List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

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This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...
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wahooo said:
Because a bunch of nuffies have written off Hogan and Lobb, consigning them to the scrapheap. Glad that mob isn't in charge of our list management.
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Oh
Must admit I was/ am one of the Hogan doubters but have faith in Lobb as I actually have seen him play consistently well .
I was overly exuberant for a goal kicker who could play that lead up , work between the arcs type role ( Mihocek was the best rumour available at the time ) to join our forward set up .

Pretty much resigned to fact that we need to give Hogan some more time to click but F*** M* if he plays up again over summer show him the door . 👉Hopefully young Sturt has a strong pre-season
 
wayToGo_ said:
I will be very glad when we get through trade week not bringing in any players and losing none of our young up and comers.

Grab 5 players from the draft this year inc 2 NGA and a Cat B... then do similarly at next year's draft and I think we will pretty much have the balanced list we want.

Limit trade ins to high quality and free agents only.
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There comes a time when you need to stop just going to the draft every year though, haven't we had a few years now to do this. The key is identifying players that can thrive under a different coach and system but not cost you too much. Also getting rid of the C grade cloggers on your list which we still have a few of.
 
Since we last made finals...

2016 -
Trade: Hamling
Draft: Logue, Darcy, Cox, Ryan, Duman

2017 -
Trade: Wilson
Draft: Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden, Meek, Switkowski, Giro, Banfield

2018 -
Trade: Hogan, Lobb, Colyer
Draft: Sturt, Valente, Schultz, Bewley, Hughes (redraft), Watson

2019 -
Trade: Aish, Acres
Draft: Young, Serong, Henry, Frederick

Arguably a team of potential first 25 choice players in that list.

If there are any players available to trade that slot into the best first or second spot of those areas of the ground then I think we are poised to take advantage of a significant list of young talent now.
 

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wahooo said:
I view these kinds of statements in a similar vein to the 'draft best available' comments.

It means very little.

If there's a need and you can fill it on the cheap you do so. If there's a bloke out of form, maybe playing out of position at another club that our club thinks we can turn around, I'd hope they grab him on the cheap.

Aish is looking like a great get, a perfect example of a cheap trade for an average player that's (so far) paid off.

You can't field a team solely of A graders, you need role players too and the draft may not always be the best way to fill your needs, especially in the short term. Not to mention, there's many examples of these big trades for high quality types not working out.

There can be a lot of value in trading for average types, it's important not to completely rule out the idea.

Otherwise I agree with you, happy for a very quiet trade period and to invest in the draft.
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Ok, I'll spell out what I meant by that sentence. Our list isn't going to benefit from bringing in more fringe players - they just take up list spots and stifle the development of our youngsters. We either bring in players that will be best 22 (ie upgrades on what we have or will have) or we stick to the draft imo. And with the draft we should try and stick to the upper end so we are getting youngsters with a high chance of success.

I'm fine with the players we've brought in via trade to date as they provided a stop gap whilst our youngsters developed. But now that several of our youngsters are core to our best 22 we are now starting to delist some of those trade ins so grabbing more doesn't seem as beneficial, especially with restrictions to list sizes happening.

So actually my comment meant a lot more than how you butchered it. It was about being more selective about who we trade in because our biggest success this season was the development of our young draftees. So we should back in our development pathways because clearly they are seemingly working well, as is our drafting in the past few years.

Our current best 22 is made up of 18 x 1st and 2nd round picks (if you include Hogan and Wilson) - 9 of them were 1st round selections. The four that aren't are Ryan, Walters, Taberner and Hughes - all players we've drafted and developed. We have enough developing youth in every position to not have to create depth just for the sake of it.
 
An actual trade suggestion.
I think Blakely needs to be sat down and told - mate, sorry but you don’t have a future here. You’re behind Fyfe, Mundy, Brayshaw, Cerra, Serong, Tucker, (potentially) Valente, Walters, Acres as an inside mid. You need to look for opportunities somewhere else.

Trade to North, Essendon, Adelaide, GC - somewhere that needs a mature body around the ball. North have cut so deep, they have about 17 players left. Only Adelaide need points for Edwards, with GC being able to prelist a bunch of players.

Leaves North and Essendon as possibilities. Forget Essendon dick traders, so Blakely is North or GC bound, although not sure GC need him.

For me, I’d like to see us take 10, 28 to Geelong for 13, 18, 35, and deal with Blakely separately.
Take 2 first round picks, then see what we can do to swap 35, whatever we get for Blakely, our future 3rd into points for W&W.
 
Taylor said:
Since we last made finals...

2016 -
Trade: Hamling
Draft: Logue, Darcy, Cox, Ryan, Duman

2017 -
Trade: Wilson
Draft: Brayshaw, Cerra, Crowden, Meek, Switkowski, Giro, Banfield

2018 -
Trade: Hogan, Lobb, Colyer
Draft: Sturt, Valente, Schultz, Bewley, Hughes (redraft), Watson

2019 -
Trade: Aish, Acres
Draft: Young, Serong, Henry, Frederick

Arguably a team of potential first 25 choice players in that list.

