List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

..I just got a gut feeling that High pressure forwards in Honey and Philp would come on quicker to make our team more complete and successful

That would be great but can we wait? Should we wait?

I feel that the CFC are tired of waiting and from a commercial perspective, cannot afford to keep waiting.
In order to become a truly strong club, we have to start winning and making finals regularly, as otherwise the rich get rich and business becomes tougher.

We have many quality young players but maybe we're still not sure of how and when they'll come to being clear first-team picked players.

 

[TheRedPill]

Papley is a star and would’ve been great - but don’t forget we turned that pick into Kemp and Philp.

Philp is already receiving rave reviews and debuting well ahead of schedule. He’s rocketed ahead of a number of guys who were picked higher & have been around longer - admittedly not a great reflection on the others, but great for him.

Kemp has an insanely high ceiling. I’m viewing him as an unofficial 2020 top 5 pick PLUS he has the benefit of this whole season + next pre-season to learn and prepare for his 2021 debut. Very rare type of player, we just need him to stay healthy and get the best out of himself.

 

[HARKER]

Papley is a star and would’ve been great - but don’t forget we turned that pick into Kemp and Philp.

Philp is already receiving rave reviews and debuting well ahead of schedule. He’s rocketed ahead of a number of guys who were picked higher & have been around longer - admittedly not a great reflection on the others, but great for him.

Kemp has an insanely high ceiling. I’m viewing him as an unofficial 2020 top 5 pick PLUS he has the benefit of this whole season + next pre-season to learn and prepare for his 2021 debut. Very rare type of player, we just need him to stay healthy and get the best out of himself.

That's great to hear and we know you're talking about the likes of Dow, O'Brien and Stocker.

I guess the reason we're still talking about Papley, is because of the clear fit and the call from him last year, wanting to come to us.
That may have well changed, but I feel the name Papley will abound here, for some time yet,

 

[The Bighouse]

That's great to hear and we know you're talking about the likes of Dow, O'Brien and Stocker.

I guess the reason we're still talking about Papley, is because of the clear fit and the call from him last year, wanting to come to us.
That may have well changed, but I feel the name Papley will abound here, for some time yet,

Looks the part doesn’t Papley & the what if’s... Scoop said CFC botched that trade on Monday night by going too early (met with Bolton early doors) & not by the right channels, and will cost 2 x 1st’s you’d think moving forward.

LOB & Stocker hopefully get the message it’s time to shine in whatever areas they’re not putting forward but encouraging performances in the praccy’s.

Hopefully J. Honey can keep improving in the practice matches and have a bit of an impact up forward this year & beyond. F. Phillips also a good rookie pick with development scope & Owies is bobbing around as a small forward.

 

[Aphrodite]

That's great to hear and we know you're talking about the likes of Dow, O'Brien and Stocker.

I guess the reason we're still talking about Papley, is because of the clear fit and the call from him last year, wanting to come to us.
That may have well changed, but I feel the name Papley will abound here, for some time yet,

Won't be going away anytime soon.

 

[The Bighouse]

Papley is a star and would’ve been great - but don’t forget we turned that pick into Kemp and Philp.

Philp is already receiving rave reviews and debuting well ahead of schedule. He’s rocketed ahead of a number of guys who were picked higher & have been around longer - admittedly not a great reflection on the others, but great for him.

Kemp has an insanely high ceiling. I’m viewing him as an unofficial 2020 top 5 pick PLUS he has the benefit of this whole season + next pre-season to learn and prepare for his 2021 debut. Very rare type of player, we just need him to stay healthy and get the best out of himself.

On Kemp, where do you think is it likely he’ll be lining up once fit & ready to go?
Training with the defenders was he not, or hoping it’s a rotation policy in his learning?

 

[FoeverBlues]

That would be great but can we wait? Should we wait?

I feel that the CFC are tired of waiting and from a commercial perspective, cannot afford to keep waiting.
In order to become a truly strong club, we have to start winning and making finals regularly, as otherwise the rich get rich and business becomes tougher.

We have many quality young players but maybe we're still not sure of how and when they'll come to being clear first-team picked players.

We'll find out soon enough...small pressure forwards don't normally take long to find their feet especially with the tall set up and fast ball movings style we are playing at the moment

 

[FoeverBlues]

Won't be going away anytime soon.

Uber Cripps

 

[DangerousD]

In this upcoming draft, the swans would be well within their rights to set a price of two firsts or a first and a current member of the 22. They would probably ask for H.McKay and our first, before moving to H and our second.

