List Mgmt. 2015 Trade/Draft/FA - SuperMegaUltraThread

[DickDunn]

Sinclair ain't going anywhere. Has shown his worth and then some this year.

Wouldn't be averse to trading Lycett if we got a REALLY good deal out of it but can't see it happening tbh - he's contracted and we need ruck depth.

 

[Art OF war]

It could also depend on how Lycett feels. Right now he is the 3rd ruckman at a club, probably ensuring he would get maybe 8 to 10 games next year depending on injuries to Nic Nat and Sinclair. Neither Nic Nat or Sinclair are old either, both will be continuing on for some time so Lycett's future in terms of being in the best 22 is uncertain. However, if he went to the Swans he would be a walk up starter in our best 22, and depending on injuries would play almost every game which for some players means a lot.

Ruckmen are a bit like wicket keepers. You only need a certain number of them. A team could have the 3 best wicket keepers in the world but in reality only one of them can play. West Coast have 3 AFL quality best 22 ruckmen but the reality is that at best you can only play 2 of them.

Lycett is contracted for another 2-3 years from memory. Even if he wants out there is a strong chance we still won't trade him like Mitch Brown.

The one caveat to this was if we received a similar player back in return (we were offered numerous draft picks by Saints). However, Cale Hooker didn't want to join the West Coast so the trade fell on its ass.

We have a real reluctance to trade contracted players. We give extended contracts for a reason, because we want to keep them.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Reading through this thread I feel a lot of posters are living in an era of club loyalty and building through the draft. Apparently we shouldn't even entertain the likes of Bennell, Yarran, McCarthy, Redden or Jetta.

Hawthorn are the perfect example of how to sustain success over a long period of time. You gotta make the plays for players who will bolster your side and move on surplus to requirements. When you're at the top, all player values are inflated and vice versa if you're at the bottom.

They grabbed Burgoyne when they got a sniff that he wanted out of Port. Same with Gunstan.
Grabbed Lake because they needed a KP defender and there were whispers he was on the outer at the Bulldogs. Likewise Gibson and Frawley.
Picked up Hale because they needed a ruck and Roos had too many. Ditto McEvoy.

This is a team bringing in best 22 talent - not necessarily A-graders - to sustain their success. They do this despite finishing near the top of the ladder year after year and not having the early picks to trade.

We need to start doing the same. Guys like Hutchings, Selwood, Brown/Schofield etc are at the peak of their worth where 12 months ago you'd have struggled to get anything for them (Schofield and Hutchings in particular).

 

[Godfather32]

I might be naive but do you think T Mitchell would be alright? Sinclair for Jetta/T Mitchell lol or would we be getting toooo much of a bargain there?

I'd think about it for sure, Sydney would want something else back in addition to Sinclair though I'd say. Not sure if Mitchell is too inside though.

 

[87 eagle]

Reading through this thread I feel a lot of posters are living in an era of club loyalty and building through the draft. Apparently we shouldn't even entertain the likes of Bennell, Yarran, McCarthy, Redden or Jetta.

Hawthorn are the perfect example of how to sustain success over a long period of time. You gotta make the plays for players who will bolster your side and move on surplus to requirements. When you're at the top, all player values are inflated and vice versa if you're at the bottom.

They grabbed Burgoyne when they got a sniff that he wanted out of Port. Same with Gunstan.
Grabbed Lake because they needed a KP defender and there were whispers he was on the outer at the Bulldogs. Likewise Gibson and Frawley.
Picked up Hale because they needed a ruck and Roos had too many. Ditto McEvoy.

This is a team bringing in best 22 talent - not necessarily A-graders - to sustain their success. They do this despite finishing near the top of the ladder year after year and not having the early picks to trade.

We need to start doing the same. Guys like Hutchings, Selwood, Brown/Schofield etc are at the peak of their worth where 12 months ago you'd have struggled to get anything for them (Schofield and Hutchings in particular).

Hawthorn bring in talent, and very rarely trade it out. So suggesting "Hutchings, Selwood, Brown/Schofield etc" should be traded because it is what the hawks do is just plain wrong. We need the depth! The modern Hawthorn lost Buddy to FA, and as far as I recall only traded out players like Savage as part of the McEvoy trade to fill a greater need in the ruck.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Reading through this thread I feel a lot of posters are living in an era of club loyalty and building through the draft. Apparently we shouldn't even entertain the likes of Bennell, Yarran, McCarthy, Redden or Jetta.

