2018 Trade and FA thread (opposition supporters post in Trade Hypotheticals thread)

[Nunez]

If the boys further up the field can learn to kick the ball to his advantage.
Then, well..... Happy days!

The opposition will be pissed when Charlies kicking 10 a game from Joe The Goose goals*



*except in the rain.

 

[dlanod]

How's that "placeholder" status going for you dlanod ?

It is open later in the year. QED.

 

[briztoon]

dlanod could you please unlock the draft thread please, with the TAC cup and State leagues about to start, we can now start talking about potential draftees performances.

And the national academy games aren’t far off either.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.

In both games so far we've been able to kick to space and allow him a race against defenders. For a team that is not historically great at picking targets in congestion, that's a brilliant relief valve to have. In each of those situations (unless I'm misremembering) he either won the ball or kept his feet and forced a pressure situation or stoppage. On a dry deck, some of those chases will turn into goals. Even where they don't, that allows us to set up our defensive structure to lock the ball in 50, which we've been doing well.

Yes it'd be better if his kicking returned to 2016 levels, where I reckon he was using the ball effectively if not damagingly. That said, I reckon he's a fairly low-risk recruit (he brings speed and pressure at minimum and has been fairly durable so far in his career) with substantial upside. I don't think 12 is huge overs for that.

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.
Kevvo I don’t mind getting Cameron ,but how can u be comfortable with the deal when I remind you (i will put the trade into context ) of how clubs have treated our talent. Utter contempt Elliot Yeo pick 28,Sam Docherty pick 33
Polec (correct me if i am wrong 22,34,48, ) port rec polec and pick 21 from giants and Giants got pick.14 from port.we could not even get pick 14 or 14 and 21. It just does not make me feel uncomfortable,it makes me want to puke. Amateur hour at the house of Noble. Something was used but it definitely was not brains. I just don’t know how you can say that with a straight face without laughing.

 

[carnthemlions]

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.

In both games so far we've been able to kick to space and allow him a race against defenders. For a team that is not historically great at picking targets in congestion, that's a brilliant relief valve to have. In each of those situations (unless I'm misremembering) he either won the ball or kept his feet and forced a pressure situation or stoppage. On a dry deck, some of those chases will turn into goals. Even where they don't, that allows us to set up our defensive structure to lock the ball in 50, which we've been doing well.

Yes it'd be better if his kicking returned to 2016 levels, where I reckon he was using the ball effectively if not damagingly. That said, I reckon he's a fairly low-risk recruit (he brings speed and pressure at minimum and has been fairly durable so far in his career) with substantial upside. I don't think 12 is huge overs for that.

He turned a few forays forward that would normally be easily rebounded into wins for us on the weekend even when badly outnumbered, it makes such a difference when defenders know they have no time to get rid of the ball.

 

[WA Lion]

L

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.
Kevvo I don’t mind getting Cameron ,but how can u be comfortable with the deal when I remind you (i will put the trade into context ) of how clubs have treated our talent. Utter contempt Elliot Yeo pick 28,Sam Docherty pick 33
Polec (correct me if i am wrong 22,34,48, ) port rec polec and pick 21 from giants and Giants got pick.14 from port.we could not even get pick 14 or 14 and 21. It just does not make me feel uncomfortable,it makes me want to puke. Amateur hour at the house of Noble. Something was used but it definitely was brains. I just don’t know how you can say that with a straight face without laughing.

Lets not go down this road. People will just get irritable again.

That trade was 2017, this is the 2018 thread so time to look ahead.

 

[a mayes ing]

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.
Kevvo I don’t mind getting Cameron ,but how can u be comfortable with the deal when I remind you (i will put the trade into context ) of how clubs have treated our talent. Utter contempt Elliot Yeo pick 28,Sam Docherty pick 33
Polec (correct me if i am wrong 22,34,48, ) port rec polec and pick 21 from giants and Giants got pick.14 from port.we could not even get pick 14 or 14 and 21. It just does not make me feel uncomfortable,it makes me want to puke. Amateur hour at the house of Noble. Something was used but it definitely was not brains. I just don’t know how you can say that with a straight face without laughing.

