List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[gringo2011]

Dude, get thicker skin. Because your mates see your sweet spot doesn't mean our club are useless. We didn't **** anything up. We did a deal to complete our spine, and let's at least wait until Jake's played a few games for us before judging the trade because we sought him for his ability and size in two key positions, not his clean living and intelligence.

Your mates are laughing but if your Hawks mate's brilliant coach had had his way, Carlisle would be his problem, not ours. Would you be telling him that only the Hawks could mess it up like that, like they did with Daniel Pearce or whoever it was, like they did with Travis Tuck? No, because Saints Stuff Ups is an outdated cliché that your loser pals are still clinging to - just like The Collywobbles - to try and gain some banter advantage. They probably still go on about the Saints disco too cos they know they can get a rise out of you. If you can't see the club has transformed itself into a professional outfit full of promising players and coaches and you are still letting other clubs supporters tell you how shit we are, then that's not the clubs fault, because they could be the most pro club in the AFL and we'll still have our history. Let em laugh, the deluded fools. Worst thing to do is buy their easy narratives.

Where the hell are Bulldogs and Tigers? Rebuild after rebuild and still nowhere near a gf even. Lets see if the bulldogs can actually win a semifinal at their most powerful without us stopping them. As for the tigers, they can have 70000 members and still do nothing. We all know that narrative, it's a lot sadder than ours. Imagine what we could have achieved with their finances. Who the hell are either of them to laugh at us?

EDIT: Merde alors, that's the second time I've responded to a post only to see pages and pages of similar responses afterwards. Sorry for repeating and coming late to the party. Poor old Gringo mate its gonna be OK. Believe!

I'm alright, just impatient. Anyway it's alright for you -hidden away from Melbourne where your friends drop by with baguettes and bordeaux for breakfast and talk about the price of frogs legs. We are at the coal face here in Melbourne where you talk footy and don't get to see footy. It's a pressure cooker man.

 

[gringo2011]

Since I'm playing catch up, a couple of responses come to mind:

Firstly in answer to those of us here and on SS who claim that there is a so-called 'Ra-ra club" of supporters who are overly optimistic and cheer every decision as a strategic masterstroke, as a member of this group let me counter that we wouldn't feel the need to be spin rainbows if there wasn't an element of doomsayers amongst the St Kilda forum participants who latch on any slightly iffy decision to voice their fears that we are a cracked unit with no hope and no future. Some people are masocists and like to flagellate themselves and the club with our past sins, but that ain't my bag, baby.

Secondly, for the people claiming that the club should have investigated the social networking footprint of one Jake Carlisle before embarking on what seems now to have been a risky trade, from what I have read on this forum about the Snapchat app, this approach woldnt have changed anything as Jake's vids were deleted off the internet as soon as they were viewed. Jake's cunning plan would have stayed a dirty little secret had he had more trustworthy and less scummy vindictive friends. So unless due diligence now involves requesting archival footage from social media company servers based on a wild hunch, I fail to see how they could have done more.

I don't really care about his drug hoovering, I just wanted to pay less for him. I think we mismanaged coming out and being overly keen to show how we could lure talent then let Essendon bully us into paying more than we wanted. Collingwood do the opposite and bluff Brisbane out of their last ounce of dignity then move the goal posts further away just for masochistic fun. I want to be like them.

 

[gringo2011]

Anyways......

Every year the phantom drafts read like everyone in the top 30 is a genuine 200gamer gun. But every year there's 3-5 spuds in the top 10 and 10-20 in the top 30.

So who are the highly-rated "undraftables" people wouldn't touch whether they had pick 1, 5, 14 or 20?

Curnow and Oliver for me. Just can't buy into the hype. Curnow is all "potential", tall mid reminds me of Jarrad grant.
Morrish medal is almost a predictor in the wrong way...

Only because the Morrish seems to be an award for guys under 5 feet tall

 

[Sir Skid]

Gee, that Curnow news is interesting. You'd have to think he'll slide for sure now, as it's so close to the draft and that might mean he doesn't go before our pick (and there's no way we get him after the recent Carlisle saga), so that's something we could have done without. It's like taking one more out of the available pool.

