gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
Tough question, no real way to answer. Old saying sometimes you need to go backwards to go forward.
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2015 Wooden Spoon Predictions
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Tough question, no real way to answer. Old saying sometimes you need to go backwards to go forward.
Periphery
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- Jul 25, 2013
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ARR mentioned the CD points as part of a collection of stats to show that he can still play at a decent level. Some of those stats might not be relevant to other types of key defenders, but Fisher has been a consistently high scorer of CD points across his career so they are relevant in assessing any possible decline in his performance.
For a player like Glass then CD points are not really worth considering but we aren't talking about Glass.
gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
No need to rag on the kids is their? Just have to wait til season starts and monitor progression
pure demon
Team Captain
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Huh? I didnt rag on any kids, in fact i praised three
gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
WTF? I mentioned his champion data points once, in one line, how is that "rabbiting on" about them? The rest was just mentioning individual aspects of his game that the AFL prospectus said he was still performing at an elite level at.
If you look at the post I was quoting and aren't just here to pick a random fight for whatever reason, I gave all those stats and so-on to support my view, not reflect it and to give some statistical proof that he still "had it" and that it wasn't just "supporters saying he still had it", with no evidence to back it up.
These are the aspects of his game that have made him as good as he has been over the journey and it looks like he's still doing them very well indeed, which supports the view of the "supporters who say he still has it".
He also doesn't have to play as a "key defender", as he is probably at his best and most damaging when playing as a rebounding wall on a HBF, on someone that's not much chop and who he can just run off all game long- to go and help others, take intercept marks, or set up our attacking plays- and who he can destroy in a contest if it happens to go to them in a 1-on-1.
Of course he did, I know how good Darren Glass is and never questioned it. You were the one who brought him up out of the clear blue sky though and started comparing him to Fisher, so I just showed how different their stats were to support my view that they were completely different types and that you weren't really comparing apples to apples and as such it was a pretty irrelevant argument, even if Glass had something to do with the topic of who would finish bottom this year.
Forward Press
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I've clearly stated my argument and it will be pointless to repeat it again. I didn't intend to cause a multi-quote circular argument, I just wanted to debate your use of Champion Data measurements for a key defender.
Apologies. Not going to comment any more on it.
Apologies. Not going to comment any more on it.
Strapping Young Lad
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Blues depth is unknown. You're hopeful.
**** me, Carlton are 2nd favourites? People genuinely think teams like Melbourne, Dogs and Brisbane will finish ahead of us?
We haven't had Garlett at his best for years now, he is a one-dimensional full forward that had off-field issues and always had a problem with work ethic. He will benefit from a fresh start but I doubt Melbourne are banking on him to become a star.
Waite? Meh, was good when on, but was injured and suspended far too often. It's like when Fev left after he kicked 80+ goals, people actually thought we would kick 80 less goals. We found other avenues to goal and actually made the 8 that year.
We have a very healthy list and will boast a midfield of Kreuzer, Gibbs, Murphy and Judd come round 1, as well as players like Thomas, Simpson, Walker and Menzel capable of running through there. Doesn't sound like a bottom 4 midfield at all.
Our back line is also looking steady with Jamison, Rowe and White usually beating their opponents most weeks. Touhy, Buckley and Simpson aren't bad rebounding players either.
Forward line is looking shallow. Jones might do ok but he might not, Casboult will do well holding down a spot but he simply needs to learn how to kick. Henderson will take the number 1 forward and be capable of kicking 2-3 week. Menzel, Walker and the rest of our resting mids will be more than capable of playing the small forward roles.
People who say we have 0 youth haven't actually looked at our list. We're not setting the world on fire but the foundations are there.
Anyway, St Kilda to finish bottom but a smoky to be GWS or Brisbane.
We haven't had Garlett at his best for years now, he is a one-dimensional full forward that had off-field issues and always had a problem with work ethic. He will benefit from a fresh start but I doubt Melbourne are banking on him to become a star.
Waite? Meh, was good when on, but was injured and suspended far too often. It's like when Fev left after he kicked 80+ goals, people actually thought we would kick 80 less goals. We found other avenues to goal and actually made the 8 that year.
We have a very healthy list and will boast a midfield of Kreuzer, Gibbs, Murphy and Judd come round 1, as well as players like Thomas, Simpson, Walker and Menzel capable of running through there. Doesn't sound like a bottom 4 midfield at all.
Our back line is also looking steady with Jamison, Rowe and White usually beating their opponents most weeks. Touhy, Buckley and Simpson aren't bad rebounding players either.
Forward line is looking shallow. Jones might do ok but he might not, Casboult will do well holding down a spot but he simply needs to learn how to kick. Henderson will take the number 1 forward and be capable of kicking 2-3 week. Menzel, Walker and the rest of our resting mids will be more than capable of playing the small forward roles.
People who say we have 0 youth haven't actually looked at our list. We're not setting the world on fire but the foundations are there.
Anyway, St Kilda to finish bottom but a smoky to be GWS or Brisbane.
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Don't worry, we'll know when they're coming...
You have one of the worst youth in the comp. Saints would be a fraction behind Carlton
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Brisbane should finish ahead of Carlton. We boast an excellent midfield and our defense conceded the second least amount of goals during the second half of the year, but due to our age profile and developing list were still prone to the odd blow out. Our tall forwards are still developing but they'll be getting top notch delivery from our midfield and as long as they can provide a big body to bring the ball down our mozzie squad can keep the scoreboard ticking over.
We play Carlton twice next season, both of which I'm confident Brisbane can win.
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Yeah but atm they dont know if they're coming or going.
Desi Van_83
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You're definitely a glass half full person. If blues aren't bottom 4 (which I think they will be), they will be bottom 5.
None of which are reasons for carlton to go backwards, besides waite of course. All other factors you listed influenced our 2014 season and we were closer to the 8 then a spoon then.
Comment completely made out of ignorance, do you go and watch 18 vfl/sanfl/wafl/neafl clubs play each week to see this youth? No I didn't think so just using your rose tinted view on your own youth hoping everyone else's is worse.
If Carlton's isn't the "worst" in the comp, then who's is?
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North's?
The issue is people can't see where the improvement will come from. On the other hand they can see where all of the other teams will improve.
Colonial
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The only 2 teams I cant see any improvement in are Carlton and StKilda, and I think more of the Saints than the Blues sooooo.
The Saints are playing a lot more kids though who will naturally improve.
I thought about North when I was wondering about this recently and I guess it depends on when you consider "youth" ends, but if you went by the currently 23yo and younger group, North have Ziebell, Cunnington, McDonald, Atley, Brown, Mullett, Bastinac, Jacobs, Turner, Macmillan, Dumont, Durdin, Wood, Garner, Vickers-Willis, Daw, etc and that's a pretty solid and largely proven group right there, who are all currently under 24yo (or at least were as of the start of the year- I went with all those born in 1991 or later), so they have a lot of good young talent that you would bank on going forward. They apparently haven't traded their 1st or 2nd picks in any of the last 7 drafts, so with that being the case you would expect they would have a pretty useful group there.
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Blinder
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Right now North have 10 players on the list who are currently 23 or younger and who have played at least 20 AFL games (McDonald, Mckenzie, Harper, Jacobs, Mullett, MacMillen, Atley, Cunnington, Bastinac, Ziebell). Four of these guys have played 80+ games.
By contrast Carlton have 5 (Bell, Docherty, Menzel, Tutt, Jones). After 66-gamer Liam Jones, no-one else has played even 30 AFL games.
IMO North are in MUCH better shape in terms of their young core.
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