For starters, we have 5 players wanting out all who were out of contract iirc. Lucky to get that much l reckon. Cameron was under contract. Also those players were unknown quantities who hadn' really proven that much at senior level. Polec, Longer, Karnezis and Doc had all been injured/done nothing for the time they were here. Only Yeo had done any amount of work and we probably should have gotten more from him. Cameron has shown what he can do in a team that went all the way to the GF. Not saying he is pick 12 worthy but we wouldn't have picked Forgarty regardless because of go home issues. It is no coincidence that he lasted 12, as all other teams left him.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

For starters, we have 5 players wanting out all who were out of contract iirc. Lucky to get that much l reckon. Cameron was under contract. Also those players were unknown quantities who hadn' really proven that much at senior level. Polec, Longer, Karnezis and Doc had all been injured/done nothing for the time they were here. Only Yeo had done any amount of work and we probably should have gotten more from him. Cameron has shown what he can do in a team that went all the way to the GF. Not saying he is pick 12 worthy but we wouldn't have picked Forgarty regardless because of go home issues. It is no coincidence that he lasted 12, as all other teams left him.[/QUOT)

Point i am making is within the context as stated by myself pick 12 was way overs.the club should have been smart and waited 1 more year when he was off contract. One year goes pretty quickly.Could we have not held fire for just one year.? If Cameron really wanted to come, one year ( we r not talking 2 or 3 years here) goes pretty quickly. Like i said i have no problems getting cameron. To put it another way - nice idea poor execution. And i am not saying that we should have picked Forgarty .what i am saying i would have gone to the draft with pick 12. What we offered for Cameron was in my opinion fair and very reasonable. i just feel other clubs are taking advantage of Our position which is grossly unfair. Weak clubs such as us need protection against vultures constantly picking off their talent. .The afl needs to step up here ,big time with enforcement powers to arbitrate a fair and reasonable outcome acceptable to both parties and players.There must be a level playing field with special protection given to weaker clubs. The AFL is gutless on this issue and need to be held accountable.

Point I am making is within the context as stated by myself pick 12 was way overs.the club should have been smart and waited 1 more year when he was off contract. One year goes pretty quickly.Could we have not held fire for just one year.? If Cameron really wanted to come, one year ( we r not talking 2 or 3 years here) goes pretty quickly. Like I said I have no problems getting cameron. To put it another way - nice idea poor execution. And I am not saying that we should have picked Forgarty .what I am saying I would have gone to the draft with pick 12. What we offered for Cameron was in my opinion fair and very reasonable. I just feel other clubs are taking advantage of Our position which is grossly unfair. Weak clubs such as us need protection against vultures constantly picking off their talent or paying way overs like we have a gun to our head.The afl needs to step up here ,big time with enforcement powers to arbitrate a fair and reasonable outcome acceptable to both parties and players.There must be a level playing field with special protection given to weaker clubs. The AFL is gutless on this issue and need to be held accountable. I am one ,of no doubt many, sick and tired of constantly getting screwed.

 

[Requiem]

For starters, we have 5 players wanting out all who were out of contract iirc. Lucky to get that much l reckon. Cameron was under contract. Also those players were unknown quantities who hadn' really proven that much at senior level. Polec, Longer, Karnezis and Doc had all been injured/done nothing for the time they were here. Only Yeo had done any amount of work and we probably should have gotten more from him. Cameron has shown what he can do in a team that went all the way to the GF. Not saying he is pick 12 worthy but we wouldn't have picked Forgarty regardless because of go home issues. It is no coincidence that he lasted 12, as all other teams left him.

I remember several West Coast fans sulking that they had paid overs for Yeo.

 

[Requiem]

Point i am making is within the context as stated by myself pick 12 was way overs.the club should have been smart and waited 1 more year when he was off contract. One year goes pretty quickly.Could we have not held fire for just one year.? If Cameron really wanted to come, one year ( we r not talking 2 or 3 years here) goes pretty quickly. Like i said i have no problems getting cameron. To put it another nice idea poor execution. And i am not saying that we should have picked Forgarty .what i am saying i would have gone to the draft with pick 12. What we offered for Cameron was in my opinion fair and very reasonable.

