Resource 2017 AFL and AFLW Crowds and Ratings

[BringBackTorps]

more teams is likely going to dilute[UNLIKELY] the averages further as well. I agree the AFL have to start scheduling for crowds more - the times for WA games this season is ridiculous. They just have to be night games[COMMON SENSE] going forward if they want to MAXIMISE crowds, 2pm starts in Perth in February/March is SUICIDE.

When Coll FC start playing at Vic. Park, when Geelong play at Kardinia Park, when Ess. FC start playing at Windy Hill, when Richmond play at enlarged Punt Rd (or Vic. Park/Princes Park), when St Kilda play at Moorabbin, Port Ad. at Alberton (cap. 15,000), Hawthorn at ? -the average crowds will EXPLODE. WC at a WAFL ground.
Most expert commentators suggest one reason for the good AFLW crowds is the charm of the "ol' time footy grounds". You disagree?

Playing early afternoon games in Perth in summer is not just "suicide"for crowds. It is wanton disregard for the players' & fans' welfare & comfort -& stupidity re promoting the AFLW. We only pay the AFL management team $8,000,000 pa -this is not enough; we should pay more for a new mob, who might be aware that AF is not a game to be played in high heat. Maybe current mob think games are in Perth, Scotland?
You know Perth weather -would you like to be the new AFL CEO, $1,500,000 pa not bad?

 

[Rob]

When Coll FC start playing at Vic. Park, when Geelong play at Kardinia Park, when Ess. FC start playing at Windy Hill, when Richmond play at enlarged Punt Rd (or Vic. Park/Princes Park), when St Kilda play at Moorabbin, Port Ad. at Alberton, Hawthorn at ? -the average crowds will EXPLODE.
Most expert commentators suggest one reason for the good AFLW crowds is the charm of the "ol' time footy grounds". You disagree?

I agree that's a reason for the initial good crowds. But that's also a novelty that could easily wear off. There's a reason why games aren't played at those venues any more - the seating is poor, the facilities are shite and they're mostly hard to get to. Add a $15-20 entry fee and an average crowd of 5,000 a game would be a brilliant result. IMO it's going to settle at 3-4000 a game.

You seem to be talking about your predictions as if they're already a matter of fact. You can't say something's wrong when it hasn't happened yet.

 

[BringBackTorps]

VERY unlikely the novelty will wear off.

No Final Four, so some games were dead rubbers in 2017. Going to a proper Finals will sustain interest for more teams, & much longer -& thus INCREASE crowds.

No one has suggested AFLW entry fees will be close to an AFL game -probably far from it. In a few years, perhaps adults $4, kids $1.

Incidentally, when WC come in, what WAFL grounds are on their shortlist if AFLW crowds continue to boom?
If AFLW is played at their new facility being built -is this easy to get to by public transport; & its capacity? Is it tiered, has seats, & offers shelter from the sun?

 

[NoobPie]

VERY unlikely the novelty will wear off.

No Final Four, so some games were dead rubbers in 2017. Going to a proper Finals will sustain interest for much longer -& thus INCREASE crowds.

No one has suggested AFLW entry fees will be close to an AFL game -probably far from it. In a few years, perhaps adults $4, kids $1.

Incidentally, when WC come in, what WAFL grounds are on their shortlist if AFLW crowds continue to boom?
If AFLW is played at their new facility being built -is this easy to get to by public transport; & is capacity? Is it tiered, has seats, & offers shelter from the sun?

On charging entry, I reckon there is every chance that there won't be standard entry fees for a decade or more. The AFL will prioritise getting sponsorship a and TV rights revenues. Clubs are already selling memberships but another idea could be to collect money voluntarily at the gate / ground.

The problem with having entry charges at the small amount you have suggested is it would barely cover the extra administrative, operational and security costs associated with collecting that money and enforcing compliance.

Will be interesting to see how the membership sales go this year

Last year, I don't think Collingwood offered them until the season had pretty much started. This year, they are raised to equal prominence on the membership homepage.

https://membership.collingwoodfc.com.au/

So Collingwood's women's memberships are $90 for a new member and $60 for an upgrade on an existing membership. If you get 5,000 of the latter and 1,000 of the former, you have $390K. Even at $10 a ticket, you would need 10K for each of 4 games to match the membership revenue. Which do you think seems more likely?

