List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

Whose future picks would you have preferred?

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Trade period
In: 12, F1, F2, F3, 73, Baker, Owies, Graham*
Out: 3, 63, F4, Barrass, Darling

*Free agent

Done deals

  • Jai Culley, Alex Witherden and Coby Burgiel delisted






  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted

 
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Bender_ said:
Do you intentionally bait your mate sharps or is it a subconscious thing?
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I just like to stick my neck out with some seriously rogue opinions. Opinions such as ‘if you get delisted from a bottom three club, and worst midfield in the league, even before they appoint a coach such is the confidence that nobody will want you…you’re not a great footballer’.

I’m wild like that. Live dangerously. Renegade.
 
Monocle said:
On the contrary.

Hawks need to get the trade over the line, for several reasons:

They did the smart arse thing blowing the trade period up, would be a pointless exercise should they not land TB, not a good look in the Industry going forward, getting caught playing silly buggers.

  • Hawks gave TB the commitment that they could get the trade done, not a good look coming up short, for other player thinking about a similar move. Hawthorn might be a club to avoid.

  • Player Managers will have taken note, if you commit to a player and they don't do the deal - Red Flag for the future, as managers will be reluctant to advise their clients, to consider Hawks advances.

  • Now this is not insignificant: Paul Conners who happens to own and operate one of the biggest AFL player management business, who manage TB. Conners phoned Hawthorn and gave them an absolute spray, for their little stunt Friday afternoon trading pick 14. Told them if they phone him up about trading one of his players from another Club in the future he will just hang up the phone and not return their calls.


Fair to say the onus in on the Poo's and Wee's to get this trade done to restore some semblance of credibility to their name as trading partners, both with other Clubs, Players and Player Managers.

We are in the driving seat with this one, we want get rogered over this trade, worst case TB is an Eagle in 2025.
TB will know that we were not the ones who blew up the trade.
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Player manager power is certainly as strong as it has ever been. Interestingly, Barrass is directly managed by Nick Gieschen (part of the Connors team). Same as Harley.
 

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Monocle said:
  • Now this is not insignificant: Paul Conners who happens to own and operate one of the biggest AFL player management business, who manage TB. Conners phoned Hawthorn and gave them an absolute spray, for their little stunt Friday afternoon trading pick 14. Told them if they phone him up about trading one of his players from another Club in the future he will just hang up the phone and not return their calls.
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This right here is the best point in our favour, but its also shit that this is a thing.

I just hope Clarke knows this and sticks to the 2x firsts
 
Obeanie1 said:
Was a rumor that Cripps may retire early. And 2025 would likely be his last season.

Owies brings the running and work rate needed for that HHF role and it takes years for the kids to build that endurance.

Total stop gap but kind of understandable.

Owies wasnt why we did this deal.
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I’m trying to understand what changed from Sunday when we rejected Carlton’s offer though. Because Owies is the only additional part of that trade
 
Obeanie1 said:
If the club is planning to trade for Warner next year we should bring it forward.

100% right thing to do.

Bank the Barrass future oicks and use those to trade.

It would be the best way to utilise a top 5 pick if we are trading it anyway.
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Let me get this straight. We trade our own F1 to Richmond for picks 10 and 18 this year but keep Haw F1 and Carlton F1 (highly unlikely to get both anyway) to trade for Warner this tme next year. So in 2025 we get Warner but we have no R1, no R2 and no R3 left to draft anybody. Isn't this correct?
 
Bleedblueandgold said:
The biggest tragedy from all this is that our 2024 draft hand is absolutely putrid.
We only have 12, 26 & 73. Plus Baker & Owies.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but we could have had 3, 26, 33*, 63 & 68. Plus Baker.
No idea who if pick 33 was ever on the table though.
It sickens me that we have only 2 usable picks, plus a late pick to perhaps match a bid on Champion.
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We better have at least 3 more picks with blokes getting to flick


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Ishmael_ said:
I can't stop thinking about how two of our primary trading partners this period, Richmond and Hawthorn, completely screwed up their rebuilds by trading in established players and out of drafts.

You could not have two more instructive examples, and at least they had the excuse of misunderstanding where they were at.

This is a club that has gone 17th, 18th, 16th. You could not possibly be confused of where we are at.
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Yet Hawthorn are now good again, and here’s how the top 10 in their best and fairest were acquired:

1. Jai Newcombe - pick 2, mid-season draft
2. Dylan Moore - pick 67, national draft
3. Jarman Impey - acquired for late 2nd and 3rd round picks
4. James Worpel - pick 45, national draft
5. Blake Hardwick - pick 44, national draft
6. Connor MacDonald - pick 26, national draft
7. Karl Amon - unrestricted free agent
8. Jack Scrimshaw - acquired with a 4th round pick for a 3rd round pick
9. Jack Ginnivan - basically acquired for moving up a few spots in the 2nd round and moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick
10. Massimo D’ambrosio - acquired for Essendon moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick


So look at that list. Only one premium pick (Scrimshaw), and he was very heavily devalued by the time Gold Coast traded him. Otherwise it’s a stack of mid-season and rookie draftees and late round picks, and astute trades.

