MRP / Trib. 2019 MRP Chook Lotto - Carlton Tribunal News & Reports

[sosos]

People still bitter about the result on the weekend.

I agree with the club's decision. The guy needs a rest and a vainglorious appeal to satisfy the sabre rattlers? No point.

 

[Pater44]

So, because everyone else is doing the wrong thing we should too? You raise children?

What is naivety is expecting things to change if we get people into influential roles. Fitzpatrick was second in command at the AFL; it help us any? We had most of the panel on Before the Game following us; we've still got two of the three on the Front Bar. We've got Judd in FC. That helping us any?

You want to know what gets the AFL media onside? Winning. Let's do more of that, and less whinging about how unfair things are.

What is not fair is the proposed solution, ie getting Carlton people into positions of power/influence in order to use that power/influence to favour ourselves. It is one thing to observe a corrupt system; it is quite another to be complicit both in its corruption and the continuation of it.

Clean it up. Remove the external voices, from the Geelongs, the Richmonds, the Essendons and of course the bloody Hawthorns, and make the tribunal/match review something to be respected instead of 'chook lotto'.

See that is where you are naive Gethelred. Naive to think that it will ever be a system that doesn’t have biases. Unless you clear the entire deck in the media and AFL who has any affiliation with or has ever supported an AFL club. It’s not going to happen. People working at the AFL and the media who report on it either follow it, have barracked for it or have worked in the industry. Some have done all three. To think that this has no effect on the way people think or will sway their decision is crazy.

And yet again we see one of our players handed a ban in which other players get off. Just because they refuse to except it.

As for the Carlton people in the media you are talking about. Juddy is the only person with any real strength. I love Andy Maher and Sam Pang but neither of them are what you call strong when it comes to Carlton. Most of their topics come at Carlton’s expense in order to get a laugh. Never once have I ever heard them stand up and question anything.

It’s no coincidence that the strong Victorian clubs are the ones with people in the media and AFL pumping their team up and putting other teams down. And to think that you will ever stop this is the same stupidity in thinking that it doesn’t matter...




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[sosos]

See that is where you are naive Gethelred. Naive to think that it will ever be a system that doesn’t have biases. Unless you clear the entire deck in the media and AFL who has any affiliation with or has ever supported an AFL club. It’s not going to happen. People working at the AFL and the media who report on it either follow it, have barracked for it or have worked in the industry. Some have done all three. To think that this has no effect on the way people think or will sway their decision is crazy.

And yet again we see one of our players handed a ban in which other players get off. Just because they refuse to except it.

As for the Carlton people in the media you are talking about. Juddy is the only person with any real strength. I love Andy Maher and Sam Pang but neither of them are what you call strong when it comes to Carlton. Most of their topics come at Carlton’s expense in order to get a laugh. Never once have I ever heard them stand up and question anything.

It’s no coincidence that the strong Victorian clubs are the ones with people in the media and AFL pumping their team up and putting other teams down. And to think that you will ever stop this is the same stupidity in thinking that it doesn’t matter...




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Maher goes hard in his weekly podcast but in his other gigs, he does tread pretty softly.

 

[Fat Kent]

What were the risks if we took it to the tribunal?

 

[Aphrodite]

What were the risks if we took it to the tribunal?

Downgraded to 1 week (maybe).

 

[Robbo's my hero]

The club would have given it a very close look and decided on this course of action. Couldn’t fudge the facts. It was there for all to see. Slight concern on this matter is that it’s a contact sport and tackles like this are going to happen frequently. If the guy you tackle in the same manner and he gets up and walks away then everyone’s happy and nobody gets punished. It’s a fine line between guilt and innocence. Similar to that fine line when you attempt to hit and miss the object of your intent.

 

[Pater44]

Nup, no benefit in not challenging, this reaks of where the club is at mentally...

Exactly. We want our players to stand up and fight fight fight to win each week. Yet the first opportunity we have to stand tall as a club and fight we say. “Ok, whatever you say Michael”.

Absolute disgrace!!! 2 weeks. If he played for Richmond, Collingwood, hawthorn, Geelong, actually any other team bar Carlton and he would have gotten off. And if he hadn’t then I’m damn sure they would have questioned it...


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[Jacko67]

People still bitter about the result on the weekend.

I agree with the club's decision. The guy needs a rest and a vainglorious appeal to satisfy the sabre rattlers? No point.

3 points in response to your post

1. A poor decision is a poor decision, nothing to do with being 'bitter' about a result or sabre rattling.

2. Regardless of whether or not he needs a rest do you think he needs to play no competitive football (i.e. matches) for the best part of 3 weeks. Maybe a week off, maybe managed game time with the NB for a week but certainly not 3 weeks off. We are only 4 games in to the season and as far as i know he is not injured.

