List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[pepalenko]

Did anyone listen to Gibbs on sen not too long ago? He stated that he and Murphy Sat down with the "club hierarchy" who made it clear to them that they would not be traded.

A few other things he said made it feel like the playing group, or he at the very least, had been lost by malthouse (to some extent). He did not explicitly say this but that was just my feeling reading between the lines.

If those two boys are staying then it looks like it will be hendo and yarran on the table. My guess is hendo given the contractual situation.

Lachie Charm has been saying that the club have pretty much put off contract talks with Hendo to see what they would be potentially getting. Seemed sure and this kind of strengthens that point.

 

[Wickzki]

Ever heard of Mark Blicavs?

He played a lot of junior football and was exceptionally gifted. He played more junior football than the likes of Hampson, etc. It's not as though Geelong drafted in a kid who had never played the game.

Here's an article: http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2013-04-02/blicavs-debut-no-surprise

 

[lachie charm]

Lachie Charm has been saying that the club have pretty much put off contract talks with Hendo to see what they would be potentially getting. Seemed sure and this kind of strengthens that point.

When SOS isn't allowed to trade Gibbs or Murph, Lach is the next cab off the rank.

 

[pepalenko]

When SOS isn't allowed to trade Gibbs or Murph, Lach is the next cab off the rank.

I understand the implication and it's unfortunate, because if i was being honest, i would rather Gibbs and Murph traded than Henderson and Yarran.

 

[rp84]

Keep Murph, gibbs and hendo should be on the table IMO.

As part of program youth, the better leader out of Cripps or Doc should be made captain.

 

[Wickzki]

I understand the implication and it's unfortunate, because if i was being honest, i would rather Gibbs and Murph traded than Henderson and Yarran.

When they refuse to entertain the thought of trading one or both it shows just how inept the club is.

The club should be putting the fear of God into them. There's absolutely no reason for either of them to lift because they've both been handsomely paid and now they've been told that they're essentially safe regardless of how poor the club plays.

 

[Wickzki]

As part of program youth, the better leader out of Cripps or Doc should be made captain.

Not yet. That philosophy worked out real well at Melbourne.

Make them captain when they're ready to be captain.

 

[rp84]

Taking into account the issues discussed with menz, IF the contract issues and turning into a toss pot are true, we should CONSIDER offers for him. I would only accept top 5 pick plus player for him. Would be the kind of player to carve it up in GWS' forward line.

If anyone is interested in building teams from bottom up (well even from below bottom), check out what Sam Hinkie is doing with the Philadelphia 76ers. Accepting being bad, while assessing young players, finding diamonds in the rough and then high draft picks being used by someone who knows what they are doing..

I think (hope) SOS is our man.

 

[rp84]

Not yet. That philosophy worked out real well at Melbourne.

Make them captain when they're ready to be captain.

I dont think melbourne is the right club to asses how a program works.

You pick the best leader. If its one of those, you go for it IMO

 

[Coona Blues]

It is reprehensible that we have only recently offloaded multiple players who were "clogging" the list due to extended
contracts only to then sign speculative additions Jones, Tutt and Dick on multi yeared contracts to balance the profile of our list.

Surely Byrne, Sheehan and Wood need upgrading to the senior list (is Johnson in his last rookie year, 2 or 3 these days?)
We need draft room for top end KPP, Mid, Rice, Silvagni and a ruck at a bare minimum...that is 8 spots. Unless we are
trading our "top end" talent for picks, I cannot see 8 retirees or delisting candidates.

 

[rp84]

Judd, carrots, ellard, Armfield, warnock, watson, walker, Giles, holman and potentially simpson will be gone.

Gibbs, hendo, yaz up for trade. MK may leave.

Plenty of list spots up for grabs.

 

[1981]

Ok so the plot thickens

Let's assume for now the things we have heard go the way they appear to go, if that makes sense

If we take what Bryce , and in turn the club have said at face value, then it means Bryce and Marc won't be traded

... and if you buy the rumors going around then Hendo will go to Geelong.