I'm not saying it isn't doable. What we could offer (Marchbank and our first) would be a better loss for us in the short to medium term. All I'm saying is that they're f’ed if they let him leave. Losing him is akin to our losing Doc for two seasons, but forever. He's a barometer, a source of ridiculous goals, and at present their only AFL capable forward.

We either need to offer something they haven't considered, or offer something they haven't got. They're short KPP IMO, so that's where I'd start as we have (at least nominally a surfeit).

I was considering this last night, thinking along the lines of key position and how our lost is shaping going forward. I was thinking that our club need to decide the make up of our forward line and ruck department going forward. If Pit continue to improve, then its a total waste of time to have a developing ruck 3 years his junior in the reserves. I’m speaking of TDK, I see no way that we play Harry, Charlie, TDK and Gov in a forward line, this is after CAS is passed by. So where does that leave him?

Either this year or next, if he’s not getting a game, will listen to clubs who offer him one, but as he hasn’t played much, I’m not sure of his value, he and Marchbank are surplus to requirements currently and I doubt Marchbank would be keen on waiting for Jones to move before he gets a game.

It seems we have a lot to work with in terms of trades, I’m not sure why everyone is scared of the idea of trading 2 first round picks, as long as you get a 2nd rounder back, you are only downgrading the second first rounder by 10-14 spots. Considering how many firsts we busted on, we could have traded them all and been in a fantastic spot.

 

[FRUMPY]

I was considering this last night, thinking along the lines of key position and how our lost is shaping going forward. I was thinking that our club need to decide the make up of our forward line and ruck department going forward. If Pit continue to improve, then its a total waste of time to have a developing ruck 3 years his junior in the reserves. I’m speaking of TDK, I see no way that we play Harry, Charlie, TDK and Gov in a forward line, this is after CAS is passed by. So where does that leave him?

Either this year or next, if he’s not getting a game, will listen to clubs who offer him one, but as he hasn’t played much, I’m not sure of his value, he and Marchbank are surplus to requirements currently and I doubt Marchbank would be keen on waiting for Jones to move before he gets a game.

It seems we have a lot to work with in terms of trades, I’m not sure why everyone is scared of the idea of trading 2 first round picks, as long as you get a 2nd rounder back, you are only downgrading the second first rounder by 10-14 spots. Considering how many firsts we busted on, we could have traded them all and been in a fantastic spot.

They seem to have pretty big opinion of TDK - there is no hurry. Hell pitonet is 24 yrs old - TDK could easily be kept and developed for another 2 years and be cherry ripe to go as number 1 ruckman

 

[DangerousD]

I strongly believe both Hately and Caldwell will be clearly in their best 22 by years end and absolutely ready for 2021.

Hately gets a late call up last week for his 1st game of the year (8th overall) and gets 21 possessions and looked at home.

Caldwell is tracking nicely and doesnt look out of place only 4 games into his career.

Both are 19 and ooze talent. If we dont go after these 2 (both out of contract) id be surprised. 2 years in the system and ready to take the next step imo. These 2 will be stars, trust me. Get them at their cheapest before we have no chance or they cost a fortune.

Of course our team would look young by adding these two. But in 2 or 3 years, them added to Cripps, Walsh and Martin, we should have a very strong midfield.

Currently, our midfield doesnt bat deep. People are crying out for Wines, but with Murphy all but done, Ed not too far behind, we will be extremely light on. We still need a few more talented mids to come on and i think these 2 could be a steal. Just my opinion

Even if both players turn out to be really good or even great, I’m not sure how another tall mid fits in with our other really tall mids. By also adding two more mids, it would mean that a few of our existing players like Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Fisher have not made it.
Im a lot more conservative now on how long it takes kids to be ready to play consistently, both the layers you mentioned are in their second year of footy. Dow and O’Brien are into their third and are currently not best 22, Stocker is in his second and seems a way off, SPS is four years in as is very inconsistent. So whilst they might be talented, unless we get a senior body in, then I think it’s a step backwards in the short term.

 

[katmanblue]

And there is so much to play out. We don’t even know where our first is. Two firsts would be too much but pick 9 I would be happy with, well we turned pick 9 into two firsts last year.

What about our 2 firsts (2020/2021) with their (2021) 2nd coming back. So you'd guess it would be pick 8-12 going their way and 20-25 coming back?

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[katmanblue]

We’ve lost matches where we won on clearances, and time after time we’ve seen our f50 entries amount to nothing but a quick rebound. So guys like pap and Martin are a big need for our group. I think we should chase pap even if we have to pay more ($ or picks) this year.

