.
Over to you foj1
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foj1
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Pick 23 Essendon Callum Moore 193cm Forward Calder Cannons
Callum has some super strengths. He has the capacity to take contested marks. He has a super leap and he has above average speed and agility for his size.
His weaknesses are his kicking action is not fluid and he doesn't get as many easy marks in the forward 50 as he should. Which is due to the fact that he doesn't lead smartly at this stage.
However this time last year he was playing local football and basketball so he has come a long way in a short time.
Moore has the body to play afl footy straightaway and will be pretty exciting. I reckon there is a hint of boom or bust on this selection.
If jake Carlisle stays at Essendon I am pretty pleased with the first two rounds of the draft. If he leaves I feel like Essendon would have to go for a weideman and then midfielders.
What would Essendon supporters prefer if the draft played out this way and Carlisle stays?
Parish and Moore or weideman and greetham?
Callum has some super strengths. He has the capacity to take contested marks. He has a super leap and he has above average speed and agility for his size.
His weaknesses are his kicking action is not fluid and he doesn't get as many easy marks in the forward 50 as he should. Which is due to the fact that he doesn't lead smartly at this stage.
However this time last year he was playing local football and basketball so he has come a long way in a short time.
Moore has the body to play afl footy straightaway and will be pretty exciting. I reckon there is a hint of boom or bust on this selection.
If jake Carlisle stays at Essendon I am pretty pleased with the first two rounds of the draft. If he leaves I feel like Essendon would have to go for a weideman and then midfielders.
What would Essendon supporters prefer if the draft played out this way and Carlisle stays?
Parish and Moore or weideman and greetham?
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Yeah I think the first 20-25 are really high quality but it does taper after that. I think you will find clubs either try and trade into the 20-25 and try and get access to more or they will trade away their picks through the trade period and just have one or two and a rookie upgrade at the back end. Picking which clubs do what will be interesting. You'd think Carlton would be an example of the former and maybe Collingwood, Richmond, North on the other end.
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Was just about to leave to go to a game or two, if possible I'll take the selection at around 6 tonight?
HawkintheTuarts
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I don't think the draft quality is that bad or any different this year. The amount of potential draft-able players just may be smaller, that's where the noise about the weak draft is coming from but there's plenty of good kids, 20-odd that look quality so not really that big a difference.
Surely it takes less than 2 minutes to make a selection?
Taking 5 hours to think about who to select is just plain insane. (Unless you don't own some sort of smart phone and cannot sit down at quarter time, half time.... to simply write down a name.
I would hope that most people doing this mock draft have some sort of list ready.
You cross off the names off your list and when it gets to your pick, you often have 2-4 options and you select the best option.
Anyway, this happens every year with the draft, not sure why it bugs me each year.
Yeah while it is strange that he couldn't have talent he pick in the time it took to write the post asking if he can take it later , we have to remember that no is paying him , and these guys are doing it out of the love of it.
So while we all would love to see it move quicker , I'm very happy just to be able to chat and listen to these guys that go out and watch the juniors and are willing to share.
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