Point being that hoarding high draft picks is far from the only way to build a good side up from the ashes.
 
Coasters7 said:
I’m trying to understand what changed from Sunday when we rejected Carlton’s offer though. Because Owies is the only additional part of that trade
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Sounds like we just wanted to get Baker out of the way to we could put the pressure back on the Hawks for Barrass.
If we get 2x f1s from the Hawks, itll not be an awful result

3+Barrass for 12+Baker+Owies+2x f1s isnt bad at all
 
sey666 said:
Let me get this straight. We trade our own F1 to Richmond for picks 10 and 18 this year but keep Haw F1 and Carlton F1 (highly unlikely to get both anyway) to trade for Warner this tme next year. So in 2025 we get Warner but we have no R1, no R2 and no R3 left to draft anybody. Isn't this correct?
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Thats what id be doing.

Reid and Warner headline our midfield.
10+12+18 and our 2nd round picks round out the list
 
Monocle said:
On the contrary.

Hawks need to get the trade over the line, for several reasons:

They did the smart arse thing blowing the trade period up, would be a pointless exercise should they not land TB, not a good look in the Industry going forward, getting caught playing silly buggers.

  • Hawks gave TB the commitment that they could get the trade done, not a good look coming up short, for other player thinking about a similar move. Hawthorn might be a club to avoid.

  • Player Managers will have taken note, if you commit to a player and they don't do the deal - Red Flag for the future, as managers will be reluctant to advise their clients, to consider Hawks advances.

  • Now this is not insignificant: Paul Conners who happens to own and operate one of the biggest AFL player management business, who manage TB. Conners phoned Hawthorn and gave them an absolute spray, for their little stunt Friday afternoon trading pick 14. Told them if they phone him up about trading one of his players from another Club in the future he will just hang up the phone and not return their calls.


Fair to say the onus in on the Poo's and Wee's to get this trade done to restore some semblance of credibility to their name as trading partners, both with other Clubs, Players and Player Managers.

We are in the driving seat with this one, we want get rogered over this trade, worst case TB is an Eagle in 2025.
TB will know that we were not the ones who blew up the trade.

My guess is that we trade TB to Hawthorn for a F1 & F2, deal goes down 20 minutes before the bell rings.
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I'd prefer it to be two F1s or F off, but today showed we don't have that level of spine, so you're probably right.

Which F1 would we prefer though? Blues or Hawks? I'm tempted for Hawks, as I suspect they're highly likely to drink their own bathwater. It would be a delicious twist in this tale of it ended up as a top 4 pick next year.
 
Patterz123 said:
Play hard ball with the Hawks, 2 x F1's or no trade... we now have nothing to lose.

It's all future picks anyway. TB is under contract and this exact trade scenario can be re-visted in 12 months time.

Out: 3 and TB
In: 12, F1, F1, Baker and Owies

Would not be as terrible, as we initially thought.
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Really needs to be both firsts and the second at this point.

They traded 14 (which we already rejected) for F1 and F2 so those both need to be included automatically. From there they need to haggle over whether it’s an F1 or F2 coming our way on top.
 

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stallon said:
Sounds like we just wanted to get Baker out of the way to we could put the pressure back on the Hawks for Barrass.
If we get 2x f1s from the Hawks, itll not be an awful result

3+Barrass for 12+Baker+Owies+2x f1s isnt bad at all
Click to expand...

It isn't bad, but it effectively sets us back a year. However, perhaps that won't be so bad after we've acquired the 3 mature players to help us improve - even if only slightly. We get an extra year of development into our young players supported by mature bodies then enter the 2025 dtaft with a either a very good haul, or a chance to land Warner and another first round pick.
 
WCEswift said:
Why arent the mods ****ing off these hawks fans
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wirra44 said:
Mods just as weak as our list manager and recruiting team😉
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My last post in this thread was at 8.24 this morning - post #13,761

As I type this we’re at #15,196 and likely another 10+ posts before I finish this one

That’s 1,435 in a little over 12 hours - roughly 2 posts a minute. It’s been unrelenting

I’ve read every one of those posts and in between work and other things it’s taken me until now to catch up. For most of the day I’ve been 15-20 pages behind. Step away from the thread for half an hour and I’m 5 pages further behind

So by the time I read an oppo supporters post it’s buried 15 pages back from the most recent post and so far back in the dust trail it’s irrelevant. Besides none of the posts have been as damning on our club as what our own supporters have posted

Maybe I’ve missed one or two posts that should’ve been actioned but tbh after reading 1,000+ posts mostly dumping on the club, often justified, I’ve tended to glaze over some of them. It’s been downright depressing

