2015 Wooden Spoon Predictions

[ManOfClay]

No, it's going to get better for the Saints

You don't think that before things get better they'll experience tougher times?

Look at their best and fairest. Four of the top 5 are all either approaching retirement or already gone. The older players at the Saints still shoulder a lot of the workload and despite the promise of the kids there is still going to be a bit of a lag

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Mick is one of the all time legends in coaching, 3 premierships, regular finals strategist. Mile stone year so respect been earn't through his success with numerous

His the kind of man we need moving forward, his done it soo many times. Roos no offense always had a boring game style at Swans and has one now at Demons but it is effective and team based defensive game style which will benefit demons in the long run but still boring

Regarding Jeffy, will be missed but had behaviour and attitudial issues and no doubt will bring it to his next club, I still think will do well and wish him all the best but blew all his life lines at Carlton FC

I wouldn't call Malthouse a 'legend' of coaching it has taken him 30 seasons to accumulate 3 premierships. Not only that Carlton have latched onto him past his prime

 

[gillo94]

I wouldn't call Malthouse a 'legend' of coaching it has taken him 30 seasons to accumulate 3 premierships. Not only that Carlton have latched onto him past his prime

Of course his a legend of coaching
I'm sure Pies supporters and Eagles supporters would agree

If he wasn't then wouldn't be reaching his milestone game in R5, true?

 

[Adam H]

You don't think that before things get better they'll experience tougher times?

Look at their best and fairest. Four of the top 5 are all either approaching retirement or already gone. The older players at the Saints still shoulder a lot of the workload and despite the promise of the kids there is still going to be a bit of a lag

Big advantage keeping who we wanted to though. A full season and a pre season out of Fisher Gilbert Geary Hickey Lee Bruce Wright Sipposs Roberton Dempster and Webster will help.

 

[Jim Dixon]

You don't think that before things get better they'll experience tougher times?

Look at their best and fairest. Four of the top 5 are all either approaching retirement or already gone. The older players at the Saints still shoulder a lot of the workload and despite the promise of the kids there is still going to be a bit of a lag

Tougher then 2014? They had a pretty horrendous year- Hawthorn smashed them by 145 points. 2 wins out of their last 20 games. How's things going to get 'tougher' for St. Kilda?

 

[aussierulesrules]

Tougher then 2014? They had a pretty horrendous year- Hawthorn smashed them by 145 points. 2 wins out of their last 20 games. How's things going to get 'tougher' for St. Kilda?

Yeah I think it's a pretty fair bet that we hit rock bottom last year and that it would take a similar year injuries-wise for us to get worse this year. We have 26 on our list who are going into their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th seasons at an AFL club now and we'd be expecting just about all of them to improve this year and half our list seems to be doing PB's in the time trials (even the likes of Fisher and Montagna), so it's pretty clear that we're going to be a lot fitter this year than we have been of late (I realise that most teams will be fitter due to the "Burgess/Port factor", but the difference the extra training makes will probably be noticed more in the younger teams than the older ones, who are already relatively seasoned).

We've also had another preseason of getting used to the vastly different way Richo wants us to play compared to Watters and that is also apparently reflected in our training, with the younger ones in particular apparently starting to really get a hang of what he wants them to do.

We may still finish bottom, as I definitely expect Melbourne and GWS to improve this year, but I'd certainly be hoping we'll have a better run with injury and be much more competitive overall than we were in the last 3/4 of last season. I see no reason at all why we couldn't play more like we were in the first 6 rounds of last year if we have a good run with injury than we played in the last 16 rounds. The injury thing is a big "if" though, given our last couple of years.

The only one of substantial note that we've lost is Hayes (Gwilt and Jones we let go because we knew we could immediately cover for them and Stanley is relatively replaceable immediately), but on the flip-side we've regained Saad, who could give us a much needed injection of spark and goalkicking into our forward line, brought in a relatively ready-to-go Tim Membrey, who can definitely play footy and almost certainly would have played more at Sydney had he not had Franklin, Tippett, Goodes and Reid in front of him, a very fast, super-fit and skillful Dan McKenzie, who is fit enough to play from the get-go and we would be hoping from much more this year from the group that had their seasons badly impacted by injury last year, in Steven, Fisher, Montagna, Gilbert, Armitage, Hickey, Roberton, Geary, Schneider, Dunstan, Webster, Lee, Templeton, Wright and Acres.

 

[Kram]

St Kilda to collect their 28th spoon, fighting off Carlton and Collingwood.

 

[ManOfClay]

Tougher then 2014? They had a pretty horrendous year- Hawthorn smashed them by 145 points. 2 wins out of their last 20 games. How's things going to get 'tougher' for St. Kilda?

We'll find out once guys like Reiwoldt aren't the superstars they used to be.

 

[Adam H]

We'll find out once guys like Reiwoldt aren't the superstars they used to be.

Yeah struggled to AA CHF and VC.

 

[van peebles]

18 th/Essendon
17th/ St Kilda
16th/Adelaide
15th/Geelong.

 

[Falchoon]

This is true, as evidenced by the club's respective best and fairests last year

Look at their best and fairest. Four of the top 5 are all either approaching retirement or already gone.

I'm not sure this line of argument is a solid as you seem to think it is, the Saints B&F sees players marked out of 10 each game and is therefore weighted to those who played more games.
ie 5*5 (Delaney) > 3*8 (Armitage)

8 players played more than 17 games last year, those 8 players came 6th, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 4th, & 2nd with go figure Rhys Stanley and Farren Ray not landing a top 10 spot. Being replaced in the top 10 by the likes of Armitage & Steven.

