2016 Brisbane Lions starting line up

[dlanod]

Andrews did his best work when he didn't have to hold a dangerous forward. Gardiner was good but was still a few years short on physical development last year to play to his full potential. I'd take Merrett on the big guys every week before those two.

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[POBT]

I've got concerns about a Merrett and Clarke defensive combination. I think they have similar strengths and, more importantly, similar weaknesses. Neither makes good decisions with ball in hand. Neither wins the ball back all that often. Neither can kick with all that much precision. In modern footy, can you get by with two "spoilers" as your key defensive talls? I'm not sure. Ideally, one of your two KPDs either takes intercept marks or can act as a playmaker coming out of defence. Perhaps Merrett (or even Clarke) can adjust his game to take more marks down back but they are never going to be like a Rance or Taylor and give you an attacking option.

Having said that, I'm not all that comfortable with Andrews playing on a genuine key forward just yet. Even with natural improvement, he's probably better suited to a looser role. So, from his perspective, it probably works out better to have 2 genuine tall defenders to do the heavy lifting. However, you really want your 3rd tall being able to play an attacking role. Andrews gives you the intercept capability but his disposal and decision making need work.

A little while ago, there was comment on this board to the effect that we'd start with Merrett, Clarke and Andrews and see what happens. Unless something changes in the preseason, I suspect that's probably right. But that combination doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of team balance and their ability to play the attacking role required of modern defenders. I see it as less than ideal.

 

[SizeMatters]

Andrews disposal from what I saw last season is quite good he only made a few blunders but agree that his decision making needs some work. He chooses the safer options which is fine but sometimes he had an option 40m up the ground that would have opened the opposition up on the rebound but instead decided to take the safer 20m pass to the boundary instead. Same can go for Clarke his disposal is sound but needs to be a bit more proactive instead of just the mark, stop wait 5 seconds and then kick it sideways. On Merrett I'd rather he just go for the safer option.

 

[WA Lion]

I've got concerns about a Merrett and Clarke defensive combination. I think they have similar strengths and, more importantly, similar weaknesses. Neither makes good decisions with ball in hand. Neither wins the ball back all that often. Neither can kick with all that much precision. In modern footy, can you get by with two "spoilers" as your key defensive talls? I'm not sure. Ideally, one of your two KPDs either takes intercept marks or can act as a playmaker coming out of defence. Perhaps Merrett (or even Clarke) can adjust his game to take more marks down back but they are never going to be like a Rance or Taylor and give you an attacking option.

Having said that, I'm not all that comfortable with Andrews playing on a genuine key forward just yet. Even with natural improvement, he's probably better suited to a looser role. So, from his perspective, it probably works out better to have 2 genuine tall defenders to do the heavy lifting. However, you really want your 3rd tall being able to play an attacking role. Andrews gives you the intercept capability but his disposal and decision making need work.

A little while ago, there was comment on this board to the effect that we'd start with Merrett, Clarke and Andrews and see what happens. Unless something changes in the preseason, I suspect that's probably right. But that combination doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of team balance and their ability to play the attacking role required of modern defenders. I see it as less than ideal.

I think you touch on some interesting points. In particular you mention Rance as giving you an attacking option, but remember it was only 2 years ago that he was considered a clanger king. It is too late in his career for Merrett to change, but Clarke is still relatively young and raw coming from his country background. It isn't inconceivable that he might develop an attacking side, although I do think it is unlikely.

I definitely agree that Andrews is not yet entirely ready to go 1 on 1 with a genuine key forward. Next year I think is more likely. I would have to disagree though with your comments RE Andrews disposal. The games I watched last year he showed what I thought were good skills for a gangly first year key back!

 

[WA Lion]

Andrews disposal from what I saw last season is quite good he only made a few blunders but agree that his decision making needs some work. He chooses the safer options which is fine but sometimes he had an option 40m up the ground that would have opened the opposition up on the rebound but instead decided to take the safer 20m pass to the boundary instead. Same can go for Clarke his disposal is sound but needs to be a bit more proactive instead of just the mark, stop wait 5 seconds and then kick it sideways. On Merrett I'd rather he just go for the safer option.