If there are any players available to trade that slot into the best first or second spot of those areas of the ground then I think we are poised to take advantage of a significant list of young talent now.
Click to expand...
I agree. And fyfe won’t want the rebuild to peak when he’s past it.
 
If we can start winning clearances, not losing clearances, scoring from stoppages and not being scored against from stoppages we would be top four.

Sean Darcy is very important here, but we can't rely on him being there to win the ball out of the middle. Is our midfield going to take another step forward?

Can we inject an elite midfielder into our rotation? That will make us so, so, so much better.
 
wahooo said:
I view these kinds of statements in a similar vein to the 'draft best available' comments.

It means very little.

If there's a need and you can fill it on the cheap you do so. If there's a bloke out of form, maybe playing out of position at another club that our club thinks we can turn around, I'd hope they grab him on the cheap.

Aish is looking like a great get, a perfect example of a cheap trade for an average player that's (so far) paid off.

You can't field a team solely of A graders, you need role players too and the draft may not always be the best way to fill your needs, especially in the short term. Not to mention, there's many examples of these big trades for high quality types not working out.

There can be a lot of value in trading for average types, it's important not to completely rule out the idea.

Otherwise I agree with you, happy for a very quiet trade period and to invest in the draft.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing though, I agree that the "draft best available" is limiting as a mantra that would apply to every draft. That is not what we are talking about with fringe players. We are speaking about our current list profile - ie it is a specific case and not a generalisation. The exact opposite of "draft best available".

Aish wasn't a fringe player. He was B22 in a better side and in a position where we basically had nobody after trades. As we speak, we have AFL standard (ie fringe or better) players in every position. More fringe doesn't improve us. We need either better players or our players to improve.

Nobody said anything about having a team of A-graders.

wahooo said:
Because a bunch of nuffies have written off Hogan and Lobb, consigning them to the scrapheap. Glad that mob isn't in charge of our list management.
Click to expand...
Nobody has scrap heaped either. Both clearly need to lift a lot on their 2020 performance though and I think that is hard to argue with.

go_the_dockers said:
Can we win a flag with fyfe and Walters, or do we target the a flag with Brayshaw, cerra and co. ???
Click to expand...
The latter is far more likely. It could with Fyfe but most likely towards the end of his career.
 
Hi Folks, please excuse the intrusion.
Is Bewley a best 22 or have the young blokes passed him by.
I'm looking at him in a keeper league.
Cheers.
 
wayToGo_ said:
Ok, I'll spell out what I meant by that sentence. Our list isn't going to benefit from bringing in more fringe players - they just take up list spots and stifle the development of our youngsters. We either bring in players that will be best 22 (ie upgrades on what we have or will have) or we stick to the draft imo. And with the draft we should try and stick to the upper end so we are getting youngsters with a high chance of success.

I'm fine with the players we've brought in via trade to date as they provided a stop gap whilst our youngsters developed. But now that several of our youngsters are core to our best 22 we are now starting to delist some of those trade ins so grabbing more doesn't seem as beneficial, especially with restrictions to list sizes happening.

So actually my comment meant a lot more than how you butchered it. It was about being more selective about who we trade in because our biggest success this season was the development of our young draftees. So we should back in our development pathways because clearly they are seemingly working well, as is our drafting in the past few years.

Our current best 22 is made up of 18 x 1st and 2nd round picks (if you include Hogan and Wilson) - 9 of them were 1st round selections. The four that aren't are Ryan, Walters, Taberner and Hughes - all players we've drafted and developed. We have enough developing youth in every position to not have to create depth just for the sake of it.
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Apologies mate, pretty unfair to say I butchered your comment I wasn't have a crack at you.

You did say let's only trade in 'high quality players' there was no qualification on it or any elaboration. Significant difference between 'high quality' and the shift in this latter comment to let's trade in 'best 22 players', that's something I can get behind.

I agree that we should be selective about who we trade in and firmly believe each trade should be assessed on its merits.
 

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wahooo said:
Apologies mate, pretty unfair to say I butchered your comment I wasn't have a crack at you.

You did say let's only trade in 'high quality players' there was no qualification on it or any elaboration. Significant difference between 'high quality' and the shift in this latter comment to let's trade in 'best 22 players', that's something I can get behind.

I agree that we should be selective about who we trade in and firmly believe each trade should be assessed on its merits.
Click to expand...
I would go further than best 22. Must be a clear upgrade on existing player in 22 and must not hold back development of potential a grader.
 
wahooo said:
Apologies mate, pretty unfair to say I butchered your comment I wasn't have a crack at you.

You did say let's only trade in 'high quality players' there was no qualification on it or any elaboration. Significant difference between 'high quality' and the shift in this latter comment to let's trade in 'best 22 players', that's something I can get behind.

