List Mgmt. 2018 NAB AFL Draft: November 22nd & 23rd

[Half Back Pocket]

Just throwing it out there. If the saints decide to draft one of the King brothers, do the saints pull the trigger and trade Paddy to someone like the cats?

I really do believe the cats would be prepared to part with pick 12 (if positions stand as they are). They are in need of a long term replacement for Hawkins, have the quality in the midfield to hit him up and they have shown that they are prepared to pay overs for trade targets.

I really have a soft spot for Paddy but would strongly consider such a trade. The Kings look more suited to the modern game, this could be a limited opportunity to have the chance to pick a top quality KPF so early in the draft and having a pick around the 12 range would allow us to pick up someone like Hill or Collier-Dawkins.

Just thinking what a future best 22 would look like in such a scenario:

B: Rice, Austin, White
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Webster
C: Billings, Acres, Sinclair
HF: Battle, King, Long
F: Hill, Membrey, Gresham
R: Hickey/Longer*, Clark, Steven

Int: Steele, Freeman, Ross, Phillips

*Not settled on either TBH. Both have their flaws. I'd be inclined to try and trade in a late 2nd round pick and pass that onto the Lions for Stef Martin if they are willing to take it and Martin wants to return to home. Could get another 2 years from him at the top level and draft a project ruckman.

The spanner in the works would be if the gold campaigners have two picks before us and select both King brothers.

Yes, would do it in a heartbeat. Trade Bruce for pick 25-ish, trade a ruck for pick 30-ish
Bring in Sloane, King, Hill, pick 25, pick 30.

Move forward with King, Battle, Marshall and Membrey

 

[gringo2011]

Ok i am 60 years of age and never played footy at any senior level.
I have followed St.Kilda for 55 of those years, but religiously for my love of this great game of Aussie Rules i watch(TV) or listen (Radio) to as many games as i possibly can.So i think i have SOME knowledge of this game.
Enter season 2018.
Can someone on this Forum please tell me how on earth all the experts on every radio station and TV Channel tell us all that Carlton have a better list than St.Kilda.
They are a disgrace

Better list but terrible mentally. We are an poor list but at least have a bit of a heart beat. Carlton are a terrible club as far as decision making goes. They were a club that could always buy up talent in the old days and they still haven't adjusted to the socialist draft system. They really are a mystery as to why they are so bad. Their senior core is still very good, their GWS talent should be good and their kids have a couple of true elite players but for what ever reason they suck. I think the dwarf has a game plan that is too complicated for the kids which doesn't help.

 

[gringo2011]

The knee is my only concern re Max King. Otherwise I'd be all for it if we considered him best available.

If that means shuffling the decks and offloading even both Bruce and Paddy in the near future then so be it.

Need elite talent period.

I think King looks a lot more like Westhoff, he's very mobile and twists and turns like a 2 meter Steven Milne. Take away that ability because of his knee and add 30 kgs of muscle and I worry that what he has isn't as dominant. Could be wrong though. I remember seeing Bont and Cripps and thinking they'd struggle being too tall for mid and too short for KP. Likened them to Andreas Everett.

 

[Ricmel]

Just throwing it out there. If the saints decide to draft one of the King brothers, do the saints pull the trigger and trade Paddy to someone like the cats?

I really do believe the cats would be prepared to part with pick 12 (if positions stand as they are). They are in need of a long term replacement for Hawkins, .

At the moment, given a choice who would you keep, McCartin or Battle.

I’m going to opt for Battle. Comfortably. I think he was pick 37.

Paddy having been pick 1 a few years ago really has no bearing on what he is worth today. On exposed form against senior AFL players, I would think any club would question whether he should be on an AFL list.

Pick 12? For me only if you found a club that would be stupid enough to do a Lee type deal. And we already have him.

 

[gringo2011]

I like the thinking but the counter point would be that our midfield wouldn’t deliver it properly. A top mid can make an average forward look better through delivery.

I’m still all in on Rankine for us.

Blues and Lions take Walsh & Lukosious.

Suns take the King twins with their pick and the Lynch compo.