Now, surely not even Carlton could cokc up the Hendo trade, so let's assume we get Geelong's first pick instead of their second pick. Based off their ladder position prior to this round that would be pick 7

And, let's also assume Yarran gets traded. If Marc and Bryce are off the table , then Chris (along with Lachie) would be the next likely candidates for trade in terms of landing a good pick. The article in The Age the other day about trading Yarran made a fair bit of sense and right now Chris is not playing like a happy camper so there is a fair argument to suggest he gets traded also. Now let's also assume Chris goes back to WA, and for arguments sakes say he goes to WC for their first rounder which is pick 17.

All of this would mean Carlton go to the draft with the following top picks (possible choices in brackets)

1 Weitering (tall defender)
7 Best available mid
17 Best available mid
19 Rice (future mid)
37 SOSOS (future tall forward)

Not a bad haul really

Reality is we need to get as many top quality talls and mids as possible

Now there is an arguement you take talls early as they take longer to develop but with the same token you should never take talls for the sake of it, let's call that the Matthew Watson rule

And similarly as important as talls are the reality is these days you need a deep midfield to compete so you also need to get as many good mids as possible

So really I think unless there are two stand out talls in the first seven picks, chances are we take Weitering at #1 and then mids thereafter knowing that SOSOS will be a tall albeit maybe not a no.1 KPP

Reality is this rebuild will take years and we can't fix it in one draft period

So maybe in 2016 we go ...

#1 Tall
#19 Mid

And ditto in 2017

And remember there is also FA so we hopefully get to add quality to the list that way too

To be frank I think the best way to get a KPP is via FA, as KPPs are risky propositions via the draft. I'd sooner take mids via the draft as they are a bit easier to predict in terms of likely success.

Perhaps the clubs strategy is to get x1 quality KPP via FA two years running and load up on the best mids via the draft

I wouldn't mind that approach. It would mean we quickly add quality mids to the base we already have of Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Bell.

 

[Cringle]

It sucks that we have so many problems that we there really isn't a priority on what to draft.

Say we do end up trading Henderson for pick 10 (or around that).

That only leaves us Jaksch (assuming Watson is delisted) as our young KPP. Foster and Fields are the other two but who know how they'll go.

 

[pepalenko]

It sucks that we have so many problems that we there really isn't a priority on what to draft.

Say we do end up trading Henderson for pick 10 (or around that).

That only leaves us Jaksch (assuming Watson is delisted) as our young KPP. Foster and Fields are the other two but who know how they'll go.

Giles?


Crosses fingers

 

[Cringle]

Giles?


Crosses fingers

I doubt he remembers what a football is now... been out of the game for a few hundred years.

 

[1981]

It sucks that we have so many problems that we there really isn't a priority on what to draft.

Say we do end up trading Henderson for pick 10 (or around that).

That only leaves us Jaksch (assuming Watson is delisted) as our young KPP. Foster and Fields are the other two but who know how they'll go.

Casboult looks to have sorted his kicking out
Stats show he's nowhere near the worst kick going around and Sav seems to have helped him big time granted that's just a couple weeks

Add Weitering and Kreuzer

And SOSOS

And possibly lure a gun KPP via FA - we are going to have shitloads of dough

 

[1981]

Thats not a bad strategy
Reality is we need to hope some of what we have comes to fruition, we add some via the draft and some via FA

Casboult is pretty much universally regarded the best contested mark in the comp and his kicking last two games though not inc last night as the ball hardly got near him , has been very good, so let's take the leap of faith and say he makes the grade

Then let's hope Kreuzer makes the grade. Ideally Kreuzer and Cas will be our rucks/fwds, interchanging with each other. That's the ideal scenario.

Jack Silvangi and Menzel are the two other lead up forwards. Jack will from all reports be around 192cm.

Jaksch we have to hope with some muscle on him will become a good KPP.

Then we add the monstrous key defender Weitering

And maybe pinch a quality KPP via FA

So moving fwds it is ...

Key Defenders : Weitering, Jaksch & Player Via FA
Key Forwards : Casboult , Kreuzer & Silvagni

Now that's just taking one KPP via the draft

With 4 picks in top 20 this year plus 2016/17 drafts that's a lot of other picks

 

[Cringle]

Casboult looks to have sorted his kicking out
Stats show he's nowhere near the worst kick going around and Sav seems to have helped him big time granted that's just a couple weeks

Add Weitering and Kreuzer

And SOSOS

And possibly lure a gun KPP via FA - we are going to have shitloads of dough

Casboult is 25 years old. His best position is forward/ruck where he can spend time up the ground getting his hands on the ball as well as deep forward kicking a couple. He's not a KPF.