Well it's likely he'll get past the injectors now.
They wouldn't want to bring anyone in with a low moral compass. ... oh wait!

 

[Cornish]

I'm even warming to the idea of Ben McKay, as Buckenara had us taking in his mock in today's HUN.

Ben has been compared to???? wait for it???? Jake Carlisle.
I had this kid down for an early 3rd rounder, seems hes firming.

In McKay's breakout game against the Oakleigh Chargers in round 13, he played like Jake Carlisle. He marked everything that came his way (including five contested marks in the wet) and was dominant in the air. Like the new Saint, he can also shift forward when called upon and both carry the nickname 'Buckets' for their marking prowess.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

Apologies for the long post.

Have been quiet on the Carlisle situation until now, but I can't help myself anymore. My take:
-Been here 2 seconds and is already been massively overrated by the supporter group. Bloke has played SFA good footy yet is already been talked about like he is an elite player. Consistency is the absolute key to being elite at any sport. Without it you are just an also ran. Glimpses of brilliance are nice but will not improve the side significantly.
-Can't believe how quick everybody was to say "Oh, he has made a mistake but will learn from it now, all is forgiven". This is off the back of ensuring we payed absolute top dollar because he refused to make a definitive statement "I will not be playing for Hawthorn". Let's not forget he also would only come to us over other clubs if he was paid substantially more. He then repays us by stuffing up before the contract is even signed on the dotted line, and then flat out lying to us about what happened!!!!!!! Excuse me if some of us are not rushing to welcome this tool to the club. It is going to take me a bit longer to come around then seeing him do a session on the ropes and a few back slaps. Personally, I don't think he cares that much about footy. Thought it before he came to us, still think it.
-Absolutely gobsmacked that people are treating the WADA issue like it doesn't even exist. The situation is no longer in the AFL's control, anything could happen from here.

The recruitment team has reached god like status on this forum and absolutely nothing can be debated or discussed without been torn to shreds. Sure we have had a couple of strong draft years but we have also been one of the worst sides in the comp over the last 3 years ensuring they have had plenty of bites at the cherry. We won 6.5 games last year, many of our good players are still 30+. A lot of trades are unproven thus far. Personally, I am not afraid to say that the Carlisle trade was a really poor decision from a risk/return perspective. There are many good key back options in this draft, Collins & B.Mackay to name a couple.

I am all for taking a risk at some point, for example I wanted to take a punt on Bennell (before it was clear he wouldn't play in Melbourne). The difference with any potential Bennell trade is it would have cost substantially less from a pick perspective as well as a much less financially. The third kicker is he is a far better player than Carlisle. Now call me crazy, but that is a far better risk/return trade than Carlisle yet not many wanted to touch it. Now that Carlisle comes out and does the same thing Bennell did, it was just a "one off mistake", yet the same posters were happy to pot Bennell and label him a headcase a couple of months ago, with the photo of him doing coke the only evidence. Some crazy crazy logic on this forum sometimes.

Not trying to have a go at Ghost here, because I greatly respect what he brings to the forum, but if the comments about needing to get a deal done to not piss off future players are correct, then I now have significant concerns about our ability to negotiate at the trade table. We will consistently get reamed during trade week if that is our approach, it simply screams of panic. You set the price you want to pay, you set the absolute max price you will pay, and you negotiate between this range. Saying you have to get the deal done no matter what, is crazy talk. I completely disagreed that future players would not want to come to us because we wouldn't cough up pick 5 for a bloke with an attitude problem wanting a massive contract, with reported off-field problems. Ironically, if anything bringing this knob to the club has made us look less desirable as a destination.

There is no doubt in my mind at all that we lost our heads a little bit in this trade period. We were feeling the pressure, and we caved. I don't think that in isolation is such a terrible thing, the recruiters have enough form not to be dragged over the coals for it. However, I don't think people need to be so touchy about the fact the Carlisle trade has high bust potential and not everybody agrees with it. I don't just mean bigfooty posters either, it is a fact that many clubs didn't want to go near him.