You should try to capitalize your I's.

Thanks.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

You should try to capitalize your I's.

Thanks.

Typing is not my forte

 

[dlanod]

dlanod could you please unlock the draft thread please, with the TAC cup and State leagues about to start, we can now start talking about potential draftees performances.

And the national academy games aren’t far off either.

Mmmm...

"dlanod Thread unlocked Monday at 1:29 PM"

 

[Kevvo]

Point I am making is within the context as stated by myself pick 12 was way overs.the club should have been smart and waited 1 more year when he was off contract. One year goes pretty quickly.Could we have not held fire for just one year.? If Cameron really wanted to come, one year ( we r not talking 2 or 3 years here) goes pretty quickly. Like I said I have no problems getting cameron. To put it another way - nice idea poor execution. And I am not saying that we should have picked Forgarty .what I am saying I would have gone to the draft with pick 12. What we offered for Cameron was in my opinion fair and very reasonable. I just feel other clubs are taking advantage of Our position which is grossly unfair. Weak clubs such as us need protection against vultures constantly picking off their talent or paying way overs like we have a gun to our head.The afl needs to step up here ,big time with enforcement powers to arbitrate a fair and reasonable outcome acceptable to both parties and players.There must be a level playing field with special protection given to weaker clubs. The AFL is gutless on this issue and need to be held accountable. I am one ,of no doubt many, sick and tired of constantly getting screwed.

I think you overestimate our freedom to improve slowly and are way overstating the extent of overs, if any. It’s reductive, but the guy just kicked 5 goals in a preliminary final (more than the 3 that Fogarty just kicked in the JLT which has everyone so steamed up). Let’s not pretend this is some crazy deal.

Also, comparison to the GH5 is pointless. The club was in disarray and we were trying to get what little we could from a dire situation.

 

[Brett C]

I'm definitely more comfortable with the Cameron trade than most others. I reckon he has the scope to create a fundamentally new source of scoring for us.
Kevvo I don’t mind getting Cameron ,but how can u be comfortable with the deal when I remind you (i will put the trade into context ) of how clubs have treated our talent. Utter contempt Elliot Yeo pick 28,Sam Docherty pick 33
Polec (correct me if i am wrong 22,34,48, ) port rec polec and pick 21 from giants and Giants got pick.14 from port.we could not even get pick 14 or 14 and 21. It just does not make me feel uncomfortable,it makes me want to puke. Amateur hour at the house of Noble. Something was used but it definitely was not brains. I just don’t know how you can say that with a straight face without laughing.

Seriously dude you are so worked over stuff from 5 years ago. You can't compare trading in Cameron to losing the other players with the clubs culture at the time in the toilet and going backwards. All of those players were out of contract as well if I recall correctly so it was accept what we can and move on. It's now time for you to move on.

Cameron is 1 piece of a much bigger puzzle and provides a lot of things the side doesn't have at the moment including speed and defensive pressure. Skills wise he's not going to set the world in fire but he will add a new dimension to the side. Giving up pick 12 for a proven player with another 8-10 years left in him is not a stretch.

Have a look at our list management in the last 3-4 years and other than Schache you can't really say the team has screwed up in the last few years.

A look at previous #12 picks shows you're hardly guaranteed a player that will be on your list in 5 years time let alone a superstar.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

I think you overestimate our freedom to improve slowly and are way overstating the extent of overs, if any. It’s reductive, but the guy just kicked 5 goals in a preliminary final (more than the 3 that Fogarty just kicked in the JLT which has everyone so steamed up). Let’s not pretend this is some crazy deal.

Also, comparison to the GH5 is pointless. The club was in disarray and we were trying to get what little we could from a dire situation.

Unfair comparison really comparing apples vs oranges .fogarty has just started his career this year compared to Cameron with far more years experience. If you want to compare do like for like

 

[Lionsrbest2]

Seriously dude you are so worked over stuff from 5 years ago. You can't compare trading in Cameron to losing the other players with the clubs culture at the time in the toilet and going backwards. All of those players were out of contract as well if I recall correctly so it was accept what we can and move on. It's now time for you to move on.