Memberships and voluntary pay-what-you-can at the ground is the way to go IMHO

 

[Our Game]

VERY unlikely the novelty will wear off.

No Final Four, so some games were dead rubbers in 2017. Going to a proper Finals will sustain interest for much longer -& thus INCREASE crowds.

No one has suggested AFLW entry fees will be close to an AFL game -probably far from it. In a few years, perhaps adults $4, kids $1.

Incidentally, when WC come in, what WAFL grounds are on their shortlist if AFLW crowds continue to boom?
If AFLW is played at their new facility being built -is this easy to get to by public transport; & is capacity? Is it tiered, has seats, & offers shelter from the sun?

Lets just wait and see how the crowds hold up this coming season when the initial fanfare dies down.
It will come down to if the public is prepared to watch a much inferior standard to Mens footy and eventually have to pay to watch it.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Lets just wait and see how the crowds hold up this coming season when the initial fanfare DIES DOWN [UNLIKELY]
It will come down to if the public is prepared to watch a MUCH INFERIOR standard to Mens footy and eventually have to pay to watch it.

This 3 min. ABC Radio AM program provides perspectives from a Fitzroy JFC young girl on why she wants to play AF; & from Fitzroy Club officials. Fitzroy JFC increased its girls' teams from 4-8 in 2017, & wants more!
IF their perspectives are correct, it is unlikely "the initial AFLW fanfare dies down".

With the booming regd. female AF nos.(c. 400 NEW JNR. girls' teams created in 2017 alone, Aust. wide), skill standards are CERTAIN to rise rapidly over the next 5-10 years.
With this GR surge in female nos. & inevitable significant skill increases (& other reasons), the AFLW popularity should increase. Fans will eventually be willing to pay an entry fee in future years.

Would an average 8,000 adults paying $4 each/2000 kids $1 each still be "collection-cost effective", after cost of eight collecting/money counting/auditing staff etc. working 3-4 hours each, are subtracted? Probably.
I assume W League soccer & WNBL basketball, with much smaller stand-alone crowds cf AFLW's 6,500 average, have no "collection efficiency" issues -& charge fan admission. Ditto small, average sub 1000 crowds paying to watch semi-pro women's soccer in UK & Europe.

Would AFLW players feel a bit insulted if they are getting good crowds, but the AFL simply leaves it up to the fan to decide if he/she wants to pay a voluntary entry fee? I suspect most players would be unhappy, as it could be implied that the AFL considers their contribution to AF is not worthy of a compulsory fee to enter.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2016/s4642895.htm

EDIT:
SEN Radio (Melb.) news reported 30.11 that Albert Park (inner sth. Melb.) Golf Course advises the Course"...is likely to lose half of its parkland due to declining player nos., which is also happening at many Courses around Aust...". Albert Park said the likely beneficiary of the Course reduction are " cycling & community sport clubs, which are booming". Northcote Golf Course (inner nth. Melb., fairly close to Fitzroy) is under similar pressure.

Golf & Racecourses (inside Rails area) could be dragged into "code wars"!

Caulfield Racecorse (S/E Melb.) inside race railings area is being considered for community use on non-Race days; ditto Randwick Racecourse, Sydney E/suburbs, for GR AF Clubs.

 

[Rob]

VERY unlikely the novelty will wear off.

No Final Four, so some games were dead rubbers in 2017. Going to a proper Finals will sustain interest for more teams, & much longer -& thus INCREASE crowds.

No one has suggested AFLW entry fees will be close to an AFL game -probably far from it. In a few years, perhaps adults $4, kids $1.

There is no point charging $4 entry, the costs to administer it would probably exceed the revenue being collected. You'd want a minimum of $10 to make it worth anything.

Incidentally, when WC come in, what WAFL grounds are on their shortlist if AFLW crowds continue to boom?
If AFLW is played at their new facility being built -is this easy to get to by public transport; & its capacity? Is it tiered, has seats, & offers shelter from the sun?

Plenty of options i'd imagine. Leederville is the obvious choice. Joondalup would also be fine. Lathlain Park is an option as well given that's where their training base is, although that's a bitch to get to now. It used to have a big car park and a train station next to it, but both of those are no longer there.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The AFLW crowds will increase as the AFL have scheduled it better with the understanding of how successful it would have been.

