List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[CursingFijian]

I think the Saints definitely need a player like Steven at this point in its development. Someone with speed who is confident enough in his abilities to take the game on. Armitage and Montagna are the only other two still in the team who are capable of providing that consistent run through the middle. So while we should be trying to secure his signature I wouldn't pay overs for him though. After the Frawley for pick 3 fiasco if the Saints finish lowly you would think that scenario is duplicated.

 

[Stewart66]

If we can get Tucker and Weitering...

FB: Weitering - Delaney - Webster
HB: Newnes - Goddard - McKenzie
C: Acres - Armitage - Tucker
HF: Billings - White - Templeton
FF: Lonie - McCartin - Membrey
R: Hickey - Dunstan - Steven
I/C: Geary - Wright - Bruce/Longer/Lee - + whoever I missed. Sloane? Capt.

Dominate the 2020s

 

[Defacto]

Steven has played 80 of a possible 88 games in the last 4 years and he's somehow considered injury prone?

sssshhhh dont let the truth get in the way of this forum

 

[BrianSpeaking]

I'd do backflips if Jack leaves, especially if we get pick 1 and then pick 2. We won't be down the bottom after this draft so we need to make every post a winner, there are two future brown low medalists IHO who will be available to us.
Dream of this: Pick 1 Darcy Tucker Pick 2 Darcy Parish or Weitering. In two years we find our FF, CHF and CHB for the next 10 years. Pick20: Another gun top 20 pick. Insane 3 years of drafting, as good as anything the GC or GWS did.

 

[Kilroy]

I'd do backflips if Jack leaves, especially if we get pick 1 and then pick 2. We won't be down the bottom after this draft so we need to make every post a winner, there are two future brown low medalists IHO who will be available to us.

Perhaps it's better if he stays then.
Hate to see you fall on your head celebrating a moment of ecstasy.

 

[gringo2011]

I'd do backflips if Jack leaves, especially if we get pick 1 and then pick 2. We won't be down the bottom after this draft so we need to make every post a winner, there are two future brown low medalists IHO who will be available to us.
Dream of this: Pick 1 Darcy Tucker Pick 2 Darcy Parish or Weitering. In two years we find our FF, CHF and CHB for the next 10 years. Pick20: Another gun top 20 pick. Insane 3 years of drafting, as good as anything the GC or GWS did.

Sometimes for marketing and stability you need to stick with your quality players rather than a constant cycle of getting rid of quality to get promising kids. What if we win too many games and get pick 5 and 6 because some idiot thought we wouldn't sign him on a good pay packet and got cute in what we could get out of the deal.

The AFL will probably stop the top 2 picks going to the last team in FA deals just as we decide to let Steven go.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If he was keen to leave I reckon we'd match any offers until it got to the point where we were sure that we would get a top 5 pick as compo and I doubt immensely that the AFL would change the rules on us at the last minute, especially since he is arguably well worth a top 5 pick on the open market anyway. I think they'll look at it this year and realise that there are no "James Frawley's" and be happy to leave it as is for the time being. The last thing they will want is for a really low team like us to lose someone of Steven's quality and not get anywhere near enough as compo.

 

[Periphery]

If he was keen to leave I reckon we'd match any offers until it got to the point where we were sure that we would get a top 5 pick as compo and I doubt immensely that the AFL would change the rules on us at the last minute, especially since he is arguably well worth a top 5 pick on the open market anyway. I think they'll look at it this year and realise that there are no "James Frawley's" and be happy to leave it as is for the time being. The last thing they will want is for a really low team like us to lose someone of Steven's quality and not get anywhere near enough as compo.

Steven leaving us without us getting decent compensation would create a fairly uncomfortable situation for the AFL. They are already struggling to convince people that FA isn't just benefiting the more successful teams and there is only so long they can trot out the "we need more time to see how it goes" line.

If Steven does go I'll be disappointed because I rate him a lot higher than some on here appear to, but at the same time a pick after our first will be reasonable compensation for him. I'd see it as a even value but high risk trade, but one that could really benefit our long term prospects at a cost to our short term.

I wonder what the chances are of us getting a priority pick are? Probably pretty low, but if we come last again this year I think we'd have a reasonable case for one. The AFL shot down the Dees request but there are some mitigating circumstances with them (the tanking fiasco and the sheer amount of high draft picks they'd already had) that don't apply to us. On top of that, there are the connections between Finnis and the AFL and any extra vested interest they have because of our financial situation. If Steven goes and we get pick 2 we wont be getting a first round PP, but maybe the AFL would be comfortable giving us an end of first. Picks 1,2,20,21 sounds pretty sweet to me.

