List Mgmt. 2016 Draft - It was on last Friday.

[RockJobster0312]

Yeah playing two games in the Richmond Vfl is a matter of life and death

He would of still plays football next year - for bloody Richmond not collingwood

Recruiters look at players 3 years out. I can guarantee you that recruiters didn't say to themselves who the hell is the Kirby kid on the back of 2 VFL games. You can't 'hide' anyone anymore.

Playing him may have exposed him more. But by not playing him no one would have known if he could play at that level.

 

[baphomet]

Recruiters look at players 3 years out. I can guarantee you that recruiters didn't say to themselves who the hell is the Kirby kid on the back of 2 VFL games. You can't 'hide' anyone anymore.

Playing him may have exposed him more. But by not playing him no one would have known if he could play at that level.

His multi goal, 4th quarter dominations as an 18 year old vs many afl players in the wet would of shot him up the rankings

They look at kids for years but 1000s of them. Not many are bog in a match with afl listed players

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Did you watch those games by any chance?

Yes, and he was being discussed around the league long before those games

He was always going to be picked, just at what price.

 

[baphomet]

Yes, and he was being discussed around the league long before those games

He was always going to be picked, just at what price.

That's the point isn't it

We could have taken him say third round in the rookie draft perhaps

If we didn't play him in the Vfl

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Oh well and maybe he would have gone un drafted and we get him FREE after the rookie draft as a cat-B

The way the world works is richmond don't win flags for 40 odd years

The house is stacked against most clubs now except gws. But still, I'm pretty happy with the way we've gone about out business this pre season, losing Yarran this week had taken a shine off things somewhat tho

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's the point isn't it

We could have taken him say third round in the rookie draft perhaps

If we didn't play him in the Vfl

give you a tip - if we were talking about him on this board before the vfl games, recruiters may have been as well

the era of hiding players (while everyone still tries) is 100% dead

 

[prodigy]

That's the point isn't it

We could have taken him say third round in the rookie draft perhaps

If we didn't play him in the Vfl

So you're saying, if he didn't play those two VFL games, no one would have drafted him?

Absurd.


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[baphomet]

give you a tip - if we were talking about him on this board before the vfl games, recruiters may have been as well

the era of hiding players (while everyone still tries) is 100% dead

The era might be over but we didn't have to play him in in a few meaningless Vfl games. Dumb

So you're saying, if he didn't play those two VFL games, no one would have drafted him?

Absurd.


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He was drafted 50 odd

If he didn't dominate in the Vfl with bog match winnings efforts vs afl players he might of realistically gone To us in the rookie draft.

 

[DrMike]

Totally forgot, we've added Drummond back in to our midfield as well
+ Prestia, Caddy, Graham, Vlastuin, Drummond
- Deledio

 

[DrMike]

The era might be over but we didn't have to play him in in a few meaningless Vfl games. Dumb

He was drafted 50 odd

If he didn't dominate in the Vfl with bog match winnings efforts vs afl players he might of realistically gone To us in the rookie draft.

And we wouldn't have wanted him anyway because he wouldn't have shown off anything to justify it

Don't be a hindsight hero

 

[Lacustrus]

How many Vfl games did he play two? It's really such a big issue to not play him in order to he him free te next season

He's 18 he'll be fine without a salary for another year.

PC crap no hiding Kirby. Not sacking Dimma. Letting yarren no train if he feels sad. Dan Richardson and grigg havin list management discussion at the beach during warm down sessions

PC crap? really?
Players got ever right to do what they need to get on an afl list.
It's a catch 22, if he didn't play those two games, he couldn't show anyone what he was capable of . Players hiding is not in their interest.

 

[baphomet]

And we wouldn't have wanted him anyway because he wouldn't have shown off anything to justify it

Don't be a hindsight hero

Lol @ hind site hero draft was last night

I openly admit I'm pissed the kids a collingwood player I wish him best of luck

 

[DrMike]

Lol @ hind site hero draft was last night

I openly admit I'm pissed the kids a collingwood player I wish him best of luck

Had you heard of Kirby prior to him playing VFL for us?

 

[baphomet]

Had you heard of Kirby prior to him playing VFL for us?

Nope, I gave up on th draft after we picked up Jon instead of Hurn

I just thought he was awesome watching him would of loved him at tigers

 

[baphomet]

PC crap? really?
Players got ever right to do what they need to get on an afl list.
It's a catch 22, if he didn't play those two games, he couldn't show anyone what he was capable of . Players hiding is not in their interest.

I don't give a rats toss bag what's best for Kirby

I only care what's best for Richmond.

Don't feed me PC crap please

 

[DrMike]

Nope, I gave up on th draft after we picked up Jon instead of Hurn

I just thought he was awesome watching him would of loved him at tigers

Of course it would be nice. Would have been nicer if McGrath, Taranto and McCluggage slipped to our picks.
Jy Simpkin was another on our list that went at 12. Why aren't you suggesting we didn't hide him?

Gotta be realistic.

 

[RockJobster0312]

The era might be over but we didn't have to play him in in a few meaningless Vfl games. Dumb



He was drafted 50 odd

If he didn't dominate in the Vfl with bog match winnings efforts vs afl players he might of realistically gone To us in the rookie draft.

Dumb? Seriously? As it has been said, every state league plays players who will be drafted. For every one that 'shoots' up draft one gets found out and squashes a dream. Meaningless to the club is not meaningless to the players who get a chance to play.