 

[WCErevival]

I wouldn't call Malthouse a 'legend' of coaching it has taken him 30 seasons to accumulate 3 premierships. Not only that Carlton have latched onto him past his prime

Agree he is past his prime but in 30 years he has only missed the finals around 6 times which is decent. 7 GFs. Took Collingwood from 15th to a GF in 2 years. Definite quality even if he is past it now.

 

[Falchoon]

We'll find out once guys like Reiwoldt aren't the superstars they used to be.

There aren't "guys like Riewoldt", it explains why Chris "let's give him the B&F to convince him to stay" Grant was your last reasonable tall forward, outside of St Kilda discards.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Yeah, wouldn't have anything to do with the cantankerous old fool coaching your club who refused to play him out of pure stubborness?

I note he still averaged more than one goal a game in the 9 games he did play.

Whilst he averaged over a goal a game early in the season in the AFL, he kicked 7.7 from 12 games in the VFL.

But lets not focus on the stats, because sometimes they can be misleading. Attending many Northern Blues games accross the season, it was obvious that Jeffy was a shadow of his former self and had lost the respect of his team mates. He shirked contests, didnt chase hard, and just didnt seem to care - far from the midseason AA form he had the year prior (article link below). It was known that he was having some personal issues off-field, so he was given the benefit of the doubt for some time.

Garlett wasnt dropped for stubborness - it was terrible form. Ellard wasnt having a great season, but still was averaging better in the AFL, than Jeffy was at VFL level.....and Ellard wasnt ducking his head.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-19/midseason-all-australian-team

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Of course his a legend of coaching
I'm sure Pies supporters and Eagles supporters would agree

If he wasn't then wouldn't be reaching his milestone game in R5, true?

He's a good coach. Legend coaches fall into the Jock Mchale (sp?) and Norm Smith class. Then you have Matthews, Yabby Jeans and Barrassi below that possibly with Sheedy as well.

Then Malthouse would be below that again.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Agree he is past his prime but in 30 years he has only missed the finals around 6 times which is decent. 7 GFs. Took Collingwood from 15th to a GF in 2 years. Definite quality even if he is past it now.

Never said he wasn't quality, but legend coach is a very much overvaluing his standing in the game.

 

[H2F]

Bottom 4
Collingwood
GWS
St Kilda
Footscray

Top 4
Budney
Port
Fyfemantle
Hawks

 

[slashin_velvet]

He's a good coach. Legend coaches fall into the Jock Mchale (sp?) and Norm Smith class. Then you have Matthews, Yabby Jeans and Barrassi below that possibly with Sheedy as well.

Then Malthouse would be below that again.

Sheedy coached essendon for 27 years - ill exclude his time at GWS for fairness.

In that time he won 4 flags from 7 GFs, however missed finals 8 times - they're basically on par for mine.

 

[gillo94]

He's a good coach. Legend coaches fall into the Jock Mchale (sp?) and Norm Smith class. Then you have Matthews, Yabby Jeans and Barrassi below that possibly with Sheedy as well.

Then Malthouse would be below that again.

If he was no good, wouldn't have lasted as long as he has

 

[Forward Press]

He's a good coach. Legend coaches fall into the Jock Mchale (sp?) and Norm Smith class. Then you have Matthews, Yabby Jeans and Barrassi below that possibly with Sheedy as well.

Then Malthouse would be below that again.

I don't see how a three time premiership coach who will break the games record is on the third tier of coaches in AFL history.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

If he was no good, wouldn't have lasted as long as he has

You go and quote me where I said he was no good...

He's just not a legend coach like you said he was.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I don't see how a three time premiership coach who will break the games record is on the third tier of coaches in AFL history.

You're quite possibly right I was not alive for his days at Footscray and too young for Wce. He's probably on par with Sheedy but all I'm really arguing is he isn't a legend coach as stated. You can argue about where the others stand but for mine Malthouse is definitely below those I'd regard as the legendary coaches of McHale, Smith.

 

[gillo94]

You go and quote me where I said he was no good...

He's just not a legend coach like you said he was.

I apologise, you did not say that

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I Spose everyone can make what they wish regarding Mick and his achievements come R5, 2015

 

[Forward Press]

You're quite possibly right I was not alive for his days at Footscray and too young for Wce. He's probably on par with Sheedy but all I'm really arguing is he isn't a legend coach as stated. You can argue about where the others stand but for mine Malthouse is definitely below those I'd regard as the legendary coaches of McHale, Smith.

Then you definitely weren't alive for Jeans, McHale, Barassi etc, so I'm not sure why you're using them as part of your judgment. If you're going by pure statistical comparisons like premierships he'd be behind a few coaches, sure, but his longevity and success in the modern era with West Coast and Collingwood has to put him into the conversation. In my opinion, of course.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Then you definitely weren't alive for Jeans, McHale, Barassi etc, so I'm not sure why you're using them as part of your judgment. If you're going by pure statistical comparisons like premierships he'd be behind a few coaches, sure, but his longevity and success in the modern era with West Coast and Collingwood has to put him into the conversation. In my opinion, of course.

If you go purely on premierships, he's well down the order - but a topic about legendary coaches must extend far further than their win/loss ratio and number of flags.

I would suggest that in 20 years time - Malthouse will be spoken about as a legendary coach - purely for his longevity - and by holding the games record, he will continue to be spoken about for a very long time.

I would think you would call him a legend of the modern era - in the same way some would think of Sheedy and Matthews - (who were both more successful in terms of premierships).