List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[Jeremias]

Bit late to get this one up and running - but new year, new thread.

And thanks to Lore we've got a shiny new spreadsheet with all the data you could possibly want.








Continued from here:-

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management

Yes, indeed it could be a multitude of reasons. I'm not sure it particularly means he didn't desire us but that either the trade couldn't be done or indeed he now just prefers to stay with the Swans (remember his Grandfather played for them). Doesn't also mean the trade is dead and buried...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[mochacinolatte]

The Dogs have had years to find their best midfield mix. We haven't.
I don't think the club care for another few years of experimentation.

Eh, I don't think the team will implode next year, base on the list age bracket we should be contending/playing finals for a good 5-8 years. Think we got plenty of time, but is more or less finding players you listed above who can exceed their expectation.

We have to get it as close to right before the start of next season and not just play players we deem to be good in positions they're unfamiliar with.
You can get away with the odd one here or there, but we can't expect many to make good. That's not sound.

I agree, we played Setterfield on the wing predominately last year, but more inside where we had more impact. Just gotta stop turning midfielders into full time forward/half backers.

 

[Aphrodite]

Decorated career set to conclude as divided Carlton weigh up tough call

Carlton are set to farewell much-loved veteran Kade Simpson but the club faces a difficult decision on Eddie Betts.

7news.com.au

Looks like Simpson is going to retire.

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management

With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side? Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season? Absolutely. Has the skills and showed he was wily enough to outsmart defenders in congestion yesterday. To...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Foucault1989]

Out curiosity, given his name gets frequently thrown up in discussion- what do people think that Petruccelle would add to our side, beyond being fast?
From my viewing - he plays scared, doesn't tackle, doesn't create opportunities and isn't a great user of the footy.

And just resigned for three years. Don't understand why he is even considered an option

 

[blues4flag]

Decorated career set to conclude as divided Carlton weigh up tough call

Carlton are set to farewell much-loved veteran Kade Simpson but the club faces a difficult decision on Eddie Betts.

7news.com.au

Looks like Simpson is going to retire.

Say it ain't so :-(

 

[iAsbestos]

Simmo nooo =[

 

[bigm386]

Say it ain't so :-(

Sadly I think it is time. Will be 37 early next year. His body has held up amazingly well.

We have Newman back next year also.

 

[TheKITC]

I may be in the minority on this, but a lot of talk in here about the small forwards have centered around their goal kicking numbers. Whilst it's obviously an important metric for a forward player, I would rather see emphasis placed on players who are able to tackle and be involved in scoring plays personally. If you ask me, scoring really hasn't been an issue for us on the whole, we have players who are offensively capable. The problem lies with the other parts of our game that don't allow these players to be in scoring positions. For example, our defensive pressure and tackling is awful, all around the ground. Our forward entries are at times awful too. When we go on the offensive and give our forwards/mids half decent opportunities at scoring, we aren't that bad. It's our delivery and work when we don't have the pill that is the cause for these avalanches of scores against us.

I personally would prefer someone who whilst still has an offensive game obviously, but is able to strongly contribute when the ball is on the deck, when the opposition have it and be able to be an important link in our scoring plays without having to be the one kicking it all the time.

 

[Burgers45]

Simmo's farewell game this week.

Blues veteran Kade Simpson set for farewell match

The Blues are set to farewell a club great, while another has their future hanging in the balance.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[Bokan]

Absolutely yes, but obviously on a much smaller contract.

Low base salary and a shed load of performance based incentives would be the go you'd think

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[DirtyLeeds]

I have prophesied that the pandemic has affected our captain almost more than any other player in the league. Something is not right, and though he has showed glimpses (especially when we were playing/staying in WA), he has not resigned yet, and heaven forbid may request to "go home". It's a reverse Judd, like Juddy i'm sure he'd put the team first and declare that he would only go to the team that offers Carlton the best deal.
What's he worth? Definitely two first round picks and a quality young player, not negotiable.
For me Freo are best placed, they will have a low pick this year, around 6/7, throw in next years 8-10ish, and one of Cerra or Serong.
Hypothetically gives us consecutive top ten picks which I would offer to the Giants for a straight swap for Kelly, plus their first round pick. We know they have some serious cap issues, would free up more than enough to keep Williams (who whilst he gets it turns it over as much as Simmo) and some of their up and comers.
I see this draft as being used Hawthorn like, send out the early picks to fill our gaps. Loosing Cripps means we are lacking a bull inside, Kemp has potential to develop into that role, but we need some experience in there now to complement the outside use we would now have, Walsh, Kelly and Martin. Graham from Richmond would be ideal, he is probably gettable for a Paddy Dow deal. For me Viney is the player who would be ideal, definitely has the leadership we'd need, would compliment our outside class, be worth the remaining first round pick this year. Would have two in next years draft to hang on to.
Eddie and Murph get one more year, but as back up and mentoring roles. Would not consider them first choice starters anymore.
Exits this year Kreuser, Lang, O'Dwyer, Moore, Polson, Cripps (traded), Dow (traded) Cas (free agent Brisbane?), Simmo (retired), O'Brien (traded for a late pick not used). This allows for a reduced list size.
in's this year Kelly, Viney, Graham, Gibbons(upgrade), Cotterall (upgrade), second round pick, third round pick.