Agreed - I have never lost that feeling of impending doom when big Rog has ball in hand!

 

[POBT]

Next year I think is more likely. I would have to disagree though with your comments RE Andrews disposal. The games I watched last year he showed what I thought were good skills for a gangly first year key back!

I agree with your assessment of his skills given his height and inexperience but the issue is more that, if he's playing a role as the third tall, we really need his foot skills to be above average and not just good for his height. He's definitely got better mechanics than most defenders of his size but he's probably playing a role of a smaller, third tall type and so we need his skills to be at that level and not that of a ruck sized defender.

Often though it is decision making which causes his disposal to look shaky.

 

[WA Lion]

I agree with your assessment of his skills given his height and inexperience but the issue is more that, if he's playing a role as the third tall, we really need his foot skills to be above average and not just good for his height. He's definitely got better mechanics than most defenders of his size but he's probably playing a role of a smaller, third tall type and so we need his skills to be at that level and not that of a ruck sized defender.

Often though it is decision making which causes his disposal to look shaky.

Fair point, and I dare say it is difficult to back yourself as a first year to take on difficult aggressive kicks in a team that is struggling badly, and prone to turnovers. If the team is up and going and full of confidence it becomes that much easier to be aggressive and direct rather than take the safe option. Same comment could potentially be applied to Clarke also I guess

 

[acuguy]

My point of view is really based on wanting Gardiner, Andrews and Clarke to play each week. I am not as concerned about Andrews playing on bigger opponents, I think he needs this challenge next year and if he gets touched up then so be it, great learning.

I also would prefer to use Merrett as our second ruck option and almost cannon fodder and allow Walker and co to really focus on their forward line work. This is just my opinion, I also agree that we will start with Merrett down back, I just prefer him up forward for team balance.

 

[acuguy]

Just on Claye Beams, I am backing our boys to win more of the footy and I want Beams playing Wing and forward of the ball, I think between Paparone, Robertson and C.Beams there are 2 positions available, can't see all 3 playing. I have Beams and Robertson ahead of Paparone atm.

 

[POBT]

A Merrett, Walker and Freeman/Schache forward line is very tall and not great defensively or when the ball hits the deck. That would be my concern with Sauce going into the forward line.

At this stage, I've got McStay as a third tall but it is on the proviso that he shows a bit more dedication to the movement and defensive side of things.

 

[Len S]

I guess my issue with "Bastinac is training the house down" is that we knew he was a good runner when we got him. But we haven't really seen him in a game context yet - not even an intraclub.

I absolutely believe he'll be in the side for round 1. But I'd love for that to be on the back of a really solid game or two either in intraclub matches or against other clubs.

I don't think we should turn a blind eye to his performances in the last two years. We know there was a positional excuse there but I'm always reluctant to buy into the "just change his role and he'll be right" line of thinking as I believe it takes away from the player's obligation to perform a role for the team, irrespective of his personal views on playing that role. Until Bastinac shows on field improvement, I don't think we should completely ignore the last two years form.

The next issue we have is around the right composition of players in the midfield. We have a clearly defined top three - Rockliff, Beams and Hanley. I think we should assume those three will spend a lot of time in the midfield, until we get evidence to the contrary. So that is three spots in the midfield rotations sewn up. We've been told Rich will play midfield, so there's four. Robinson won a B&F spending a lot of time in the midfield - 5. Christensen has been training with the midfielders and has recent form on his side -6. Zorko has played plenty of midfield minutes in recent years - 7.

I'm not suggesting Bastinac is behind every single on of those guys. But he's just about the only one who would appear
to have limited flexibility about the role he can play. For all the talk about having lots of players who can rotate through the midfield, the key is that enough of them have positional flexibility. Hawthorn have a big midfield cohort but just about all can be thrown on a wing, up forward or behind the footy. Again, I'm not suggesting this will not necessarily cost Bastinac a senior spot but it is a question we don't know the answer to just yet.