3. The main point is in my opinion the decision to ban him was wrong. I have never found in my life, business or otherwise, that accepting poor/bad decisions from people/organizations that can make these decisions that affect you and that you can challenge/contest in an appropriate forum is a good idea.

Do you think that by not challenging this ban that the next time we have a player under review by the MRP that the flog Christian will think well since Carlton were so nice about the last shit decision i made i'll be nice to them now. Of course not he'll just think they won't challenge so i can go as hard as i like. We need to make sure he thinks hell i'd better get this right or this is just going to be a complete ball ache and the more of his decisions that are challenged and proven to be wrong the more chance that the AFL might get rid of the tosser.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Reckon Setters was due a spell anyway - suspension could be a bit of a blessing in disguise. He's in the side for the long term, but in the short term I think there are better options.

Get JSOS in, let him and Charlie split a midfield and forward role 50/50.
Kreuzer in for Lobbe.
Cunners should play if fit. LoB to make way given it looks like he was brought in prematurely and should probably continue his development in the VFL.

Simpson, Weitering, Plowman
Marchbank, Jones, Newman
Walsh, Curnow, Fisher
Kreuzer, Cripps, Petrevski-Seton
Silvagni, Casboult, Cuningham
Murphy, McKay, McGovern
INT: Dow, Curnow, Thomas, Gibbons

 

[Pater44]

Maher goes hard in his weekly podcast but in his other gigs, he does tread pretty softly.

I listen to Maher each day. All I ever hear him say is “I’m trying to show that I can be unbiased.” I have never heard him once stand up for the club and take the hard stand. He can talk underwater but is to easily reigned in. He is so unbiased that he refuses to talk about Carlton cause he barracks for them.


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[Blue and Blue]

3 points in response to your post

1. A poor decision is a poor decision, nothing to do with being 'bitter' about a result or sabre rattling.
2. Regardless of whether or not he needs a rest do you think he needs to play no competitive football (i.e. matches) for the best part of 3 weeks. Maybe a week off, maybe managed game time with the NB for a week but certainly not 3 weeks off. We are only 4 games in to the season and as far as i know he is not injured.
3. The main point is in my opinion the decision to ban him was wrong. I have never found in my life, business or otherwise, that accepting poor/bad decisions from people/organizations that can make these decisions that affect you and that you can challenge/contest in an appropriate forum is a good idea. Do you think that by not challenging this ban that the next time we have a player under review by the MRP that the flog Christian will think well since Carlton were so nice about the last shit decision i made i'll be nice to them now. Of course not he'll just think they won't challenge so i can go as hard as i like. We need to make sure he thinks hell i'd better get this right or this is just going to be a complete ball ache and the more of his decisions that are challenged and proven to be wrong the more chance that the AFL might get rid of the tosser.

I think if we talk about fairness and what not the fact you call someone you know nothing about a flog ends your argument and proves its just sour grapes.
This stuff was happening in the 70's. Nothing new. If we were top of the ladder it would be as nothing.

Not saying its right mind you. Just that it is what it is.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I’m not going to argue with you Stamos.
FWIW i think you are one of the better posters on this board but i think this is a very serious issue the game has to address.

Basically both players were falling to ground in the tackle one arm was pinned the other wasn't so this absolutely exonerates Setterfield imo .
In no way was it a sling tackle similar to others we've all seen .

Once again a penalty is handed out on the consequences .
We see this kind of incident numerous times each game when players are tackled to the ground but this time Powell's head hit the ground .
It's a contact sport accidents WILL happen from time to time .
Another thing is there was no intent from Setterfield to hurt Powell 2 weeks .
Dustin Martin clear intent to hurt Kennedy of GWS 1 week .
The system is a shambles .

 

[Gethelred]

See that is where you are naive Gethelred. Naive to think that it will ever be a system that doesn’t have biases. Unless you clear the entire deck in the media and AFL who has any affiliation with or has ever supported an AFL club. It’s not going to happen. People working at the AFL and the media who report on it either follow it, have barracked for it or have worked in the industry. Some have done all three. To think that this has no effect on the way people think or will sway their decision is crazy.

And yet again we see one of our players handed a ban in which other players get off. Just because they refuse to except it.

As for the Carlton people in the media you are talking about. Juddy is the only person with any real strength. I love Andy Maher and Sam Pang but neither of them are what you call strong when it comes to Carlton. Most of their topics come at Carlton’s expense in order to get a laugh. Never once have I ever heard them stand up and question anything.

It’s no coincidence that the strong Victorian clubs are the ones with people in the media and AFL pumping their team up and putting other teams down. And to think that you will ever stop this is the same stupidity in thinking that it doesn’t matter...