Cameron is 1 piece of a much bigger puzzle and provides a lot of things the side doesn't have at the moment including speed and defensive pressure. Skills wise he's not going to set the world in fire but he will add a new dimension to the side. Giving up pick 12 for a proven player with another 8-10 years left in him is not a stretch.

Have a look at our list management in the last 3-4 years and other than Schache you can't really say the team has screwed up in the last few years.

A look at previous #12 picks shows you're hardly guaranteed a player that will be on your list in 5 years time let alone a superstar.

Never was against Cameron ( refer previous comments if you want to quote ) just the price paid.

 

[Kevvo]

Unfair comparison really comparing apples vs oranges .fogarty has just started his career this year compared to Cameron with far more years experience. If you want to compare do like for like

Obviously, but how are you then comparing Cameron’s value to a hypothetical pick 12?

 

[winged1]

Obviously, but how are you then comparing Cameron’s value to a hypothetical pick 12?

And a pick 12 (Fogarty) who we wouldn't have taken.

 

[Lionsrbest2]

I think you overestimate our freedom to improve slowly and are way overstating the extent of overs, if any. It’s reductive, but the guy just kicked 5 goals in a preliminary final (more than the 3 that Fogarty just kicked in the JLT which has everyone so steamed up). Let’s not pretend this is some crazy deal.

Also, comparison to the GH5 is pointless. The club was in disarray and we were trying to get what little we could from a dire situation.

The club was in disarray and we were trying to get what little we could from a dire situation.
You got that 100% correct,meanwhile over at the AFL they just sat by ,gutless as usual when it comes to Brisbane and slowly watched a train wreck evolve. Club are to blame as well ,don’t get me wrong but the afl doing nothing PRICELESS with immense Sarcasm. Just like priority picks another example of how much the AFL love Brisbane!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lionsrbest2]

Obviously, but how are you then comparing Cameron’s value to a hypothetical pick 12?

Dianod may have to help me on this one , since you raised an hypothetical. Could the club have traded pick 12 for a future pick in a so called super draft.Pick 12 for a pick we deemed advantageous to us that may have been more useful this year than last.So not necessarily picking a player with pick 12 but getting a pick this year ,in the so called super draft ,that would allow us to either pick a player or use as part of a trade deal to advance our pick into one far better.

 

[WA Lion]

In an attempt to get this thread back on track.... here is the list of 2018 free agents according to AFL website:

Richard Douglas
David Mackay
Andy Otten
Rory Sloane
Brodie Smith
Rohan Bewick
Ryan Lester
Marc Murphy
Kade Simpson
Jarryd Blair
Alex Fasolo
Tyson Goldsack
Ben Reid
Josh Thomas
Tom Bellchambers
Hayden Ballantyne
Michael Johnson
David Mundy
Aaron Sandilands
Cameron Guthrie
George Horlin-Smith
Jarrod Harbrow
Tom Lynch
Tom Nicholls
Shaun Burgoyne
Taylor Duryea
Paul Puopolo
Ryan Schoenmakers
Brendan Whitecross
Neville Jetta
Tom McDonald
Shaun Atley
Scott Thompson
Sam Wright
Justin Westhoff
Reece Conca
Ben Griffiths
Shaun Grigg
Dylan Grimes
Bachar Houli
Sam Gilbert
Heath Grundy
Jarrad McVeigh
Nick Smith
Andrew Gaff
Shannon Hurn
Mark LeCras
Scott Lycett
Eric Mackenzie
Jeremy McGovern
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Liberatore
Dale Morris
Jordan Roughead
Mitch Wallis

Sloane, Lynch, Tom McDonald, McGovern and Gaff look likely to demand the most interest

 

[Lions Lions]

What would you think it would take dollars and contract length wise to make a serious crack at Max Gawn in free agency.


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[Lions Lions]

I'm thinking 5 year deal .... 1.1m per year????
Melb may offer him a four year $850-950k per year deal. To get him to interstate you'd have to throw an extra 200k a year and probably an extra year in contract security.


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[Lions Lions]

Hope Melbourne finish 9th this year, Gawn might jump ship.


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[Lions Lions]

Apologies didn't realise Gawn had reigned with Melb, I totally missed that news.


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