Mega Thread 2019 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread #2

[mike91]

Geez you’ve become a whiney little bitch Mike. I said I can see the potential and it’s an interesting discussion, with varying views.

You deliberately tried to aggregate me in another thread, now you unnecessarily insult me? Think you need to relax, those types of immature comments are highly uncalled for mate

 

[Inveigh Slang]

Have people here lost the plot? Cerra is developing nicely and IMO has comfortably shown more than LDU, Dow and probably Rayner. Not many 20 yr olds starting in the midfield in the AFL and he looks comfortable at that level. It takes time for players to develop into full time mids, ie see Tucker. Tucker is finally showing he belongs and he’s been on the list for an additional 2 years.

Give Cerra another 2 years playing midfield and he will be an absolute gun, if not sooner. I know he missed a couple of kicks this weekend but generally his skills and particularly his decision making is top shelf. To my eye though he is looking comfortable already, 2 games into his midfield career.


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If top 5 pics dont burst onto the scene immediately some people give up on them.

 

[Taylor]

You deliberately tried to aggregate me in another thread, now you unnecessarily insult me? Think you need to relax, those types of immature comments are highly uncalled for mate

I agree. We can do without going after each other for our bitch views. Let's keep it civil.

 

[Joao]

Cerra's hands and vision are amazing, that is stuff you can't teach. He'll start finding the ball eventually. Had no problem as a junior and lets not forget its a new system and he's been playing half back/forward for the last two years. Even then, he wasn't actually bad in either game.

 

[stax on the mull]

I am still upset Ross Lyon rotted Tarberner at peel in 2017 and 2018 when he was playing good footy at peel and didn't play him at the Dockers even when tabs was the only available full forward

????Matthew Taberner - WAFL games in 2018 - 1.

 

[Square Peg]

Cerra excites me like few players on our list

 

[Puregold]

People need to allow for young players to develop. Some Dockers fans are an impatient lot with the way they write off players.
mundy was crucified in his first few years for being slow. Now we know his considered approach to the game is one of his greatest strengths. Early picks are always the target. Logue, Cerra, even cox coping it here.
conversely later picks are titled project players and we moan when they are not given more of a chance or another year on the list. Ruffles, sibasido, etc

 

[Ysaye]

People need to allow for young players to develop. Some Dockers fans are an impatient lot with the way they write off players.
mundy was crucified in his first few years for being slow. Now we know his considered approach to the game is one of his greatest strengths. Early picks are always the target. Logue, Cerra, even cox coping it here.
conversely later picks are titled project players and we moan when they are not given more of a chance or another year on the list. Ruffles, sibasido, etc

Thanks - for mine this is a good post. O would add a bit more on Cerra (which will make me sound like an apologist), but equally applies to a number of other talents on our list including Sturt, Valente and maybe even Serong and Henry (Young I think will have little slowness in uptake).

For mine I have always related Cerra to Mundy in that they are both great awareness, positioning and quick thinkers, good kicks, taller types who have okay endurance and not great speed. The issue for Mundy in those early years was endurance; he could hardly go in the midfield or on the wing for long. People complained he was laconic, looked slow and frustrated he didn't get enough of the ball. Also he was Victorian.

If you look at his 2006 stats, he averaged 15 possessions a game, and in 2007 (his third year) it was the same or just bit less. Actually Cerra is at that same mark, although for the start of his 3rd year, Cerra is already hitting a few more key indicators including getting in the top 6-7 spots in the 2020 time trial. It is worth comparison to Darcy Tucker as flavour of the month and you will see Cerra is ahead there in terms of number of possessions at comparative second years. It is not until year 4 or 5 where Mundy or even Tucker start to put decent numbers (over 20 possessions) up (and Tucker's 2019 numbers are skewed towards the start of the year).

I think the other thing is that not all posessions are worth the same. If you look at Cerra's "bad" game on the weekend, IMO a lot of his disposals put others out in huge advantage and resulted ultimately in goals, whereas (for example in comparison) many of Brayshaw's were either backwards or sideways. This is not denegrading Brayshaw's contribution; he has and will win more of the ball and put on more pressure, but in terms of offensive action, a Cerra possession counts for more than a Brayshaw. Just as it did for a Mundy versus Barlow possession.

Likewise I get that people expect Sam Walsh type numbers early on but these are actually highly exceptional and are also tempered by the quality and the opportunity that has been afforded in a fairly weak team (you are more likely to play in the centre where you will naturally get more of the ball).

My expectation is that Cerra can get an average of 16-17 possessions a game playing as a midfielder alternating wing this year; and that's fine if the general quality of possession is high, which I expect it will be.

 

[salim malik]

Have people here lost the plot? Cerra is developing nicely and IMO has comfortably shown more than LDU, Dow and probably Rayner. Not many 20 yr olds starting in the midfield in the AFL and he looks comfortable at that level. It takes time for players to develop into full time mids, ie see Tucker. Tucker is finally showing he belongs and he’s been on the list for an additional 2 years.

Give Cerra another 2 years playing midfield and he will be an absolute gun, if not sooner. I know he missed a couple of kicks this weekend but generally his skills and particularly his decision making is top shelf. To my eye though he is looking comfortable already, 2 games into his midfield career.


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Cerra will be ok but there is a 20yr old starting in the midfield and looking more than comfortable and we have him. Brayshaw will be our Joel Selwood. Andy is a long way in front of Adam imo.

 

[summerthebat]

Has anyone actually declared Cerra a bust?