Hawthorn are the perfect example of how to sustain success over a long period of time. You gotta make the plays for players who will bolster your side and move on surplus to requirements. When you're at the top, all player values are inflated and vice versa if you're at the bottom.

They grabbed Burgoyne when they got a sniff that he wanted out of Port. Same with Gunstan.
Grabbed Lake because they needed a KP defender and there were whispers he was on the outer at the Bulldogs. Likewise Gibson and Frawley.
Picked up Hale because they needed a ruck and Roos had too many. Ditto McEvoy.

This is a team bringing in best 22 talent - not necessarily A-graders - to sustain their success. They do this despite finishing near the top of the ladder year after year and not having the early picks to trade.

We need to start doing the same. Guys like Hutchings, Selwood, Brown/Schofield etc are at the peak of their worth where 12 months ago you'd have struggled to get anything for them (Schofield and Hutchings in particular).

Hawthorn have covered cracks in the KPP department. We need elite midfielders and utilities. Not the same list needs sunshine.

Lake premier defender.

Burgoyne elite premiership utility.

Gunston another KPP. Links to club, a clear raid from Adelaide.

Gibson. Slightly left field role player.

Frawley. Another KPP. A need selection but hasn't yet paid off.

Hale and McEvoy two rucks. Another lot of KPP's.

Hawthorn have gone after a lot of KPP and position players. The only one that is innovative is Gibson and the only high price mid is Burgoyne.

On the flip side we've picked up no KPP's.

And picked up mids, forwards and utilities. All pigeon hold into particular roles under Simpson.

Cripps. Low price, high upside. Was a steal and is still improving.

Wellingham. Overpaid for a low possession accumulator and Simpson fixed this trading error by recognising his production issues and giving him a simpler game to play.

Hill. Was a low buy role player who filled a niche while LeCras was injured and developed enough to cover his weaknesses.

Ellis. Massive low buy in due to extended injury problems.

Hawthorn have traded in KPP's who have important and clearly defined roles.

Trading is all about opportunity cost, you don't trade for no reason and if you can't articulate a cogent argument for X, Y, Z players that stands up to scrutiny then the point of trading is indeed moot.

Jetta is flimsy in big games and plays a limited role with no scope for failure should be not succeed. Big bust potential irrespective of his record at Sydney, he can't play the same role in the same way and be best 22 at West Coast.

Must play this guy as a forward. Too inconstant in pressure situations and doesn't get enough of it to play wing at the elite level. Must have a clear role for him to play as a forward or no trade.

Bennell is a massive risk. Elite talent and lots of utility, but off field... I'd love him if the price is right.

Yarran is contracted and doesn't want to come back to WA. Price won't be right, flaky and has attitude problems. Could be developed, a superior talent to Jetta.

McCarthy is surplus to needs. Not debatable. Contracted and thus likely to be too expensive given our lack of need.

Redden. I'm a big fan of this trade. Capacity to play a number of roles given his size and athleticism. Given the way we play he'd be ideal depth and open to being moved into any role Simpsons needs.






Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnno22]

Hawthorn have covered cracks in the KPP department. We need elite midfielders and utilities. Not the same list needs sunshine.

Lake premier defender.

Burgoyne elite premiership utility.

Gunston another KPP. Links to club, a clear raid from Adelaide.

Gibson. Slightly left field role player.

Frawley. Another KPP. A need selection but hasn't yet paid off.

Hale and McEvoy two rucks. Another lot of KPP's.

Hawthorn have gone after a lot of KPP and position players. The only one that is innovative is Gibson and the only high price mid is Burgoyne.

On the flip side we've picked up no KPP's.

And picked up mids, forwards and utilities. All pigeon hold into particular roles under Simpson.

Cripps. Low price, high upside. Was a steal and is still improving.

Wellingham. Overpaid for a low possession accumulator and Simpson fixed this trading error by recognising his production issues and giving him a simpler game to play.

Hill. Was a low buy role player who filled a niche while LeCras was injured and developed enough to cover his weaknesses.

Ellis. Massive low buy in due to extended injury problems.

Hawthorn have traded in KPP's who have important and clearly defined roles.

Trading is all about opportunity cost, you don't trade for no reason and if you can't articulate a cogent argument for X, Y, Z players that stands up to scrutiny then the point of trading is indeed moot.

Jetta is flimsy in big games and plays a limited role with no scope for failure should be not succeed. Big bust potential irrespective of his record at Sydney, he can't play the same role in the same way and be best 22 at West Coast.