Kruezer is Gumbleton.

 

[1981]

Casboult is 25 years old. His best position is forward/ruck where he can spend time up the ground getting his hands on the ball as well as deep forward kicking a couple. He's not a KPF.

Kruezer is Gumbleton.

Are you serious???

He's 198/9 cm and a brut, and the best contested mark and you don't think he's a KPP??

Talls take time to develop and he's arguably about to blossom, assuming the kicking is improving and it would help if the midfield wasn't wooden spoon caliber.

Get a good midfield and opposition defenses will have nightmares stopping Levi with the ball coming down to him often with good delivery.

The fact he can ruck is a bonus and doesn't mean he can't be a KPP

25 is young for a KPP, that's when they start hitting their straps, aside from freaks like Cameron.

Listen I hate to break it to you but we are not going to get 4 new gun KPPs overnight let alone in 3 years in the ND , some are going to have to come from what we currently have

As I said we have to hope Kreuzer comes on, so no need to reiterate he's had injuries as we are all well aware of this

How about you put forward some suggested paths to improvement instead of merely regurgitating the obvious with a tint of negativity???

Kreuzer stayed at the club when he could have left for more money, he's the sort of character clubs need so Carlton will give him every chance to succeed. Chances are he's up against it but he's only what 25/26 so he's not old yet and so still is a chance

 

[BM123]

If we are going for a full on rebuild I'd be looking at trading out the likes of Casboult and Tuohy for draft picks or youth.

 

[BM123]

Are you serious???

He's 198/9 cm and a brut, and the best contested mark and you don't think he's a KPP??

Talls take time to develop and he's arguably about to blossom, assuming the kicking is improving and it would help if the midfield wasn't wooden spoon caliber.

Get a good midfield and opposition defenses will have nightmares stopping Levi with the ball coming down to him often with good delivery.

The fact he can ruck is a bonus and doesn't mean he can't be a KPP

25 is young for a KPP, that's when they start hitting their straps, aside from freaks like Cameron.

Listen I hate to break it to you but we are not going to get 4 new gun KPPs overnight let alone in 3 years in the ND , some are going to have to come from what we currently have

As I said we have to hope Kreuzer comes on, so no need to reiterate he's had injuries as we are all well aware of this

How about you put forward some suggested paths to improvement instead of merely regurgitating the obvious with a tint of negativity???

Kreuzer stayed at the club when he could have left for more money, he's the sort of character clubs need so Carlton will give him every chance to succeed. Chances are he's up against it but he's only what 25/26 so he's not old yet and so still is a chance

Casboult despite his marking prowess still lacks the talent to match it with the best key defenders.

 

[1981]

Sorry but that's just madness

Touhy is one of the only guys who can kick and that's our biggest problem

And Levi is the best contested mark in the comp

Our problem is we have terrible run and users of the ball outside of stoppages. That's why we got Boek. It was a reach pick.

We need to get as many quality midfielders into the list as we can and quick

And we need more quality KPPS. Levi would be one of the players I would keep. He can Ruck ok and is a great mark who might have turned the corner with his kicking and he's not old

And he won't get you a high pick anyone I reckon so no poit trading him out

He's a commodity that doesn't grow on trees and is about to blossom so it's madness to trade him

 

[1981]

Casboult despite his marking prowess still lacks the talent to match it with the best key defenders.

He's about the blossom , and needs good delivery

Imagine him in a good side, he'd blitz

He's one of the first players we should retain given his skills and age

 

[Cringle]

Oh dear. If we're pinning our hopes on Casboult turning into our KPF than we may as well get used to bottom spot.

Yes he's a contested marking beast. But that's where is ends.

In a team where we have two other KPF he'd be a real weapon.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Oh dear. If we're pinning our hopes on Casboult turning into our KPF than we may as well get used to bottom spot.

Yes he's a contested marking beast. But that's where is ends.

In a team where we have two other KPF he'd be a real weapon.

I'd be happy to trade Cas to Brisbane for their second rounder TBH (love Casblult btw, but I really want us to hoard/stockpile draft picks, I trust SOS' acumen at the national draft implicitly)