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I have several things to say.

Firstly, I find it deeply interesting that, instead of attacking what I'm saying at all, or trying to justify your argument on some kind of a moral basis, you choose to attack me with 'naive'. Decided to skip over the moral - the battle you cannot win - and instead go on the attack much?

Secondly, I'm not naive. I understand the depths to which a corrupted system can sink. Unlike you, I simply refuse to sink down to the level that it would take to make the behaviour we see a viable option; to do so would be to succumb, to follow a sham sport that is only barely up from wrestling, and I assure you that if such became the case I would not be following AFL any longer.

And finally, your belief - and it is a belief, rather than anything based on evidence - that the system cannot be changed for the better. You clearly believe that it can be changed; otherwise, you would not be advocating placing people with spines (yet, not quite enough spine to do the right thing and to do their jobs free of influence or exterior pressure) in prominent positions to advocate on behalf of the club. As part of my degree, I've had to study systems quite thoroughly - with a specific bearing on bureaucracies, and how to break them up - and I know for a fact that it can be done with the right leadership, with the right people entering into stewardship at the top, and with a new broom sweeping clean in just the right way.

If anything, it's attitudes like yours that are naive, and in a dangerous way. By believing that things cannot be changed, you contribute to creating a self-perpetuating system; you corrupt the system in your favor; another person concludes that the system is corrupt in your favor and that it cannot be changed, so they corrupt it in their direction; another person concludes that the system is corrupt...

 

[Jacko67]

I think if we talk about fairness and what not the fact you call someone you know nothing about a flog ends your argument and proves its just sour grapes.
This stuff was happening in the 70's. Nothing new. If we were top of the ladder it would be as nothing.

Not saying its right mind you. Just that it is what it is.

In relation to my knowledge of him with regards to how he does his job on/as the MRP (which is the only knowledge i have of him or care about) then yes i think he is a flog but if you like a more pc way of putting it he makes bad decisions and is incompetent.

Don't care if it was happening in the 1870's a bad decision is a bad decision and should be called out for what it is and not just meekly accepted and as to our ladder position that is irrelevant, once again a bad decision is a bad decision. I really don't think losing him for a couple of weeks will have much if any affect on how we go and a rest may help (it may not also) but that is up to the club to decide not an incompetent flog at the afl.

 

[Opine]

I don't think the system is corrupt by any means. What it is though is somewhat ambiguous; in the sense that on field rules have traditionally been governed by more definitive, prescribed, rules; rather than by the concept of reasonableness inherent in a duty of care. I think this is what is causing frustration amongst supporters. However, I think it will make for a much safer game.

 

[Dadda Dave]

Dangerflog should of got a week imo..
What he done a got away with is a shit look for the game aswell..

 

[Aphrodite]

Dangerflog should of got a week imo..
What he done a got away with is a shit look for the game aswell..

Good bloke discount and don't forget Steve Hocking

 

[Pater44]

I have several things to say.

Firstly, I find it deeply interesting that, instead of attacking what I'm saying at all, or trying to justify your argument on some kind of a moral basis, you choose to attack me with 'naive'. Decided to skip over the moral - the battle you cannot win - and instead go on the attack much?

Secondly, I'm not naive. I understand the depths to which a corrupted system can sink. Unlike you, I simply refuse to sink down to the level that it would take to make the behaviour we see a viable option; to do so would be to succumb, to follow a sham sport that is only barely up from wrestling, and I assure you that if such became the case I would not be following AFL any longer.

And finally, your belief - and it is a belief, rather than anything based on evidence - that the system cannot be changed for the better. You clearly believe that it can be changed; otherwise, you would not be advocating placing people with spines (yet, not quite enough spine to do the right thing and to do their jobs free of influence or exterior pressure) in prominent positions to advocate on behalf of the club. As part of my degree, I've had to study systems quite thoroughly - with a specific bearing on bureaucracies, and how to break them up - and I know for a fact that it can be done with the right leadership, with the right people entering into stewardship at the top, and with a new broom sweeping clean in just the right way.

If anything, it's attitudes like yours that are naive, and in a dangerous way. By believing that things cannot be changed, you contribute to creating a self-perpetuating system; you corrupt the system in your favor; another person concludes that the system is corrupt in your favor and that it cannot be changed, so they corrupt it in their direction; another person concludes that the system is corrupt...

I find it amazing that mentioning you are “naive” to think this way you feel I am attacking you. Was it not you previously who went on the attack and questioned that I would be good father? Really. You don’t know me and I can damn well tell you that I in being a father I am second to none.