Then there's competition for spots. I've seen people say "well, who is going to take his spot?". To which my response would be - "hopefully, any player who wants to play midfield in 2016 and has a better preseason." This gets back to "earning your spot". If a Ryan Lester pops up and dominates the preseason games as a big bodied inside mid, you would think it would be Bastinac put under pressure. And, as we said above, As a new player and coming off two ordinary years, Bastinac hasn't yet got the runs on the board like a Rockliff or Beams.

Basically, I think there are a few different questions we need answered about Bastinac. I personally believe that we'll get the answers in the coming couple of months and that he'll get the nod for round 1. But that's not a matter of fact and asserting it as such completely ignores the few legitimate questions about Bastinac's form and the broader composition of the side.

Though
work mate . A guy who hasn't influenced events for two seasons is suddenly a walk up start on the basis of plausible excuses, such as he was out of position!

 

[Len S]

Though
work mate . A guy who hasn't influenced events for two seasons is suddenly a walk up start on the basis of plausible excuses, such as he was out of position!

Sorry. ...reads, thoughtful work mate. ...big bashitis!

 

[a mayes ing]

I've got concerns about a Merrett and Clarke defensive combination. I think they have similar strengths and, more importantly, similar weaknesses. Neither makes good decisions with ball in hand. Neither wins the ball back all that often. Neither can kick with all that much precision. In modern footy, can you get by with two "spoilers" as your key defensive talls? I'm not sure. Ideally, one of your two KPDs either takes intercept marks or can act as a playmaker coming out of defence. Perhaps Merrett (or even Clarke) can adjust his game to take more marks down back but they are never going to be like a Rance or Taylor and give you an attacking option.

Having said that, I'm not all that comfortable with Andrews playing on a genuine key forward just yet. Even with natural improvement, he's probably better suited to a looser role. So, from his perspective, it probably works out better to have 2 genuine tall defenders to do the heavy lifting. However, you really want your 3rd tall being able to play an attacking role. Andrews gives you the intercept capability but his disposal and decision making need work.

A little while ago, there was comment on this board to the effect that we'd start with Merrett, Clarke and Andrews and see what happens. Unless something changes in the preseason, I suspect that's probably right. But that combination doesn't fill me with confidence in terms of team balance and their ability to play the attacking role required of modern defenders. I see it as less than ideal.

I am surprised by that. I see Clarke taking the Rance route in the future. Clarke did improve his attacking option this year by trying to go for a run and rebound out of the def 50. Definitly improved this year.

Also think Andrews has pretty decent disposal. Most times i have seen him kick, he has disposed of it neatly, probably neater than quite a few of our other players.

 

[Nunez]

Watching our game vs. Collingwood in 2010 - it's amazing how much our list has changed. Back then Rocky was showing some amazing signs (and honestly out played most players). Boy, was it great seeing Brown and Fev kick bags. I can't wait to see how our current talls develop, if we ever get a show quite as good as Brown/Fev then I'll be a happy man!

 

[SizeMatters]

Early days I know but it seems as though Hipwood will be played as a forward from what GOD was said so far. We are really going to have a very tall forward line in 5-6 years time...

Hipwood Freeman Green
Mayes Schache McStay

I've got Hipwood down as the forward-ruck which is not out of the question if his body can hold up. Each tall has something different to offer as well. Freeman the stay at home power foward, Schache will probably be the traditional CHF role that gets his 2-3 goals a game and sets up another 3-4 and Hipwood the athletic forward/ruck. Main concern will be defensive pressure with all of the forward line lacking in that department. Hopefully with our smaller forward line rotations that will address this. McGrath, Bundy, Zorko, Taylor, Robbo, Bell, etc will hopefully provide a bit of pressure.

 

[WA Lion]

Early days I know but it seems as though Hipwood will be played as a forward from what GOD was said so far. We are really going to have a very tall forward line in 5-6 years time...

Hipwood Freeman Green
Mayes Schache McStay

I've got Hipwood down as the forward-ruck which is not out of the question if his body can hold up. Each tall has something different to offer as well. Freeman the stay at home power foward, Schache will probably be the traditional CHF role that gets his 2-3 goals a game and sets up another 3-4 and Hipwood the athletic forward/ruck. Main concern will be defensive pressure with all of the forward line lacking in that department. Hopefully with our smaller forward line rotations that will address this. McGrath, Bundy, Zorko, Taylor, Robbo, Bell, etc will hopefully provide a bit of pressure.

