Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[La Dispute]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

 

[ShanDog]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

Really good question. Would love to hear opinions.

 

[BLUE ROOSTAR]

Getting on but at least an accumulator of possessions and uses it pretty well. Big bodied mid.

 

[LanceRomance]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

Rhys is a goal kicker.

I expect he will form part of our 22 ahead of Kerridge

 

[La Dispute]

Rhys is a goal kicker.

I expect he will form part of our 22 ahead of Kerridge

We need more depth in the midfield though. Barlow averaged 25 touches to Palmer's 14.

 

[Soapy V]

We need more depth in the midfield though. Barlow averaged 25 touches to Palmer's 14.

We are rebuilding. Barlow would take up time in the midfield and we already have Curnow Cripps Murphy & Gibbs. Focus needs to be on Cuningham Fisher Polson SPS Sumner Charlie Pickett getting valuable game time

I would suggest that we took Palmer as part of the deals for Pickett & Marchbank to take away some salary cap pressure from GWS.

 

[La Dispute]

We are rebuilding. Barlow would take up time in the midfield and we already have Curnow Cripps Murphy & Gibbs. Focus needs to be on Cuningham Fisher Polson SPS Sumner Charlie Pickett getting valuable game time

I would suggest that we took Palmer as part of the deals for Pickett & Marchbank to take away some salary cap pressure from GWS.

We could have used him in a similar role to Palmer, he has decent goal sense as well.

I agree with the second point, and I'm almost sure we're continuing to take on salaries to further accommodate the trades.

 

[LordLucifer]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

I reckon it had more to do with the other GWS guys we picked up instead of Palmer. GWS were playing hardball on Marchbank and maybe the offer of taking Palmer and his contract off their hands if they let Marchbank go was the only way the deal could get done.

It wouldn't be the first time we have taken some extra collateral to get a deal done with them either.

 

[Jimmae]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

Really good question. Would love to hear opinions.

IMO, a bit of garnering favour with GWS, and a bit of Palmer being a more balanced option that came to us significantly cheaper in the long run.

Barlow would have gotten a pretty strong 2 year deal, and he's now in the leadership group for the Suns, which says a bit about them, but also about the kinds of demands he was making and the kind of promises GC made in turn (pushing for the 8 over the next 18 months, I suspect).

No idea if the Suns will come good on their word, but I suspect we were more realistic and probably pulled away when his market value drifted beyond our valuation. Barrett's probably the more surprising one in retrospect.

Or passing over the options at the end of the 2015 draft when we had a pick available straight after Mitch Brown's selection. Menegola would have been handy about now, though it would have come at the expense of Kerr or Graham this year.

 

[KohPhi]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

Just pure speculation but maybe he wasn't interested in coming to us.

 

[Jimmae]

Just pure speculation but maybe he wasn't interested in coming to us.

Early word was he was looking to come over to Victoria.

 

[KohPhi]

Early word was he was looking to come over to Victoria.

Yeah I remember that, knowing he may only have 2 years he may have wanted to go to a contender. Personally I would have loved him to be a Blue. Bloody hell we could do with him.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

Maybe Barlow didn't want to come to Carlton. We probably had to take Palmer to get Marchbank & Pickett.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

I think we opted for A Silvagni instead...

Barlow would have played for us and helped our young midfielders develop....that put us off

 

[GapInIkonPark]

We'll have huge room to move with re salary cap limit, Thomas, Lamb, Jones, Gorringe, Jaksch, Graham to be dilisted.
Simpson and Armfield perhaps retire, Gibbs may be traded, Kreuzer and Casboult can walk if they want to And there may be more.
Huge room to move we have to chase a few quality players.

Not much additional salary cap space when we also delist Boekhorst.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

2018 first pick is totally expendable.

BOSOS will be pick 1 so what's the point on using pick ~4 on him may as well use our second and third etc.

We should 100% be putting it on the table for a guy like Hopper.


2017
-Our pick (top 5)
-Adelaide pick (pick 10)
-Hopper (2018 first)

2018
-BOSOS

No.

Our list is not that good and will not be that good that we take Ben Silvagni and 2 picks in the 80's in the 2018 draft.

So, if Adelaide come calling for Gibbs:
- second round pick 2017 (give back a fourth round say 2018) AND
- first round 2018

Get Ben Silvagni and another first round pick in 2018 draft, (and some decent other picks) and a second round pick in 2017 draft.

2017 is tough for our list management:
- need to start fixing our poor ruck division. I predict Kreuzer goes under free agency, Gorringe and Korcheck (rookie) delisted. Leaves Phillips.
- I also predict Casboult goes under free agency.
- need class midfielders as Murphy, Gibbs (who might well be traded) and E Curnow (who is underrated by many) are closer to the end of their careers
- Armfield and White to retire (Simpson to continue)
- Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, Boekhorst, Gorringe, Buckley, Graham likely delisted.

JGM, Sheehan and Le Bois rookie upgrades, if Gibbs stays that is 9 senior list spots to fill and 10 if Gibbs goes.