Plowman Jones Docherty
Williamson Weitering (C) Newman
Cerra/Serong Viney Kelly
TDK Graham Walsh
Martin Charlie JSOS
Philip/Owie Harry McGovern

Gibbons, Newnes, Setterfield, Kemp

No second ruckman, Harry to do all ruck work inside forward 50, TDK stays out. Small forward a work in progress, could use the second pick on a speculative indigenous lad who Eddie could mentor. Fisher, SPS, Kennedy, Marchbank etc depth

Mind you this is the silver lining version, Crippa stays I just as happy. Would still make the big play for Kelly though not Williams.

 

[Bokan]

Regarding JSOS vs McGovern, I don't think there is a debate to be had, personally. Teague likes a three tall forward structure and whilst McGovern can be one of those, Silvagni simply cannot. He might bring the effort, football nous etc but he absolutely cannot play as a tall forward. He can't mark the ball as a leading tall, nor hold his ground to win one on ones. Additionally, bloke can't kick straight for goal - and he's one of many in that regard.

Reality is JSOS can't play the McGovern role, and as such I'm not sure he gets a gig in the forward line at all.

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[Blue__Balls]

Are you suggesting that its inappropriate of me to ask why he chose not to join CFC because I personally preferred he didn't?

Of course, I am. Because I believe that's what typically happens in effective negotiations; at least in the early stages while options are being designed to accommodate interests. But you're dismissing that as mere opportunistic narration on my part, In fact, you're doing what you're accusing me of doing, arent you BB?

Last year he wanted to come, this year he supposedly doesn't. There may be a multitude of reasons. I asked why. It doesn't need to be resolved, But the question merits being asked.

I'm suggesting that the way you've "asked" the question is seemingly very deliberately crafted as to suggest that the club messed up.

Which is laughable given you've been very deliberately suggesting that the club shouldn't even be pursuing him in the first place.

Last year he wanted to come to the club, the club wanted him, a price was agreed upon, but it fell through due to the unwillingness of Essendon to trade out Daniher. That resulted in Papley having to go and front up to his teammates at the start of the preseason - something that I doubt any player would relish.

So I find it highly unlikely that he would be publicly nominating any club this year unless a deal was agreed to by both clubs. Which in turn would mean that securing his nomination before agreeing on a price would be nigh impossible. Which therefore would mean that his decision to publicly request a trade or elect to stay would, in part, hinge on whether any club was willing to offer Sydney a price they were prepared to accept.

Papley choosing to stay is no more evidence that our recruiters failed to entice him than it is that our recruiters were unwilling to pay the price that Sydney would have demanded. Or that Sydney outright refused to trade him. Or that Papley himself has decided independently of external offers that he now wants to stay.

And yet...despite the myriad possibilities...you've leapt straight to "Maybe our "flash new recruiters" are shit and couldn't convince him and we should investigate that". Not your words, but absolutely the subtext.

 

[HARKER]

Eh, I don't think the team will implode next year, base on the list age bracket we should be contending/playing finals for a good 5-8 years. Think we got plenty of time, but is more or less finding players you listed above who can exceed their expectation.



I agree, we played Setterfield on the wing predominately last year, but more inside where we had more impact. Just gotta stop turning midfielders into full time forward/half backers.

I don't think we shall either, but we still have plenty of work to do to find what works best for the whole.

I know every team has similar issues, especially a young team...and I know I've put this forward many times, but.....no other team has as many premium picked draftees sitting in the wings; Dow, Stocker, O'Brien, Kemp, Philp, Kennedy....and then the injured Marchbank + CCurnow who haven't seen a game this year.

There's a lot of massaging to do to find what our best mix is, just yet.
The Bulldogs know what their best midfield looks like and have found homes for their other quality mids.

 

[Bokan]

With papley out of the picture we can turn out focus to other targets AND (possibly more importantly) don't have a situation like last year where due to waiting for the papley deal we are unable to move forward with other deals.


It's not all bad right....

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[Opine]

I'm suggesting that the way you've "asked" the question is seemingly very deliberately crafted as to suggest that the club messed up.

Which is laughable given you've been very deliberately suggesting that the club shouldn't even be pursuing him in the first place.

Last year he wanted to come to the club, the club wanted him, a price was agreed upon, but it fell through due to the unwillingness of Essendon to trade out Daniher. That resulted in Papley having to go and front up to his teammates at the start of the preseason - something that I doubt any player would relish.

So I find it highly unlikely that he would be publicly nominating any club this year unless a deal was agreed to by both clubs. Which in turn would mean that securing his nomination before agreeing on a price would be nigh impossible. Which therefore would mean that his decision to publicly request a trade or elect to stay would, in part, hinge on whether any club was willing to offer Sydney a price they were prepared to accept.

Papley choosing to stay is no more evidence that our recruiters failed to entice him than it is that our recruiters were unwilling to pay the price that Sydney would have demanded. Or that Sydney outright refused to trade him. Or that Papley himself has decided independently of external offers that he now wants to stay.