The example I like to give is say you're a footy fan in Sydney: someone who saw the AFLW promotions, it being in the news, and wanted to watch the new games.

The issue is that GWS only played two home games for the season this year, one at 5pm on a Friday, and another at 12.05pm on a Saturday, ie, two inconvenient times for fans of footy, there's no doubt in a city of almost 5 million people that there are several thousand who would have wanted to go to those games but couldn't because of the timing.

Now compare that to the games scheduled for the coming season: Friday, 7.05pm, Sunday, 4.35pm, Saturday, 7.10pm, ie, three times more typical for sports fans and will probably see several thousand more go to those games than the ones who went last season.

 

[Gigantor]

If A-League attendances were low last weekend, they are likely to be absolutely dire this weekend with all the rain up and down the East coast.

 

[Rob]

If A-League attendances were low last weekend, they are likely to be absolutely dire this weekend with all the rain up and down the East coast.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the biggest club in Australian sport. Well, not yet. But they will be. Apparently.

I know the answer, let's knock it down and spend $1.3 billion on a new one!

 

[NoobPie]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the biggest club in Australian sport. Well, not yet. But they will be. Apparently.

I know the answer, let's knock it down and spend $1.3 billion on a new one!

Apparently 8215 there! Other 7,000 must be behind the photographer!

That's the thing about these a league franchises...a lot of hot air early on, extreme delusions of grandeur then boredom for many who fade away and deep frustration for those true believers who hang around...they've all followed this trajectory

Anyway, couldn't have happened to a better bloke

 

[Cmarsh]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the biggest club in Australian sport. Well, not yet. But they will be. Apparently.

I know the answer, let's knock it down and spend $1.3 billion on a new one!

Its hard to believe that gws are the butt of jokes in Sydney when wsw are just about on par with us outside their local derby with Sydney FC which is just full of event goers.

 

[Rob]

Its hard to believe that gws are the butt of jokes in Sydney when wsw are just about on par with us outside their local derby with Sydney FC which is just full of event goers.

To be honest, what's happened to the Wanderers is not a good sign for GWS. You have basically the heartland of Australian soccer and even they are as popular as syphillis. NRL crowds there are generally rubbish as well. What chance do the Giants have of getting 20k every week? The only thing they have to hang their hats on is, ironically, the Swans. If they can get a crowd on the other side of Sydney (against the same shite crowds for other codes) then I guess there's hope in the West.

But looking at it from an outsider, it's a community that does not appear to give a rats ass about sports. Not live sport anyway. And to be competitive in the AFL you need a far higher support level than other leagues.

 

[magic_johnson!]

55,317 at the cricket today - surprising given that the cricket capacity is a few thousand short of football capacity...

 

[NoobPie]

55,317 at the cricket today - surprising given that the cricket capacity is a few thousand short of football capacity...

Well, that clearly can't be the case then. Reckon they got as many as they could get in there for a footy match at the prelim and only got 53,817

 

[NoobPie]

To be honest, what's happened to the Wanderers is not a good sign for GWS. You have basically the heartland of Australian soccer and even they are as popular as syphillis. NRL crowds there are generally rubbish as well. What chance do the Giants have of getting 20k every week? The only thing they have to hang their hats on is, ironically, the Swans. If they can get a crowd on the other side of Sydney (against the same shite crowds for other codes) then I guess there's hope in the West.

But looking at it from an outsider, it's a community that does not appear to give a rats ass about sports. Not live sport anyway. And to be competitive in the AFL you need a far higher support level than other leagues.

Actually I think the Swans are precisely the model and appropriate comparison. They built up over decades to what they are now.

Conversely, Sydney FC got their biggest average non-derby crowds in the first three years and had a brief renaissance with ADP and a "derby partner" (yeah, I know right?) but other wise have proven to be mainly piss and wind...and wanderers appear to be following suit. The massive soccer participation in Sydney hasn't worked for either of them.

The NRL's attendance in Sydney isn't that bad when you consider there are 9 teams there and how hard it is to get around.