I would have liked a Nankervis (Richmond from Swans). Richmond gave up its third round pick.

Might be a year of 3-4 delisted free agents helping the kids until we go again at the 2018 draft.

 

[RudyBlue]

history shows that you tend to generally pluck decent ruckmen from obscurity. we certainly won't make the mistake of using a high draft pick on one again. particularly with the emphasis of only one genuine ruckman in teams, i think we should have no trouble finding one on the market if kruezer and phillips don't work out.

We need this year's Nankervis

 

[Jimmae]

No.

Our list is not that good and will not be that good that we take Ben Silvagni and 2 picks in the 80's in the 2018 draft.

Agree, but that comes down to where Ben is ultimately valued. I think top 10 is the upper limit, because like his brother, he won't come very physically developed.

So, if Adelaide come calling for Gibbs:
- second round pick 2017 (give back a fourth round say 2018) AND
- first round 2018

So roughly the same deal as last year? No.

2017 is tough for our list management:
- need to start fixing our poor ruck division. I predict Kreuzer goes under free agency, Gorringe and Korcheck (rookie) delisted. Leaves Phillips.
- I also predict Casboult goes under free agency.

This is taking a poor ruck division and completely flushing it down the toilet. Without decent compensation for Kreuzer, we've got no option to gather a replacement. You're bonkers if you think Phillips is just going to spring up after years of recurring injuries and consistently lead the line, especially with how slow-paced he was last year.

- need class midfielders as Murphy, Gibbs (who might well be traded) and E Curnow (who is underrated by many) are closer to the end of their careers
- Armfield and White to retire (Simpson to continue)

I think Armfield has more in him, and doesn't have the wear and tear of most players his age; don't count him out yet. Simmo has maybe one more year in him unless he's responded remarkably to new training techniques.

- Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, Boekhorst, Gorringe, Buckley, Graham likely delisted.

I think 2-3 of those names will stay.

JGM, Sheehan and Le Bois rookie upgrades, if Gibbs stays that is 9 senior list spots to fill and 10 if Gibbs goes.

Literally none of those rookies need to be upgraded unless we're concerned about giving 2 year contracts to a late ND pick, or we need to reinforce a position and don't want to be restricted to a rookie elevation to enable it.

On current (and likely 2018 season) depth, that's only Sheehan, who seems to be coming from even further back than many of us thought despite being re-rookied.

I would have liked a Nankervis (Richmond from Swans). Richmond gave up its third round pick.

Whoever we're getting is odds on to be our #1 ruck, so we've got to make a pretty inspired trade, and you're proposing we signal this advanced by burning our existing hand, which further bumps up the price. Not a chance.

Might be a year of 3-4 delisted free agents helping the kids until we go again at the 2018 draft.

It is incredibly thin on the ground for uncontracted rucks, especially once you're being realistic about who will be available as a DFA.

The good news is, there's lots of running defenders. I suspect SOS is geared for this kind of signing and will look to retain Kreuzer unless he gets an offer worthy of a top 25 pick. I can also see Korcheck and Gorringe being retained, but again I must stress that the point of retaining Gorringe is as a forward/ruck, with a strong emphasis on the KPF component.

 

[Jimmae]

My personal take:

Delisted/FA: White, Lamb, Jaksch, Jones, Graham, Casboult, Phillips, Gallucci, JGM
Traded: Boekhorst (for a pittance)
Definitely re-signed: Kreuzer (2 years)
On the edge: Simpson (body/trades), Armfield (trades), Wright (trades), Buckley (trades), Gorringe (trades), Thomas (body/trades)

FA: Fyfe

Can see us having a crack at both Kennedy's, Martin (who I don't want at our club), Picken, Reid, Mackenzie, Trengove (PAF), Mackie, Mundy, Duryea and Zaharakis, but I don't expect any to come off.

Trade wise, I think we'll try to do another deal with GWS to secure one of Zac Williams and Nathan Wilson, then up to two of Adam Kennedy, Finlayson and Haynes, and we'll package to net Matthew Kennedy or Hopper for a good price. There's a slim chance we might look at Downie or Flynn as well.

We'll also push hard for one of Shiel, Smith and Whitfield, but I can see us being easily priced out for Shiel. Gibbs might wind up being a makeweight in such deals, but I believe we have enough currency to keep him, but it will involve cashing out of this year's early picks and using a 2nd round future pick.

Shiel is obvious; Whitfield is underperforming in their side, but may be overvalued. He's not an inside bull, and there are others who are outperforming him around the clearances and on the outside.

Smith is one you're hoping will grow with a larger midfield role because he's not a high scoring forward. Again, I think he will be highly targeted simply because he will be seen as the obvious bargain to clubs looking for midfield pace, like Geelong.

Can't be bothered dissecting other clubs, but we'll be in a position to court young talent and topping up structural issues without overpaying.