 

[Air King]

Priority pick + Steven combo. Vic Country* trio

1. Mathieson
2. Parish
3. Tucker

 

[12Chill]

Priority pick + Steven combo

1. Mathieson
2. Parish
3. Tucker

No chance we get a compo and a PP. Steven's compo will act as the PP ala Frawley.

 

[Air King]

I can't see it happening either. I think we get the priority pick if we finished last. Keep Steven and we are laughing

 

[Periphery]

No chance we get a compo and a PP. Steven's compo will act as the PP ala Frawley.

There's no chance we get a band 1 PP if we get band 1 FA compo, but I'm not convinced we couldn't get a band 2 (end of first) PP. Not saying the chances of it happening are high, just that I don't think it's impossible.

 

[Defacto]

I'd do backflips if Jack leaves, especially if we get pick 1 and then pick 2. We won't be down the bottom after this draft so we need to make every post a winner, there are two future brown low medalists IHO who will be available to us.
Dream of this: Pick 1 Darcy Tucker Pick 2 Darcy Parish or Weitering. In two years we find our FF, CHF and CHB for the next 10 years. Pick20: Another gun top 20 pick. Insane 3 years of drafting, as good as anything the GC or GWS did.

i'm one who wont mind either way. if jack decides to leave, then good luck to him. i dont want a player who doesnt want to be part of the special thing we are building at the moment. this club will be absolutely radiating in 2-3 years time. sucks to be him if he chooses to pass on that. and like you said the talent will be too good to ignore

if he stays then great! we have another midfielder to build around

i cant see us losing on this

 

[Defacto]

There's no chance we get a band 1 PP if we get band 1 FA compo, but I'm not convinced we couldn't get a band 2 (end of first) PP. Not saying the chances of it happening are high, just that I don't think it's impossible.

somethings tells me the AFL will be more likely to hand out an end of first rounder PP than a start of first rounder...i think the days of an early first rounder are gone IMO

 

[felsty]

Priority pick + Steven combo. Vic Metro trio

1. Mathieson
2. Parish
3. Tucker

They are all Vic Country too, not Vic Metro

 

[L_W_P]

Tucker is #1 and the best.

Elite outside midfielder.
Known to McCartin and Goddard.
Supporter of the club.

If we only get one pick, he is the one I want at this point.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My big doubt about Matt Finnis is the way he wanted "free agency" to benefit ALL players.
What it has done in benefiting the top few players to the detriment of all other average players was entirely predictable. Next they will be tinkering with single player caps to stop big stars using it all up.

Having said that I think it will settle down as some of the clubs signing players in huge long contracts get stung with injuries or poor form and stop offering buddy type deals.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I think the fascinating thing about FA, is that it's revealing what none of us expected: that money isn't everything.

The idea was that bottom teams would have more money than top teams, because top teams would have great players taking up all their cap. That's true, but there was a "therefore" from there: therefore, FA players will choose the big financial offers that bottom teams would have available. In fact, FA players have rejected much larger offers from bottom teams, to join top teams, in the hope of winning a premiership.

The AFL never expected that these players would choose glory over a big pay cheque. It'd make me have a renewed hope for the game, if it wasn't so detrimental to our own chances. But, if FA had been around in 2008 onwards, I reckon that Lyon would have exploited it for all its worth - we would have got a better version of Lovett via FA and never needed to swap pick 16 for him. 2009 premiership, here we come.

 

[CursingFijian]

I think the AFL will continue to aspire for greater equalization and implement its own version of the NFL 'final four' and 'final eight' laws. According to those laws, which were introduced in 2010, the top four clubs could only sign a free agent if they lost a free agent, while franchises ranked fifth to eighth were restricted in how much they could spend on free agents.

The competition as it stands now is bloody hard to win though. It's a lot more than having the best list on paper. I don't think there is a free agent yet who has won a medallion, and I think Frawley is more likely to miss out than win one. While Persey, is spot on when he says it is more than just the money, I think money is still the knife that prises the oyster loose, and then other factors determine which catch bag he ends up in. Not every oyster offers up a pearl though.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

My big doubt about Matt Finnis is the way he wanted "free agency" to benefit ALL players.
What it has done in benefiting the top few players to the detriment of all other average players was entirely predictable. Next they will be tinkering with single player caps to stop big stars using it all up.