Must play this guy as a forward. Too inconstant in pressure situations and doesn't get enough of it to play wing at the elite level. Must have a clear role for him to play as a forward or no trade.

Bennell is a massive risk. Elite talent and lots of utility, but off field... I'd love him if the price is right.

Yarran is contracted and doesn't want to come back to WA. Price won't be right, flaky and has attitude problems. Could be developed, a superior talent to Jetta.

McCarthy is surplus to needs. Not debatable. Contracted and thus likely to be too expensive given our lack of need.

Redden. I'm a big fan of this trade. Capacity to play a number of roles given his size and athleticism. Given the way we play he'd be ideal depth and open to being moved into any role Simpsons needs.






Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

Very Good Post ER
Hit the nail right on the head.

 

[BS_82]

Because we've got two of the best key forwards already maybe? Why the hell would we target another one in a trade?

Very Good Post ER
Hit the nail right on the head.

Except if there is a season ending injury to JJK, we would be in deep sh..

Get McCarthy because Darling and McIness are not suitable replacements

 

[Godfather32]

Except if there is a season ending injury to JJK, we would be in deep sh..

Get McCarthy because Darling and McIness are not suitable replacements

Really, what happened in 2012?
You can't go getting starting caliber players in case players get injured. I'm not opposed to getting another KPF, but only once we've sorted out our midfield, and I'm opposed to getting McCarthy because of what it would cost us.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Except if there is a season ending injury to JJK, we would be in deep sh..

Get McCarthy because Darling and McIness are not suitable replacements

Can counter this in two ways. Firstly you've ignored our list and secondly you've over estimated the player in question.

McCarthy would cover Kennedy? He's nice under the high ball and ok off the deck but his overall game is at this stage incomplete. He wouldn't play if Kennedy was fit and yet somehow he's worthy of pursuing while contracted? Makes no sense.

You don't and can't cover for a Kennedy or a Judd in the short term. But in our case we'd move McGovern forward (where he was going to play originally in 2015) on account of our KPD depth. - Mackenzie, Brown, Schofield and Barrass...




Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnno22]

Except if there is a season ending injury to JJK, we would be in deep sh..

Get McCarthy because Darling and McIness are not suitable replacements

Like when we had injuries to Brown and Mackenzie this season?

McCarthy is more suited to a third tall role exactly like Darling and McIness. He is only 193 cm not the monster KPP you seem to imply.

When darling first went down it was McGovern that was considered to play in his place and that would certainly be the case if Kennedy missed with injury next season.

We need to looking for a developing tall forward in the draft so we have KPP's coming online in the future and not all competing for one or two spots in the current team.

There is no way we can play Kennedy, Darling, McGovern, Schoefield, Brown, Mackenzie, the two rucks and McCarthy in the one team.

There are other priorities more in line with a sustained reign in the top four.

 

[dajesmac]

Reading through this thread I feel a lot of posters are living in an era of club loyalty and building through the draft. Apparently we shouldn't even entertain the likes of Bennell, Yarran, McCarthy, Redden or Jetta.

Agreed. It's easy to think moves aren't necessary when things are going well. We should be continually trying to improve.

Personally I reckon Redden is a great get for the Selwood compo should he leave. Bennell should be first priority but otherwise Jetta for a second rounder or two.

 

[Sammy J]

Bennell would be sick. Redden solid.

 

[Keys]

Whilst McCarthy is a good player the cost at the trade table would be too high for a player we don't have a pressing need for

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

I know I was advocating trading Sinclair a week or so ago but I'm going to be seriously pissed if we trade him or Lycett for just Jetta

Maybe Patrick changed his name to Jetta?

 

[Prem87]

Hamish Hartlett.

Although unlikely, If he has to be pushed out to make cap room we need to chase him.

Inside beast with a great kick - all class.

 

[Godfather32]

Hamish Hartlett.

Although unlikely, If he has to be pushed out to make cap room we need to chase him.

Inside beast with a great kick - all class.

What gets it done do you reckon?

 

[kane249]

A strong rumour on the Swans board (when I saw strong I mean a Scottish Fremantle fan with a beard in a pub in Perth) told a Swans fan that he heard the Swans were going to get Lycett.

Almost 100% sure that it would be bullshit.

It probably spun from the rumour on the Freo board that we were going to put Lycett up for trade to help them get McCarthy. Why on earth would we help them?

I think the fat Scottish Freo fan sitting in a pub should stick to eating haggis.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Lycett is too good a player to be sitting in the WAFL again. He must be spewing that he's signed on after exploring opportunities elsewhere due to Cox last year, and now he's been leapfrogged by Sinclair.