And yet...despite the myriad possibilities...you've leapt straight to "Maybe our "flash new recruiters" are sh*t and couldn't convince him and we should investigate that". Not your words, but absolutely the subtext.

Are you offended by the question itself, or by me for having asked it?

 

[Blue__Balls]

If the club makes the call on Simmo, then the same call should absolutely be made on Betts.

Simmo having more impact on games at the moment, but the time is right for the team to move on.

Betts losing his feet, fumbling and dropping marks far more than we'd like. Love his attitude, and no doubt he brings some leadership and organisation to the forward line (though how much has to be in doubt given our performances this year), but the skills have to be up to scratch.

Keep him on in an Indigenous support role, with the capacity to work with the forward line as a part-time assistant coach. But calling time on Simmo while retaining Betts looks far too much like favouritism from the coach.

 

[mochacinolatte]

With papley out of the picture we can turn out focus to other targets AND (possibly more importantly) don't have a situation like last year where due to waiting for the papley deal we are unable to move forward with other deals.


It's not all bad right....

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Thank goodness, finally I can stop reading people debating each other about trade hypotheticals for Papley.

 

[Eiffel 65]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...n/news-story/d1efb2591fa14548f8940c5b97730f54

Very happy about this

 

[Blue__Balls]

Are you offended by the question itself, or by me for having asked it?

Not offended at all.

Amused that you've leapt straight from not wanting Papley and being critical of suggestions that we should target him, to assuming the club recruiters are at fault for him staying in Sydney. Having a lovely little dip both ways.

I'll say it again. After what happened last year, next to no chance Papley was nominating a club without a deal being agreed to in principle. Him electing to stay in Sydney is no more indicative of failure on our part than it is our decision not to overpay for him, Sydney's decision to not trade him, or Papley's decision to remain in Sydney. Yet you evidently want to assume it's the former.

 

[chunkylover53]

Wonder what Neil's, Treloar, Kelly, Adams, Coniglio, etc.... builds are like?

You don't need to wonder, I can tell you.

Fisher is 177cm and 75kg

Neale = 177cm/85kg
Treloar = 181cm/81kg
Kelly = 183cm/77kg
Adams = 180cm/86kg
Coniglio = 182cm/87kg

In what world is Fisher built, or will ever be built like these blokes?? Thanks for proving my point further. He's going to have to make it as a small forward.

Before you bleat that he is similar weight to Josh Kelly - he is an elite runner, from what I can see, Fisher is a burst player.

 

[Opine]

Not offended at all.

Amused that you've leapt straight from not wanting Papley and being critical of suggestions that we should target him, to assuming the club recruiters are at fault for him staying in Sydney. Having a lovely little dip both ways.

I'll say it again. After what happened last year, next to no chance Papley was nominating a club without a deal being agreed to in principle. Him electing to stay in Sydney is no more indicative of failure on our part than it is our decision not to overpay for him, Sydney's decision to not trade him, or Papley's decision to remain in Sydney. Yet you evidently want to assume it's the former.

Do you find the question threatening?

 

[Eiffel 65]

You don't need to wonder, I can tell you.

Fisher is 177cm and 75kg

Neale = 177cm/85kg
Treloar = 181cm/81kg
Kelly = 183cm/77kg
Adams = 180cm/86kg
Coniglio = 182cm/87kg

In what world is Fisher built, or will ever be built like these blokes?? Thanks for proving my point further. He's going to have to make it as a small forward.

The other thing is that Kelly and Treloar who have smaller frames are exceptional endurance runners.

Fisher wouldn't be able to keep up with them for 4 quarters.

 

[Opine]

Not offended at all.

Amused that you've leapt straight from not wanting Papley and being critical of suggestions that we should target him, to assuming the club recruiters are at fault for him staying in Sydney. Having a lovely little dip both ways.

I'll say it again. After what happened last year, next to no chance Papley was nominating a club without a deal being agreed to in principle. Him electing to stay in Sydney is no more indicative of failure on our part than it is our decision not to overpay for him, Sydney's decision to not trade him, or Papley's decision to remain in Sydney. Yet you evidently want to assume it's the former.

Did Papely want to come to the Blues this year Blue Balls?

 

[BlueBlood15]

If the club makes the call on Simmo, then the same call should absolutely be made on Betts.

Simmo having more impact on games at the moment, but the time is right for the team to move on.

Betts losing his feet, fumbling and dropping marks far more than we'd like. Love his attitude, and no doubt he brings some leadership and organisation to the forward line (though how much has to be in doubt given our performances this year), but the skills have to be up to scratch.

Keep him on in an Indigenous support role, with the capacity to work with the forward line as a part-time assistant coach. But calling time on Simmo while retaining Betts looks far too much like favouritism from the coach.

Agree with this.

My understanding is that Eddie was brought to the club on a playing contract for 2020 and is contracted for an off field role in 2021. Eddie’s best attribute at the moment is his leadership and knowledge of the small forward position. Use that to develop our next small forward in an off field role next year. I’ve always loved watching Eddie but, if Simmo is done, so is he.