Cue, rabid response about Carlisles awesomeness.......

great post. disagree with some of your points but agree with others...

you will be howled down though

 

[WolfLikeMe]

You are spot on with this post and the one above (about Harry McKay), ARR. The best talks are likely to be gone at our pick, with Carlton and Adelaide interested in McKay and Melbourne and Essendon keen on key forwards, but you take the best asset with a first round pick when rebuilding, and McKay is a very valuable piece. We won't be able to take him, but the talk that we wouldn't take a tall 'because we have them' is not the way to go about it.

agree with this 200%. great post and absolutely bang on

 

[Nutsngum]

Well im convinced! Carlisle is a COMPLETE SPUD and the club needs to be disbanded for the entire fiasco they have brought upon themselves! I believe this because MODERATE VIEWS ARE OUTLAWED AS OF NOW.

Sorry, no discussion or rebuttal please, my tender soul just cant take being disagreed with.

 

[King_Steele]

Well im convinced! Carlisle is a COMPLETE SPUD and the club needs to be disbanded for the entire fiasco they have brought upon themselves! I believe this because MODERATE VIEWS ARE OUTLAWED AS OF NOW.

Sorry, no discussion or rebuttal please, my tender soul just cant take being disagreed with.

You will pay for your sins!!!

 

[Highlander35]

Dunkley nominated for the Swans. Given that he's rated above Rice, that's good news for us, means 68 is likely to slide further forward, 45 probably not so much.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Well im convinced! Carlisle is a COMPLETE SPUD and the club needs to be disbanded for the entire fiasco they have brought upon themselves! I believe this because MODERATE VIEWS ARE OUTLAWED AS OF NOW.

Sorry, no discussion or rebuttal please, my tender soul just cant take being disagreed with.

Well that Jake bake may just take the cake.

It’s more than I can take.

Why rake over stuff, some of which is fake?

Wake up!

Or better still; go jump in the lake

 

[gringo2011]

Well that Jake bake may just take the cake.

It’s more than I can take.

Why rake over stuff, some of which is fake?

Wake up!

Or better still; go jump in the lake

Dr Seussman?

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Wouldn't touch Balic if he was there at 200...

Someone will hunt you down for that comment Uncle.

 

[Joffaboy]

Dr Seussman?

Green eggs and coke?

 

[Joffaboy]

you will be howled down though

Oh my victim much???????

 

[Stewart66]

Disagree. Pies only third last for mine.

Last option - Injectors
2nd last option - Carlton cap cheats

Dislike those too , but two words. Joffa Corfe. My god the Filth for me

 

[Axcellence]

Charlie Curnow arrested for refusing a breath test and not displaying P plates.

Draft plunge to pick 14?

 

[WolfLikeMe]

Oh my victim much???????

what.are.you.on.about.

go back to your lawn mate

 

[aussierulesrules]

Charlie Curnow arrested for refusing a breath test and not displaying P plates.

Draft plunge to pick 14?

No way in hell will we pick him up after that!

 

[Feerits Elf]

No way in hell will we pick him up after that!

Why not?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Why not?

Because we've already been in damage control after the Carlisle drama and we sure won't want any more. It's been said that we wouldn't have traded for Jake had we known about the Snapchat video and for the same sort of reasons I don't see us being interested in Curnow, now that we know this just before the draft.

 

[Joffaboy]

what.are.you.on.about.

go back to your lawn mate

Less sense than usual.

You are whining about being howled down.

You are working on a victim meme.

Pretty simple to understand. Obviously not for you.

 

[Joffaboy]

Because we've already been in damage control after the Carlisle drama and we sure won't want any more. It's been said that we wouldn't have traded for Jake had we known about the Snapchat video and for the same sort of reasons I don't see us being interested in Curnow, now that we know this just before the draft.

Do we really want him anyway? Thought mids were the priotity

 

[Feerits Elf]

Because we've already been in damage control after the Carlisle drama and we sure won't want any more. It's been said that we wouldn't have traded for Jake had we known about the Snapchat video and for the same sort of reasons I don't see us being interested in Curnow, now that we know this just before the draft.

Well our reputation is shot, so let's go for it

I don't want good bloke GOPs, I want premiership-winning arseholes

 

[Tommy Wigs]

SEn keeps saying they have whispers and have put calls to St Kilda but no answer. No idea what this is or if true. They are making a bit of it without alluding to the issue.