You also make the mistake of assuming that we would have nominated him as a Cat-B rookie if we didn't play him in the VFL. It's equally possible that we wouldn't have nominated him if it weren't for the VFL games.

The reality is that teams don't just draft players of one or two performances. There is so much more that gets taken into account. I doubt that in the grand scheme of things those VFL games made a massive difference.

 

[baphomet]

Of course it would be nice. Would have been nicer if McGrath, Taranto and McCluggage slipped to our picks.
Jy Simpkin was another on our list that went at 12. Why aren't you suggesting we didn't hide him?

Gotta be realistic.

Again he was pick 50 odd

It's not a huge stretch he would of dropped a lot if he didn't excell in the Vfl

 

[DrMike]

Again he was pick 50 odd

It's not a huge stretch he would of dropped a lot if he didn't excell in the Vfl

Almost everyone had him going as a very late pick or a rookie
Collingwood reached

 

[Grockadoc]

There's a thread on the Drafts board that collects data from a lot of phantoms. The poster then worked out who got the best drafts based on where their picks were projected to go V where they went in the actual draft.

Based on this, we actually had the best draft or had the biggest "steals" if you consider where they went.

I also used the stats I've collected to ask the question "Which clubs reached for their players the most and which got bargains?"
This implies the combined wisdom of the phantom drafts is worth comparing to. Which some would debate, but it does give a numerical figure to the complaints that we all hear when a club selects someone few of us have heard of.
For this, I subtracted the real draft pick of a player from their average phantom draft pick. A player with a negative score was selected lower than expected, a positive score higher.
For example, Sean Darcy got picked at 38, but the 6 drafts that selected him had an average of 73.2. Difference = 35.2. But Luke Ryan was widely tipped to picked earlier (at an average of 33.3) was picked at 66. Difference = -32.7
This was impossible for 5 players who weren't picked by any phantom drafts, so they were left blank. (Geelong had two of these.)

I then added these scores together to get an idea of the difference from expectations of each club's draft picks.

Richmond -45.5
Gold Coast -44.1
Carlton -36.2
Brisbane -28.0
West Coast -26.3
Hawthorn -20.7
Essendon -18.3
Fremantle -5.1
Adelaide -4.7
Sydney 8.6
Port Adelaide 16.7
St. Kilda 22.4
Melbourne 26.0
GWS 27.6
North Melbourne 32.0
Collingwood 36.5
Western Bulldogs 39.0
Geelong 50.4

Overall, Richmond, Gold Coast and Carlton fans should feel happy that they got the biggest bargains, while Geelong, Bulldogs and Collingwood fans will have to trust that their recruiting teams knew what they would were doing, because they reached the most for the players they selected.

 

[baphomet]

Almost everyone had him going as a very late pick or a rookie
Collingwood reached

Mostly ... Cause of his kick ass Vfl performances.

Dumb? Seriously? As it has been said, every state league plays players who will be drafted. For every one that 'shoots' up draft one gets found out and squashes a dream. Meaningless to the club is not meaningless to the players who get a chance to play.

You also make the mistake of assuming that we would have nominated him as a Cat-B rookie if we didn't play him in the VFL. It's equally possible that we wouldn't have nominated him if it weren't for the VFL games.

The reality is that teams don't just draft players of one or two performances. There is so much more that gets taken into account. I doubt that in the grand scheme of things those VFL games made a massive difference.

I'm happy to have a discussion but let's try stay realistic.

The reality is most would of thought Kirby was alright

But would of had a rethink when te 18 year old indigenous lad was bog with dominating 4th quarter performances in the wet vs afl players

 

[DrMike]

Mostly ... Cause of his kick ass Vfl performances.

No decent recruiter would use this as the basis of picking him up
Nothing more from me to add

 

[baphomet]

No decent recruiter would use this as the basis of picking him up
Nothing more from me to add

With respect I entirely disagree.

I think you underestimate how good the (18 yoa indigenous) kid was against afl players.

It was a pleasure conversing with you regardless

 

[RockJobster0312]

I'm happy to have a discussion but let's try stay realistic.

The reality is most would of thought Kirby was alright

But would of had a rethink when te 18 year old indigenous lad was bog with dominating 4th quarter performances in the wet vs afl players

That's not the reality! That's what you assume recruiters were thinking.

Im likewise happy to have the discussion within the realms of reality, but let's not mix reality up with assumption.

The reality is your taking your viewpoint on a player your readily admit as being unknown to you until two VFL games, and supplanting said viewpoint on the all recruiters. Which by virtue includes our own.

The reality is that the VFL game would have provided information to 18 AFL clubs about a player. That information would have been used in conjunction with A) years worth of tape and live viewing. B) medical history. C) player interviews. D) coach interviews. E) psychological testing. F) physical testing. G) skills testing.

There's also likely to be more information they would have gathered.

Kirby would have likewise been seeing for the Pioneers in the 13 games this season where he kicked 32 goals, including a bag of 6 in one game. Across these 13 games he would have played against multiple AFL talented players.

 

[_RT_]

To suggest that Kirby and Oliver only got noticed because of playing VFL for us is pure naivety. It's not like the vast majority on here who only start to notice kids once the season is shot and the draft is the saving grace that gets you through the season. These kids are watched for 2-3 years by recruiters before they are drafted so would be on the radars of clubs well before they pulled on the Richmond VFL jumper. As Clarke said in the preview video we've got someone employed full time who watches the kids eligible for the 2017 draft who will now turn his attention to kids who can be drafted in 2018.