With respect to the draft, I think we'll divest ourselves of it unless we have a top 5 pick. The goal will be to turn our first rounder and a future 2nd into Whitfield, Kennedy/Hopper and someone like Williams, while we'll still be securing a good talent via the NextGen academy.

Getting more from GWS might push 2 or 3 of Wright, Thomas, Armfield and Gorringe out of the club.

Ideal 2018 22:

FB: Macreadie Marchbank Byrne
HB: Williams Weitering Docherty
C: Whitfield Murphy Simpson
HF: Gibbs C.Curnow SPS
FF: Silvagni McKay Pickett

R: Krezuer Cripps Fyfe

Int: <2nd ruck> Cuningham Polson E.Curnow

 

[Blue Razor]

Does anyone want to speculate on why we signed Rhys Palmer instead of targeting Michael Barlow? Maybe another trade clause to nab Marchbank and Pickett?

MB would have been very handy for a few years.

My thought would be it was more a financial and trade deal decision rather then a player decision
SOS knew is contract amount and status and didnt have to offer anything where as barlow would need a new contract taking up salary cap in future.

Marchbank and pickett deals though separate would include we take on palmer salary but not sure why they were separate at the time.

 

[La Dispute]

I wonder what Whitfield would cost. Undoubted talent, was comfortably the best player in his draft field but doesn't stand out in that GWS lineup.

He's the kind of player we need though with his poise and kicking skills.

 

[Weiterbot23]

No.

Our list is not that good and will not be that good that we take Ben Silvagni and 2 picks in the 80's in the 2018 draft.

So, if Adelaide come calling for Gibbs:
- second round pick 2017 (give back a fourth round say 2018) AND
- first round 2018

Get Ben Silvagni and another first round pick in 2018 draft, (and some decent other picks) and a second round pick in 2017 draft.

2017 is tough for our list management:
- need to start fixing our poor ruck division. I predict Kreuzer goes under free agency, Gorringe and Korcheck (rookie) delisted. Leaves Phillips.
- I also predict Casboult goes under free agency.
- need class midfielders as Murphy, Gibbs (who might well be traded) and E Curnow (who is underrated by many) are closer to the end of their careers
- Armfield and White to retire (Simpson to continue)
- Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, Boekhorst, Gorringe, Buckley, Graham likely delisted.

JGM, Sheehan and Le Bois rookie upgrades, if Gibbs stays that is 9 senior list spots to fill and 10 if Gibbs goes.

I would have liked a Nankervis (Richmond from Swans). Richmond gave up its third round pick.

Might be a year of 3-4 delisted free agents helping the kids until we go again at the 2018 draft.

I think you are being unrealistic in what Gibbs is worth.

We'd be better off getting 2 first rounders this year, to develop with our current crop than waiting another year.

 

[zeeCFC]

I wonder what Whitfield would cost. Undoubted talent, was comfortably the best player in his draft field but doesn't stand out in that GWS lineup.

He's the kind of player we need though with his poise and kicking skills.

Doesn't stand out at GWS? Had some brilliant games when I was watching.

 

[TooBlue14]

No.

Our list is not that good and will not be that good that we take Ben Silvagni and 2 picks in the 80's in the 2018 draft.

So, if Adelaide come calling for Gibbs:
- second round pick 2017 (give back a fourth round say 2018) AND
- first round 2018

Get Ben Silvagni and another first round pick in 2018 draft, (and some decent other picks) and a second round pick in 2017 draft.

2017 is tough for our list management:
- need to start fixing our poor ruck division. I predict Kreuzer goes under free agency, Gorringe and Korcheck (rookie) delisted. Leaves Phillips.
- I also predict Casboult goes under free agency.
- need class midfielders as Murphy, Gibbs (who might well be traded) and E Curnow (who is underrated by many) are closer to the end of their careers
- Armfield and White to retire (Simpson to continue)
- Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, Boekhorst, Gorringe, Buckley, Graham likely delisted.

JGM, Sheehan and Le Bois rookie upgrades, if Gibbs stays that is 9 senior list spots to fill and 10 if Gibbs goes.

I would have liked a Nankervis (Richmond from Swans). Richmond gave up its third round pick.

Might be a year of 3-4 delisted free agents helping the kids until we go again at the 2018 draft.

I'd like to look at a few second string ruckmen that aren't getting the ruck minutes they want at AFL level.
Jake Spencer
Billy Longer (I know we will be the third club, but hes about to break out)
Dawson Simpson
Sam Naismith
Reilly O'Brien (fair result to get this guy off adelaide after they took Jacobs, maybe part of a gibbs trade with 1st rounder)
Jackson Trengrove (Free agent)
Matther Lobbe (Ryder back takes his spot when i think he should play more minutes with the 3rd man up gone)
Braydon Pruess (Lets get him before Goldstein hands it over, be tough to get him out of North)

Bolded is the one i really want

 

[La Dispute]

Doesn't stand out at GWS? Had some brilliant games when I was watching.

In comparison to Shiel, Ward, Coniglio, Kelly or even Scully, not as much.