I agree that we should be selective about who we trade in and firmly believe each trade should be assessed on its merits.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is no value trading in someone marginally better than a fringe player. Especially (just for illustration purposes because I like him) a player like Hughes when we already have depth for that position. OR replacing Taberner with Brown. Some may see that as an upgrade, but, if it is, it is marginal at best.
 
Joao said:
You Phillips advocates should check the Pies board for their thoughts.

Also, can we stop mentioning fringe players from other clubs, especially clubs that aren't top 4. These blokes aren't getting games because they are not that good. We don't need fringe players, most of our list is that, we need good players that are definitively better than our players or there is no point.
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Bit of a blanket statement saying blokes that aren't getting games aren't any good. I remember Crowden missing games and getting dropped😂
 
theGav56 said:
Yes, there is no value trading in someone marginally better than a fringe player. Especially (just for illustration purposes because I like him) a player like Hughes when we already have depth for that position. OR replacing Taberner with Brown. Some may see that as an upgrade, but, if it is, it is marginal at best.
Click to expand...
Agree with this and one of the reason why there probably shouldn’t be much trading happening for us this year - I’m not seeing many guys available who fit that bill. Tom Phillips? No thanks. Zac Langdon? No way Jose.
cripps?Not realistic and far too costly.
we don’t need more Colyer types coming in. Even Conca/Blake Acres standard players would be debatable as trade ins this year. Id be happy with Jordan Clark or Bobby Hill if available at the right price, purely because of their youth and upside. Felt Hill showed a bit for GWS towards the end of the season.
But overall, draft is the way to go.
 
Dockeroo said:
Agree with this and one of the reason why there probably shouldn’t be much trading happening for us this year - I’m not seeing many guys available who fit that bill. Tom Phillips? No thanks. Zac Langdon? No way Jose.
cripps?Not realistic and far too costly.
we don’t need more Colyer types coming in. Even Conca/Blake Acres standard players would be debatable as trade ins this year. Id be happy with Jordan Clark or Bobby Hill if available at the right price, purely because of their youth and upside. Felt Hill showed a bit for GWS towards the end of the season.
But overall, draft is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Still a bit of water to flow under the bridge at this stage. Players may become available as Aish did. Sharp may need to come home.
 
go_the_dockers said:
Can we win a flag with fyfe and Walters, or do we target the a flag with Brayshaw, cerra and co. ???
Click to expand...
Excellent question and one I would like to hear a range of thoughts on

IMHO - if we miss that boat (2-3 years) then I reckon we are another 5 years till we have another crack

By that time our young guns will be getting some serious money options thrown at them from other clubs if they turn it as good as we think they are going to

within that 5 year space we will also have to maintain ( in physical presence , commitment and health ) the rest of the best 22 we have now which are nearly at their peak

Hence my nervousness to fix the forward line immediately and make hard calls if need be

I would love to hear JLo and Belly's vision of what is a realistic goal to aim for ( 2, 4 , 6 ????? )

Interested to hear others thoughts on this
 
Taylor said:
If we can start winning clearances, not losing clearances, scoring from stoppages and not being scored against from stoppages we would be top four.

Sean Darcy is very important here, but we can't rely on him being there to win the ball out of the middle. Is our midfield going to take another step forward?

Can we inject an elite midfielder into our rotation? That will make us so, so, so much better.
Click to expand...
Elite midfielder in what mould though? There's the Fyfe/Dusty power ball getter and often a rushed kick, A Danger/Judd that is built around speed and high skill or an inside Neale? Personally I think it's the speed we need. A player happy to run off and kick goals from the midfield rather than resting forward. What l hoped SHill would have been.
 
Madas said:
Excellent question and one I would like to hear a range of thoughts on

IMHO - if we miss that boat (2-3 years) then I reckon we are another 5 years till we have another crack

By that time our young guns will be getting some serious money options thrown at them from other clubs if they turn it as good as we think they are going to

within that 5 year space we will also have to maintain ( in physical presence , commitment and health ) the rest of the best 22 we have now which are nearly at their peak

Hence my nervousness to fix the forward line immediately and make hard calls if need be

I would love to hear JLo and Belly's vision of what is a realistic goal to aim for ( 2, 4 , 6 ????? )

Interested to hear others thoughts on this
Click to expand...
I’d settle for 5 flags in the next 7 years!
But seriously, One of the best phrases in football is “you never have as much time left as you think”
So I wouldn’t be waiting around for Brayshaw and cerra et al to be 25 or 26.
I believe we should be aiming for the top 4 next year. Let’s forget Fyfe and Walters for a bit who are definitely running out of time. Tabs, Hogan, lobb, Aish, Luke ryan, hamling, Pearce all need to get moving if they want to win things in their careers. All mid 20s plus from next season. They will be thinking the time is now. if injuries stay relatively clear, no reason we can’t at least compete for top 6 at the very least.
 
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