We get Rankine at 5 to rotate with Billings, Acres and Gresh on ball.

Yeah our best games are when a spread of goal kickers all contribute. He's as close to Stephenson as there is in this draft. De Goey, WHE and Stephenson have reinvigorated Collingwood and made what was a team that struggled into a challenger. I would rather that set up than one dominant tall forward. It allows you o trap the ball in your front half too. Same with the Tigers.

 

[BarkerFan]

At the moment, given a choice who would you keep, McCartin or Battle.

I’m going to opt for Battle. Comfortably. I think he was pick 37.

Paddy having been pick 1 a few years ago really has no bearing on what he is worth today. On exposed form against senior AFL players, I would think any club would question whether he should be on an AFL list.

Pick 12? For me only if you found a club that would be stupid enough to do a Lee type deal. And we already have him.

Paddy has no real trade value I'm afraid
Look what Josh Schache got and he was younger, so exposed form was harder to judge..
Paddy has plenty of exposed form and based on that, his trade value is low

btw I would take Battle over Paddy

 

[Savage Kent]

Paddy has no real trade value I'm afraid
Look what Josh Schache got and he was younger, so exposed form was harder to judge..
Paddy has plenty of exposed form and based on that, his trade value is low

btw I would take Battle over Paddy

I believe to the right club Paddy does have value. If he can get to a club with a damaging midfield and first class development/coaching, he can really thrive. Great clubs know how to magnify a player's strengths and mask their weaknesses. West Coast's midfield made an average forward like Quentin Lynch a 60+ goal a season key forward.

 

[VDS66]

Yes they do in my opinion. I think everyone at the club is under the microscope including coaches & players. Trout getting punted suggests the list build has flaws & we may look to clean the decks & move on some players that still have value. With regard to Paddy, I think we would be happy to keep him however if a club enquired about him & offered a mid-late first round pick I reckon we’d facilitate the trade. There’ll be some surprises this off season imo. Not many safe. Billings could also be traded if the right offer is received. I’m gonna try not to get to attached to players cos they are all on notice imo. Leathlean going through the club with a fine tooth comb.

Exactly how I see it.

Can't wait to see who the "over rated" players are.

Have to be brutal if we are serious as a club.

 

[Joffaboy]

Are we talking about Lynch? Why wouldn’t they get pick 4? He will 100% be band one with the money he’s being offered

The though is they will match to force a trade meaning two picks and players or a combo of both

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[Joffaboy]

I believe to the right club Paddy does have value. If he can get to a club with a damaging midfield and first class development/coaching, he can really thrive. Great clubs know how to magnify a player's strengths and mask their weaknesses. West Coast's midfield made an average forward like Quentin Lynch a 60+ goal a season key forward.

Think this is correct. Look how much better he looked v Dees with the correct forward set up for him.

Reckon with Battle and Membrey there he was so much more dangerous.

Also will depend on what rule changes occur.

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[BigMonty]

Exactly how I see it.

Can't wait to see who the "over rated" players are.

Have to be brutal if we are serious as a club.

If you go to the Port v Saints thread posters are saying get rid of Longer Paddy Weller and Newnes.

If we want them out as they have little to no value other clubs are not about to pay much for them.

In reality we have no one deserving of a first rounder that is under the pump other than Billings. If Ess come knocking and he wants to go then Ess first rounder is a fair deal.

I cannot imagine Geelong moving on their frdp for Paddy other than to upgrade with a player to GC/us/WBD to get King.

No one would want either of our rucks on exposed form. Hickey may be killing it in the VFL but Longer is preferred. The club may be silly sometimes but they are not totally stupid. A pick outside 35 is the best we can hope for either of them.

Newnes inj cloud and Weller tallent cloud are not going to get us much. Bruce the same... not enough exposed form.

If Roberton and more likely Koby retire then we have 2 delistings before we look at Wright Minchington. That makes a minimum of 4 players with our 3rd pick in the 60s does not bode well for wholesale delistings.

Last night showed with Gresh and Clarke clearly Saints should get best player in draft rather than downgrade to the likes of an Acres and Dunstan combo.