Ultimately the AFL has a pretty impeccable record of drawing crowds everywhere. Even the lions sustained ~30k average crowds until long after they had fallen away

Whatever the rate of growth, the Giants will be OK longer term. Probably never in the Swans levels of popularity but they don't need to be.

 

[The_Wookie]

55,317 at the cricket today - surprising given that the cricket capacity is a few thousand short of football capacity...

theyve got room for another 8,000 out the back. not even kidding.

 

[kaypee]

Ha

To be honest, what's happened to the Wanderers is not a good sign for GWS. You have basically the heartland of Australian soccer and even they are as popular as syphillis. NRL crowds there are generally rubbish as well. What chance do the Giants have of getting 20k every week? The only thing they have to hang their hats on is, ironically, the Swans. If they can get a crowd on the other side of Sydney (against the same shite crowds for other codes) then I guess there's hope in the West.

But looking at it from an outsider, it's a community that does not appear to give a rats ass about sports. Not live sport anyway. And to be competitive in the AFL you need a far higher support level than other leagues.

Have faith, gentle one. In Sydney's west, Australian football will endure, and then flower.

 

[Our Game]

55,317 at the cricket today - surprising given that the cricket capacity is a few thousand short of football capacity...

Thats BS as there are a couple of thousand seats covered for sight screens and the crowd on the hill was quite sparse
If that was 55K then the AFL must have had crowds of over 60,000 when he ground was chockers!

 

[Our Game]

Apparently 8215 there! Other 7,000 must be behind the photographer!

That's the thing about these a league franchises...a lot of hot air early on, extreme delusions of grandeur then boredom for many who fade away and deep frustration for those true believers who hang around...they've all followed this trajectory

Anyway, couldn't have happened to a better bloke

Their total for 3 matches so far his round is only 23,000 I would say the A League has gone backwards this season which you would think puts any expansion plans on hold for a long time.
The FFA will need all the money they get from the WC just to prop up the A League.
WSW who were seen as the saviours of soccer in Sydney esp in the western suburbs have really gone backwards as well this season.Just the facts mam just the facts!

 

[Our Game]

Well, that clearly can't be the case then. Reckon they got as many as they could get in there for a footy match at the prelim and only got 53,817

Yes its a bit odd as the official website has the Capacity as 53,500 and the biggest crowd so far is 53,583 for AFL So obviously they are allowed to sell thousands more tickets becaue they have the outside are that holds a lot of people
This would only work for the cricket where you can miss part of the game and come back in and nothing much has happened.Looking at the crowd yeaterday there would have been lucky to 48,000 in the actual ground at any one time.

 

[NoobPie]

Thats BS as there are a couple of thousand seats covered for sight screens and the crowd on the hill was quite sparse
If that was 55K then the AFL must have had crowds of over 60,000 when he ground was chockers!

as the wookie said, I think there are big screens out the back so they can get a stack more GA in. Pretty clever really cos they can sell a stack more tickets that way

 

[kaypee]

Their total for 3 matches so far his round is only 23,000 I would say the A League has gone backwards this season which you would think puts any expansion plans on hold for a long time.
The FFA will need all the money they get from the WC just to prop up the A League.
WSW who were seen as the saviours of soccer in Sydney esp in the western suburbs have really gone backwards as well this season.Just the facts mam just the facts!

I gather part of the reason a-league supporters want expansion is because with just ten teams the league is repetitive, which is to blame for dwindling interest.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I gather part of the reason a-league supporters want expansion is because with just ten teams the league is repetitive, which is to blame for dwindling interest.

Which you can't blame them. Playing everyone three times just to make the final six out of ten sides is ridiculous.
The problem is they really need to add 4 teams (which isn't viable) to have a decent draw. (Play everyone twice)
If they add two sides and play everyone twice, soccer supporters will think the season is too short and if they play everyone three times they'll be in the exact same position as they are now but worse because it'll get lost in the AFL and NRL seasons.

 

[NoobPie]

Looks like the rlwc final will beat the ashes third session in the ratings

836 metro for the ashes compared to 842 for Syd, melb and Brits for the league. Pretty amazed at how the Melbourne ratings held up for the league with 168k. I know there are a lot of expats in Melbourne now but I was under the working assumption that people will watch top level league in Melbourne in the absence of football or cricket being on.

Of course, we don't know yet how many viewers the Melbourne city took yet