Posters are entitled speculate on his body of work to date, his performances from game to game and his prospects.

 

[theGav56]

I think Cerra is coming along fine, but I am also pleased that we have Valente and Serong on the list as high ceiling inside midfield prospects as well.

 

[Ysaye]

Has anyone actually declared Cerra a bust?

Posters are entitled speculate on his body of work to date, his performances from game to game and his prospects.

Depends what you mean by "bust":

-Underwhelming and underperforming even in the Marsh series.

Where is Cerra at? He’s been underwhelming so far for a highly rated junior and both his Marsh games this year have been ok at best. He’s obviously still developing but he’s played 40 games so should be getting close to comfortable at the level. What’s his ceiling?

- Not met (the supporter's) expectation.

Cerra has not met expectation .. will he with a new game plan & playing in his preferred position .. ask me in 3 months.

- Should be playing for Peel, "lost it".

I think Cerra needs 10 games at Peel playing as an inside mid. He simply needs to learn how to find more of the footy. I think he's lost all of his instinctive footy ability and needs to find it again.

- Is paid too much, cheated the club in the deal.

He is also on ALOT of money for a young player, being a top 5 pick in a bottom 4 team his manager leveraged bad PR of him not signing an extension to get the extra dollars.

Are some of the negatives from a range different posters. I agree that they are entitled to their opinion. But equally (and particularly with respect to), subjective elements like :expectations", one can and possibly should compare (where possible) against other examples to provide an objective component.

 

[Galapagoose]

Depends what you mean by "bust":

-Underwhelming and underperforming even in the Marsh series.


- Not met (the supporter's) expectation.



- Should be playing for Peel, "lost it".



- Is paid too much, cheated the club in the deal.



Are some of the negatives from a range different posters. I agree that they are entitled to their opinion. But equally (and particularly with respect to), subjective elements like :expectations", one can and possibly should compare (where possible) against other examples to provide an objective component.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Where's your objective component to your subjective gibberish comments and out of context quoting.

 

[Galapagoose]

Has anyone actually declared Cerra a bust?

Posters are entitled speculate on his body of work to date, his performances from game to game and his prospects.

This is exactly it!

The large majority see huge potential with Cerra and want him to become a great player. He's hardly a whipping boy yet.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Where's your objective component to your subjective gibberish comments and out of context quoting.

Not quite sure why you have a issue with his post, he pointed out the clear examples of those (like yourself) who think he isn’t performing as well as he should be for a best 22 spot, and suggested comparing against other examples of similar scenarios is the best way to limit bias in something like expectations. He used the example of where Mundy was at himself a couple pages back to explain his position that Cerra is performing well.

With a couple of notable exceptions which derail the discussion, the comments responding to those who think Cerra isn’t going THAT well have been reasoned and civil. A good debate - I don’t see Ysayes are any different

 

[more_of_bito]

Surely the King Twins and closeness to Brayshaw from juniors sure the saints are chasing him strongly to get the three together over Cerra

 

[Joao]

Surely the King Twins and closeness to Brayshaw from juniors sure the saints are chasing him strongly to get the three together over Cerra

I highly doubt it. Leaving aside the fact that I'm not sure "playing with mates" is actually a thing and that Ben recently re-signed that I highly doubt that sort of thing would ever enter Andy's head.

 

[Righteo]

I highly doubt it. Leaving aside the fact that I'm not sure "playing with mates" is actually a thing

It isn't lol. Family yes, mates nah.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

It isn't lol. Family yes, mates nah.

You just wait, next year is the year Conilgio joins Hawthorn to play with ol' mate Jaeger

 

[Spirit Level]

I honestly see Cerra being a Pendlebury like player for us

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Surely the King Twins and closeness to Brayshaw from juniors sure the saints are chasing him strongly to get the three together over Cerra

Why would Brayshaw be more interested in playing with a few guys he played with as a kid than the group he's been playing with for the last two years?

 

[heypenny]

[Apologies, this post was meant for the injury thread - mods happy if you want to move]

I agree that a review should take place and one is happening.

A few things to add though.

One, there is an element of responsibility on the players to be eating well, stretching well and doing the right things in preparation and recovery.

Two, some of the injuries could not have been prevented by ANY S&C manager. Hogan’s issues, Mundy’s biking accident, Hamling’s ankle, Brayshaw being stamped on; and there are reports that Acres kicked the ground during his follow through which is pretty unlucky.

Three, all teams get injuries, that’s football, and we could potentially have everyone back by round 5 (except for Hamling).

Four, we are all assuming - we don’t know what’s going on behind doors. The same people complaining about Hill not playing in the first match are probably the same supporters putting the boot in now. Fans are impatient and irrational - you can see the same frustrations about the S&C team being cautious with Young.

That said, I’m happy the club are doing a review.

 

[Taylor]

Why would Brayshaw be more interested in playing with a few guys he played with as a kid than the group he's been playing with for the last two years?

Same reason as every year. They pay him more money with better long term security.

 

[greatgatsby]

You just wait, next year is the year Conilgio joins Hawthorn to play with ol' mate Jaeger

Coniglio's signed long-term at GWS because he wants to captain a team that plays finals for 5 years. Needless to say that's not happening at Hawthorn - bottom four this year for mine.

 

[FreoRicci]

Happy for Cerra. Think developed him right the last two seasons with the aim of midfield in his third season. Perfectly on track. Build his tank to play longer in the middle. Brayshaw, Cerra and Tucker will be great to watch.