We win if we can get a Free Agent that adds to our list and is a straight up selection into best 22. Good luck there.





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[SaintsSeptember]

Paddy has no real trade value I'm afraid
Look what Josh Schache got and he was younger, so exposed form was harder to judge..
Paddy has plenty of exposed form and based on that, his trade value is low

btw I would take Battle over Paddy

Paddy may still come good , and its all we can hope for.
As you say, he's not worth trading.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I believe to the right club Paddy does have value. If he can get to a club with a damaging midfield and first class development/coaching, he can really thrive. Great clubs know how to magnify a player's strengths and mask their weaknesses. West Coast's midfield made an average forward like Quentin Lynch a 60+ goal a season key forward.

Yeah but no-one will make a big trade for him.
Lynch wasn't a big trade. Schultz wasn't a big trade.
It could well be worth a team trying to get Paddy, but its not worth us shopping him around because we'd get nothing.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you go to the Port v Saints thread posters are saying get rid of Longer Paddy Weller and Newnes.

If we want them out as they have little to no value other clubs are not about to pay much for them.

In reality we have no one deserving of a first rounder that is under the pump other than Billings. If Ess come knocking and he wants to go then Ess first rounder is a fair deal.

I cannot imagine Geelong moving on their frdp for Paddy other than to upgrade with a player to GC/us/WBD to get King.

No one would want either of our rucks on exposed form. Hickey may be killing it in the VFL but Longer is preferred. The club may be silly sometimes but they are not totally stupid. A pick outside 35 is the best we can hope for either of them.

Newnes inj cloud and Weller tallent cloud are not going to get us much. Bruce the same... not enough exposed form.

If Roberton and more likely Koby retire then we have 2 delistings before we look at Wright Minchington. That makes a minimum of 4 players with our 3rd pick in the 60s does not bode well for wholesale delistings.

Last night showed with Gresh and Clarke clearly Saints should get best player in draft rather than downgrade to the likes of an Acres and Dunstan combo.

We win if we can get a Free Agent that adds to our list and is a straight up selection into best 22. Good luck there.







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People get it arse about.
We don't make the team stronger by getting rid of players.
We make the team stronger by getting better players.
SOMETIMES, we need to get rid of players to get better players.
Unless someone offers up a decent trade for Longer, he's unlikely to be delisted.
Even if he's our second or third ruck option.

 

[JimmyMann]

Just throwing it out there. If the saints decide to draft one of the King brothers, do the saints pull the trigger and trade Paddy to someone like the cats?

I really do believe the cats would be prepared to part with pick 12 (if positions stand as they are). They are in need of a long term replacement for Hawkins, have the quality in the midfield to hit him up and they have shown that they are prepared to pay overs for trade targets.

I really have a soft spot for Paddy but would strongly consider such a trade. The Kings look more suited to the modern game, this could be a limited opportunity to have the chance to pick a top quality KPF so early in the draft and having a pick around the 12 range would allow us to pick up someone like Hill or Collier-Dawkins.

Just thinking what a future best 22 would look like in such a scenario:

B: Rice, Austin, White
HB: Coffield, Carlisle, Webster
C: Billings, Acres, Sinclair
HF: Battle, King, Long
F: Hill, Membrey, Gresham
R: Hickey/Longer*, Clark, Steven

Int: Steele, Freeman, Ross, Phillips

*Not settled on either TBH. Both have their flaws. I'd be inclined to try and trade in a late 2nd round pick and pass that onto the Lions for Stef Martin if they are willing to take it and Martin wants to return to home. Could get another 2 years from him at the top level and draft a project ruckman.

The spanner in the works would be if the gold campaigners have two picks before us and select both King brothers.

Cats would gobble up Paddy I'd say, as they would be weary of Hawkins' retiring soon. 30 in a couple of weeks and they know that were Hawkins to miss chunks of next year, their premiership window would almost jam close.