Others may disagree but I have McStay down as a backman long-term.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Others may disagree but I have McStay down as a backman long-term.

agree, Down back with the occasional hit up front when needed

 

[SizeMatters]

Others may disagree but I have McStay down as a backman long-term.

Yeah I prefer him down back as well he just looks more natural down there.

 

[Panthera]

Just on Claye Beams, I am backing our boys to win more of the footy and I want Beams playing Wing and forward of the ball, I think between Paparone, Robertson and C.Beams there are 2 positions available, can't see all 3 playing. I have Beams and Robertson ahead of Paparone atm.

With his ability to play almost any position on the field, coupled with his improvement last season and running ability; pencil me in for Marco playing 22 games (barring injury) in 2016.

 

[POBT]

If McStay can make it as a forward, he would be an incredible point of difference for us. I think we need to find out for certain whether he can thrive in the forward line.

Having said that, it may be that a season or two down back might be what his development needs. He has some poor habits as a footballer and the discipline and "team first" orientation of a defensive group might fix those.

I think he is probably better suited to defence at this point in his career. But I think it would be a lost opportunity for us not to try and make him into a forward because that combination of high marking, movement and goal sense is pretty intoxicating.

 

[SizeMatters]

McStay playing forward will take away some defensive pressure... it's a robbing Peter to pay Paul. If he wants to be the lead up forward (IMO he won't be a key as he will be behind Freeman, Schache and potentially one of Walker and Hipwood) he will need to work hard on his defensive pressure and ground work. I'd rather have a rotating mid to play the 4th forward role.

This is of course if we play 2 keys and a resting forward, I just can't fit McStay in the forward line... the forward line I posted above definitely lacked defensive pressure, but probably had the most scoring power. Good times ahead to have these problems.

 

[AFLQLD]

I think Clarke's improvement with the ball in hand has been underestimated by some. He still has a long way to go but I think he can play that role of turning defence into attack effectively. It takes quite some time for naturally defensive players to bring that side of their game out and then make it effective.

Merrett and Clarke do share many of the same attributes and weaknesses but I think Clarke will eventually be the better, more well rounded player, much as I like Rog's contribution over the years.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Briefly flicking through this year's prospectus one thing Clarke will have to work on is his one-on-one contesting. Clarke had the third worst loss rate of the league's top 50 players for contests defended. In comparison Merrett had the fifth best. Perhaps shows how important Merrett is currently to our structure down back. In general the ability of our defenders to win one-on-one contests wasn't great statistically (Merrett was about the only Lion who was better than average in that statistic) which probably isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

 

[Fatcat08]

Briefly flicking through this year's prospectus one thing Clarke will have to work on is his one-on-one contesting. Clarke had the third worst loss rate of the league's top 50 players for contests defended. In comparison Merrett had the fifth best. Perhaps shows how important Merrett is currently to our structure down back. In general the ability of our defenders to win one-on-one contests wasn't great statistically (Merrett was about the only Lion who was better than average in that statistic) which probably isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

You big fantasy footy nerd you!

 

[POBT]

Briefly flicking through this year's prospectus one thing Clarke will have to work on is his one-on-one contesting. Clarke had the third worst loss rate of the league's top 50 players for contests defended. In comparison Merrett had the fifth best. Perhaps shows how important Merrett is currently to our structure down back. In general the ability of our defenders to win one-on-one contests wasn't great statistically (Merrett was about the only Lion who was better than average in that statistic) which probably isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

Be interested to see how they calculate that. Does it purely relate to one on one contests or is it considered a win if a teammate comes over as the third man up and helps kill the contest.

It does probably solidify that, some weeks, Clarke has been asked to a job beyond his current capacity. Going to a Hawkins or Cloke is probably good for his development but he was simply not ready to beat that size/calibre of forward on a regular basis.