Having said that I think it will settle down as some of the clubs signing players in huge long contracts get stung with injuries or poor form and stop offering buddy type deals.

Didnt FA benefit the struggling club just last season when melbourne got pick 3 for frawley.. IMO the AFL wont scrap the compo because it actually does help with equilisation. If they removed the FA compo pick then the struggling clubs would suffer even more... the AFL cant afford to have clubs stay at the bottom for long periods.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

What the afl could do is change the compensation criteria.. have the board treat every case individually. Which is sort of what they do now anyway I think.
1. how long has departing club been down the bottom / the state of their list.
2. What the player is worth draft pick wise

When we lost Goddard we had an ageing list finished just outside the 8 and were heading south down the ladder.. the afl shouldnt of just looked at ladder position.. why couldnt they give us say pick 3 - 7 or something that would make more sense.. frawleys not worth pick 3 but melbourne deserved a high pick because they need it. Does that make sense.. a team shouldnt go 50 years with out a premiership.. spend 10-15 years in the bottom half.. the afl should be more active with compensations

 

[joop]

What the afl could do is change the compensation criteria.. have the board treat every case individually. Which is sort of what they do now anyway I think.
1. how long has departing club been down the bottom / the state of their list.
2. What the player is worth draft pick wise

When we lost Goddard we had an ageing list finished just outside the 8 and were heading south down the ladder.. the afl shouldnt of just looked at ladder position.. why couldnt they give us say pick 3 - 7 or something that would make more sense.. frawleys not worth pick 3 but melbourne deserved a high pick because they need it. Does that make sense.. a team shouldnt go 50 years with out a premiership.. spend 10-15 years in the bottom half.. the afl should be more active with compensations

Or clubs should just be better at list management. The afl shouldn't be responsible for helping clubs because they don't know how to win a flag.

 

[CursingFijian]

Didnt FA benefit the struggling club just last season when melbourne got pick 3 for frawley.. IMO the AFL wont scrap the compo because it actually does help with equilisation. If they removed the FA compo pick then the struggling clubs would suffer even more... the AFL cant afford to have clubs stay at the bottom for long periods.

Yes it did provide some long term benefit to Melbourne (who still have to outlay the funds to develop the kid). The bigger issue is that it has immediately benefitted the two time reigning premier by delivering them a proven player. The last thing the AFL wants is for clubs like the Saints and Melbourne to become feeder teams to the rest, or even the perception of that to happen. In order to move up the list though top teams like Hawthorn and Sydney must be exposed to forces that decay their list, like FA trading restrictions on top of late draft picks.

I hate to say it but I think Eddie Maguire is dead set on the money when he arks up about Sydney and their academy, likening it to having 600 father sons to choose from. Heeney is just the tip of the iceberg. Every potential Lenny Hayes is being spotted early and moved into the Swans academy so that come draft time they can claim exclusive rights to them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think the fascinating thing about FA, is that it's revealing what none of us expected: that money isn't everything.

The idea was that bottom teams would have more money than top teams, because top teams would have great players taking up all their cap. That's true, but there was a "therefore" from there: therefore, FA players will choose the big financial offers that bottom teams would have available. In fact, FA players have rejected much larger offers from bottom teams, to join top teams, in the hope of winning a premiership.

The AFL never expected that these players would choose glory over a big pay cheque. It'd make me have a renewed hope for the game, if it wasn't so detrimental to our own chances. But, if FA had been around in 2008 onwards, I reckon that Lyon would have exploited it for all its worth - we would have got a better version of Lovett via FA and never needed to swap pick 16 for him. 2009 premiership, here we come.

There aren't many who have chosen glory over a pay check. They are asking themselves "why can't we have both"?

 

[Sunshine Saint]

There aren't many who have chosen glory over a pay check. They are asking themselves "why can't we have both"?

Actually think its the opposite, players do stay for loyalty, friends, tradition etc most often than take offers from other clubs. Look through our recent Top 25 Saints players list and don't you think that every one of them would have received many offers from other clubs with far higher salary than they were getting at St Kilda.

Looking through our recently successful teams, all of our senior players would have received offers from other clubs. With exception of Ball, who left not for money, but for issues with the coach, the only big name players who have left, we have traded away.

Sure players do want more dollars, but what employee doesn't. But players like staff members stay for many more reasons than money. The huge positive is that the club is working to make the club the most attractive place for players in all possible areas. It will be these 101 other things that keeps our list together.