Problem for me is St Kilda are not the sort of team to concede they drafted poorly and often persist regardless, especially considering he went #1. Reckon Ben King looks like more versatile than Max but an ACL is always a worry. If we don't get one of Rankine, Ben or Max with Pick 3 or 4 then I'll be absolutely spewing. Need all the help we can get through the midfield and forward line, as Paddy plus Dunstan/Acres/Billings are not yet the dominant players we used our first round draft picks to get. Go really hard at Gaff, McGovern and Sloane first and if any of them stick we won't have to worry too much about who we have to trade to get elite talent.

 

[Mowman]

Paddy has no real trade value I'm afraid
Look what Josh Schache got and he was younger, so exposed form was harder to judge..
Paddy has plenty of exposed form and based on that, his trade value is low

btw I would take Battle over Paddy

Schache was coming back to Vic no matter what I thought

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yes they do in my opinion. I think everyone at the club is under the microscope including coaches & players. Trout getting punted suggests the list build has flaws & we may look to clean the decks & move on some players that still have value. With regard to Paddy, I think we would be happy to keep him however if a club enquired about him & offered a mid-late first round pick I reckon we’d facilitate the trade. There’ll be some surprises this off season imo. Not many safe. Billings could also be traded if the right offer is received. I’m gonna try not to get to attached to players cos they are all on notice imo. Leathlean going through the club with a fine tooth comb.

If it could fall as Billings for pick 8 plus some change, and Paddy for 12 then we'd be mad not to do it.

 

[Joffaboy]

People still want to trade Billings?

You don't get better by trading your best players.

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[triggering bro]

If it could fall as Billings for pick 8 plus some change, and Paddy for 12 then we'd be mad not to do it.

Yup. Something not quite right about Billings. Does some brilliant things at times however it’s the intangibles that frustrate. He reminds me of Jack Watts, sadly.

 

[ScrappyDo]

People still want to trade Billings?

You don't get better by trading your best players.

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He just worries me. I think he's a downhill skier and always likely to want to go to the bombers if we feels things aren't fair or too tuff. The "nice boy" policy is total BS, and JB is to me the poster boy for it in so many ways. I'd swap him for another Hunter Clark in a heartbeat.

 

[theprospect]

If we can get Rankine to the club in the draft, wow. Imagine being our membership department (contrary to Gary Lyon's belief) with Rankine, Gresham, Clark and Billings at your disposal to sell a future of hope. Get Sloane or McGovern in as well and we look a hell of a lot better very, very quickly.

 

[Sainter_487]

Is there any possibility of picking up a ruck with a later pick in the draft?

 

[STK2020]

Is there any possibility of picking up a ruck with a later pick in the draft?

Jordan Roughead ?
Shit ruckman but can play roles and is a tough competitor.

 

[borderbarry]

I would use our first pick on the best mid available.. I would trade out to get another later lst round pick, to use on maybe Bailey Williams, the best ruckman who has a great leap, and can also play forward. Similar to the Kings. He is listed at 198cm, but as a 17 yr old I am sure he will grow to over 200cm.

 

[Human Person]

I like the thinking but the counter point would be that our midfield wouldn’t deliver it properly. A top mid can make an average forward look better through delivery.

I’m still all in on Rankine for us.

Blues and Lions take Walsh & Lukosious.

Suns take the King twins with their pick and the Lynch compo.

We get Rankine at 5 to rotate with Billings, Acres and Gresh on ball.

I Don’t fully agree, Sinclair, Ross, Billings and Gresh can all hit up a lead or kick it to advantage, Steven can shank kicks but he can bullet them as well at times. And prior to this year Newnes was pretty good at it.

I’ve heard commentators previously comment on Paddy’s leading patterns and say they didn’t usually work, that he should be doing repeate short leads rather than one 40 meter lead.

The forward line worked better last year when Bruce was contesting most entries. Didn’t clunk many but didn’t have many marked against him either, always had the athleticism to get to the contest and at least bring it to ground.

Paddy (as much as I have wanted him to succeed) has always struggled just making it to the contests repeatedly. As his endurance has constantly been questioned.

Despite Kings height he’s still athletic and has great endurance. If his knee isn’t too bad he shouldn’t struggle as much as paddy to make it to contests and use his speed to create better options to kick to.