Bottom line is he plays #1 ruck and #1 ruck only. He'll play minimum games again in 2016 unless Nic gets hurt.

Not a popular opinion, but i wouldn't be against trading him out for the right price. Right now he's a surplus to our needs, and has value. Now that Sinclair has got hit in the head with a coconut or something and learnt to take a grab, he's a perfect candidate for resting ruck/forward to compliment Nic.

 

[Eagle got a win]

Lycett is too good a player to be sitting in the WAFL again. He must be spewing that he's signed on after exploring opportunities elsewhere due to Cox last year, and now he's been leapfrogged by Sinclair.

Bottom line is he plays #1 ruck and #1 ruck only. He'll play minimum games again in 2016 unless Nic gets hurt.

Not a popular opinion, but i wouldn't be against trading him out for the right price. Right now he's a surplus to our needs, and has value. Now that Sinclair has got hit in the head with a coconut or something and learnt to take a grab, he's a perfect candidate for resting ruck/forward to compliment Nic.

Lycett will back fire and bet you he will become an outstanding ruckman, like a top 5 in the comp if he goes. He has a lot of potential and I wouldn't let him go unless something really great comes up. His got a 4 year contract we don't have to do anything.

As for the rumour for Jetta for Lycett well that's just a dumb rumour of people that know F all about our team and worth. There's a lot of posters on other boards here posting that they didn't even know who half our players were in the Prem. We know what his worth and it's a lot lot lot more than Jetta. Jetta isn't even on my list of prioritise. At 27 our second rnd pick would do for him.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Lycett is too good a player to be sitting in the WAFL again. He must be spewing that he's signed on after exploring opportunities elsewhere due to Cox last year, and now he's been leapfrogged by Sinclair.

Bottom line is he plays #1 ruck and #1 ruck only. He'll play minimum games again in 2016 unless Nic gets hurt.

Not a popular opinion, but i wouldn't be against trading him out for the right price. Right now he's a surplus to our needs, and has value. Now that Sinclair has got hit in the head with a coconut or something and learnt to take a grab, he's a perfect candidate for resting ruck/forward to compliment Nic.

I mean I agree, but I think lycett would agree that it's a two way street - his form this year has been poor & has been hampered by injuries. He simply hasn't warranted a place in the side.

I believe we see him as our ruck future & will strongly resist a trade (unless it's especially good). Give a break & another preseason to get his body ready & I can see him breaking the side again next year.

 

[Eagle got a win]

I mean I agree, but I think lycett would agree that it's a two way street - his form this year has been poor & has been hampered by injuries. He simply hasn't warranted a place in the side.

I believe we see him as our ruck future & will strongly resist a trade (unless it's especially good). Give a break & another preseason to get his body ready & I can see him breaking the side again next year.

Excellent point, its not us that are to blame for Lycetts form, he has to earn his spot and he was given first chance ahead of Sinclair at the start of the year but didnt take it. His still young and with another solid pre season he will likely overtake Sinclair. Sinclairs done great this year and is happy playing for us and gets a chance to play in the Grand Final. 3 quality rucks is a great postion strenghth to have.

 

[pantskyle]

Come round one I fully expect Lycett will be in the best 22 after a huge preseason.

 

[BS_82]

Lycett is too good a player to be sitting in the WAFL again. He must be spewing that he's signed on after exploring opportunities elsewhere due to Cox last year, and now he's been leapfrogged by Sinclair.

Bottom line is he plays #1 ruck and #1 ruck only. He'll play minimum games again in 2016 unless Nic gets hurt.

Not a popular opinion, but i wouldn't be against trading him out for the right price. Right now he's a surplus to our needs, and has value. Now that Sinclair has got hit in the head with a coconut or something and learnt to take a grab, he's a perfect candidate for resting ruck/forward to compliment Nic.

We cant trade out everyone who is not best 22, good ruckman are very hard to find and we have only 3 in a 44 man list.

Dont trade.

 

[Godfather32]

We cant trade out everyone who is not best 22, good ruckman are very hard to find and we have only 3 in a 44 man list.

Dont trade.

Of course you can't, but you can maximise the value of players who are excess to need. At some point either Lycett or Sinclair is going to get pissed off that they're stuck in the WAFL. I don't think anyone is advocating for going into next season with only 2 ruckmen, but at the same time can you name one other team in the league that has 3 starting caliber ruckmen?