Forgive me then for not ****ing off a few slightly annoying hawks fans. Especially when not a single post has been reported to highlight anything problematic
 
Keys said:
My last post in this thread was at 8.24 this morning - post #13,761

As I type this we’re at #15,196 and likely another 10+ posts before I finish this one

That’s 1,435 in a little over 12 hours - roughly 2 posts a minute. It’s been unrelenting

I’ve read every one of those posts and in between work and other things it’s taken me until now to catch up. For most of the day I’ve been 15-20 pages behind. Step away from the thread for half an hour and I’m 5 pages further behind

So by the time I read an oppo supporters post it’s buried 15 pages back from the most recent post and so far back in the dust trail it’s irrelevant. Besides none of the posts have been as damning on our club as what our own supporters have posted

Maybe I’ve missed one or two posts that should’ve been actioned but tbh after reading 1,000+ posts mostly dumping on the club, often justified, I’ve tended to glaze over some of them. It’s been downright depressing

Forgive me then for not ****ing off a few slightly annoying hawks fans. Especially when not a single post has been reported to highlight anything problematic
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im almost certain there has to be some sort of handshale with richmond like our F1 and carlton or hawks f1 for like 6 and 14 or something
 
Corkintheocean said:
Let's see how good he looks not playing alongside Curnow & Mackay.

My bet is those 33 goals become 19 next year.
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It will have nothing to do with that, a fit Allen and if Waterman continues his 2024 form will provide plenty of opportunities for the ball to come to ground. The difference will be supply from the midfield.
So you probably are correct that he doesn’t hit the scoreboard like he has recently at the blues but it won’t be to do with which key forwards he has around him.
 
Coasters7 said:
Looking to get back into the top 10 after just trading one out is a bold move.

Usually you make these sorts of arrangements before you trade out your most valuable asset otherwise you get f*cked over on both fronts.

Very worried about the meaning behind that comment based on what we’ve seen today. That could be our F1 for one of the Saints picks. At which point we may as well offer Harley up and get his replacement in the door this year because we’d be well and truly fu*ked
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It's actually scary now what pyke will do to try and save face. If he tries to trade out our future 1st to get back into the top 10, we may as well just give up. His pride has taken a hit today as he's used to having his ass kissed, but his ego may make him fight back - and that is truly scary for us all. I just hope this trade period ends with no more damage.
 
stallon said:
Sounds like we just wanted to get Baker out of the way to we could put the pressure back on the Hawks for Barrass.
If we get 2x f1s from the Hawks, itll not be an awful result

3+Barrass for 12+Baker+Owies+2x f1s isnt bad at all
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I take your point, but this forgets the two picks in the 60s which just didn’t need to be involved.

I can see if we flip Barrass for two first this trade period becomes tolerable, but only if we don’t hand a F2 back in that trade to the hawks.

3+63+68+F3+TB
For
12+72+F1+F1+Owies+Baker

That’s not terrible, but it ain’t great. I shake my head as I write this. If Smillie or TT drop to 12 it’ll be a miracle and hats of to the list management team for dumb lucking their way to a trade win.
 
Ilkka Sinisalo said:
Yet Hawthorn are now good again, and here’s how the top 10 in their best and fairest were acquired:

1. Jai Newcombe - pick 2, mid-season draft
2. Dylan Moore - pick 67, national draft
3. Jarman Impey - acquired for late 2nd and 3rd round picks
4. James Worpel - pick 45, national draft
5. Blake Hardwick - pick 44, national draft
6. Connor MacDonald - pick 26, national draft
7. Karl Amon - unrestricted free agent
8. Jack Scrimshaw - acquired with a 4th round pick for a 3rd round pick
9. Jack Ginnivan - basically acquired for moving up a few spots in the 2nd round and moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick
10. Massimo D’ambrosio - acquired for Essendon moving up from a 4th round to a 3rd round pick


So look at that list. Only one premium pick (Scrimshaw), and he was very heavily devalued by the time Gold Coast traded him. Otherwise it’s a stack of mid-season and rookie draftees and late round picks, and astute trades.

Point being that hoarding high draft picks is far from the only way to build a good side up from the ashes.
Click to expand...

Hawks still a long way off being a premiership side and don’t see them taking the next step (i.e top 4) with Battle.

Way too early to be hanging our hat on their model.
 
Bender_ said:
It isn't bad, but it effectively sets us back a year. However, perhaps that won't be so bad after we've acquired the 3 mature players to help us improve - even if only slightly. We get an extra year of development into our young players supported by mature bodies then enter the 2025 dtaft with a either a very good haul, or a chance to land Warner and another first round pick.
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Competition for spots and not having to play 4 genuine WAFL players each week will help for sure.
Its really only a win if we actually get Warner though, otherwise we are relying on teens picks to find A-graders which isnt reliable as we well know
 
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