You need to take a good hard look at yourself and the way you try belittle and attack everyone on here that doesn’t have the same view. Have you noticed how many arguments you have? Read through your posts. Just because you’ve “got a degree” and use big words in which you spent years upon years learning at university, paid for by mummy and daddy, doesn’t mean you are smart in life in general.

I would happily say that everyone is smart in what they decide to apply their time to. I may not “have a degree” or spent my time learning big words in order to argue with everyone but at least I have life experience. I know how things work. I know how people think. To think that anyone that has invested major emotion and effort into something, isn’t going to be biased in some way is naive. It’s a way of life.

Lastly. Never have I once insinuated that as a club we should infiltrate the realms of AFL, media, tribunal and so on in order to wrought the system. It’s about having a voice and making it a level playing field. At the moment it’s not a level playing field.

This is so much fun!!!


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[Aphrodite]

I find it amazing that mentioning you are “naive” to think this way you feel I am attacking you. Was it not you previously who went on the attack and questioned that I would be good father? Really. You don’t know me and I can damn well tell you that I in being a father I am second to none.

You need to take a good hard look at yourself and the way you try belittle and attack everyone on here that doesn’t have the same view. Have you noticed how many arguments you have? Read through your posts. Just because you’ve “got a degree” and use big words in which you spent years upon years learning at university, paid for by mummy and daddy, doesn’t mean you are smart in life in general.

I would happily say that everyone is smart in what they decide to apply their time to. I may not “have a degree” or spent my time learning big words in order to argue with everyone but at least I have life experience. I know how things work. I know how people think. To think that anyone that has invested major emotion and effort into something, isn’t going to be biased in some way is naive. It’s a way of life.

Lastly. Never have I once insinuated that as a club we should infiltrate the realms of AFL, media, tribunal and so on in order to wrought the system. It’s about having a voice and making it a level playing field. At the moment it’s not a level playing field.

This is so much fun!!!


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If you think 'this is so much fun', think again!

 

[slashin_velvet]

Thought they might try to get it down to one, but taking into account this cause and effect thing, not really surprised. Just wasn’t a good look for the game.

Rules him out of the Rising Star Award too.

Thanks for mentioning this....just cashed out my bets on him and at least got half my money back

 

[Gethelred]

I find it amazing that mentioning you are “naive” to think this way you feel I am attacking you. Was it not you previously who went on the attack and questioned that I would be good father? Really. You don’t know me and I can damn well tell you that I in being a father I am second to none.

What I meant when I said that was very much that what you were saying there was not what you would teach children, not that you were a poor father.

Your attitude given scant provocation, though, certainly makes me question your evenness of wit.

You need to take a good hard look at yourself and the way you try belittle and attack everyone on here that doesn’t have the same view. Have you noticed how many arguments you have? Read through your posts. Just because you’ve “got a degree” and use big words in which you spent years upon years learning at university, paid for by mummy and daddy, doesn’t mean you are smart in life in general.

And this is where we differ.

I've paid for my degree, which I only brought up because it has particular bearing on the topic under discussion. I don't attack people unless they go whole hog first, which you've done right here. I don't glorify my own intelligence, and if anything I'm taking a route which is point blank unintelligent here; it would be far easier to enter into this particular system with the aim of corrupting it further than it would be to change it. It would be the practical thing to do.

What it would not be is the right thing to do. Spare me your indignation and your inferiority complex, you buffoon.

I would happily say that everyone is smart in what they decide to apply their time to. I may not “have a degree” or spent my time learning big words in order to argue with everyone but at least I have life experience. I know how things work. I know how people think. To think that anyone that has invested major emotion and effort into something, isn’t going to be biased in some way is naive. It’s a way of life.

Lastly. Never have I once insinuated that as a club we should infiltrate the realms of AFL, media, tribunal and so on in order to wrought the system. It’s about having a voice and making it a level playing field. At the moment it’s not a level playing field.

You've complained about the lack of Carlton supporters doing what other clubs do, influence the system to their benefit. Is that not what you're getting at?

How dare I question you, or your motives? How dare I even presume to argue that you could be wrong? How dare I indeed!

 

[Chism]

They accepted the ban.

I'm really disappointed in the club.

Agree and are we taking our poor form from the field into the offices??

Seeoliously WTF and have a go as the suspension can not get any lengthier.

Dumb move.

 

[JustaBattler]

Total BS.

 

[ESKIE]

Michael Christian is a puppet, makes it up as he goes along...
2 weeks is BS it’s always the out come that determines the sentence, the guy was concussed didn’t come back on...therefore

Dangerfield should’ve got a week, is Christian scared of the Players Association?

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Why waste your time? If the club thought it was worth a risk it would have appealed. You don’t want people running the club who do things for the sake of it.