Yep.

Guys who can finish the good work everyone else puts in are so important.

Gotta be deflating putting all that effort in. Doing your job for no reward cause the guys further up the ground can't convert.

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[iAsbestos]

Papely is probably almost 2 first rounder territory now (which i'd still pay).

To me fiorini is the guy. He can be like what lyons was to the lions. Good solid all round midfielder who isn't gonna have the superstar expectations that would come with a wines/gaff etc.

Fiorini will be cheap too

 

[DangerousD]

They seem to have pretty big opinion of TDK - there is no hurry. Hell pitonet is 24 yrs old - TDK could easily be kept and developed for another 2 years and be cherry ripe to go as number 1 ruckman

But isn’t Pit our best pick up? He is looking good on limited viewing, if he continues to improve and become a locked in ruck, it’s silly to have another ruck of similar age in the twos.

Even though I like the Gov, it’s due to TDKs position now, that it just doesn’t make any sense why we recruited him, TDK would have been able to play as a third tall and chop out in the ruck, it seems this year, he will have to wait for an injury and next year he will have to rely on more injuries as Charlie will hopefully be back.

He looks talented, but where do you see TDK, Charlie and Marchbank, through in Kruz fitting in to this side this year and next?

 

[DangerousD]

I really don't think enough posters realise how far through the rebuild we are. In eight months time most of the kids you allude to protecting/mentoring will be
in to their fourth or fifth years with blokes like Doc, Cripps and Martin (OK I will reluctantly add McGovern) giving the genuine experience. Walsh and Philp are
self starters who don't need the same level of mentoring as some, and I expect Kemp and Honey to be similar.

I would like to agree with you, it for that to be true, I would expect guys like Dow, Stocker, O’Brien to be in the best 22, SPS to be a bit more consistent.
A quality older senior player is only on my radar, if we decide that the free agents or other players in the 25 age bracket are too expensive.

 

[Stamos]

But isn’t Pit our best pick up? He is looking good on limited viewing, if he continues to improve and become a locked in ruck, it’s silly to have another ruck of similar age in the twos.

Even though I like the Gov, it’s due to TDKs position now, that it just doesn’t make any sense why we recruited him, TDK would have been able to play as a third tall and chop out in the ruck, it seems this year, he will have to wait for an injury and next year he will have to rely on more injuries as Charlie will hopefully be back.

He looks talented, but where do you see TDK, Charlie and Marchbank, through in Kruz fitting in to this side this year and next?

Your talking as if players, and rucks especially, never get injured. TDK is 20. Levi is 30.

AS to where those 3 fit, Charlie in the goal square, Marchy to HBF (Willo or Samo up the field), TDK as back-up to Levi or Pitt.
If K is still on the list, fit and in form to push Pittonet or TDK out of the team, that is a wonderful problem to have.

 

[iAsbestos]

Sure two first are overs for Paps but we bloody need him. got plenty of kids now just get it done.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Fiorini will be cheap too

I don't think he will be tbh, even though he's not getting games right now he's only 22 and a part of their leadership group, AND polled well in their BnF last year if I remember correctly.

Not saying he'll require a first rounder or anything like that, but I think it's foolish to think he'll be cheap to get. Well worth paying for though IMO.

 

[katmanblue]

Eh who cares if it costs draft picks like our first and second...we have plenty of talented kids and papley is a match winner who could make us contenders.

I dont think Brisbane care now about giving up essentially a first and second for neale, or a first for Cameron.

Papley will cost more than cameron because he's shown more than cameron did at Adelaide...he elevated his game once arriving at Brisbane.

A gun wants to join us...he's probably the second best small forward in the comp behind cameron. Arguably just as good. Hes only 23 too.

Also give any other players that may think about coming to us faith that we will do what it takes to get the deal done. I think this can't be underestimated imo.

If I am choosing between 2-3 clubs and I know one will move heaven and earth to get me, and another only want me at the right price, then it's an easier choice.

Getting players at the right price is good early on in a rebuild because so many prices need to be put into place.

At the back end of a rebuild the price you pay doesn't matter as long as its the right piece/player. I hate to use the term, but, the synergies created by getting the one or two final pieces need into place can be immense.

Think of it like putting a keystone into an archway. Putting that last piece in lets the whole thing support itself.

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[TheVapors]

Do we need early draft picks this year? Are two more highly-rated kids going to make a difference in the next two years? This might appear short sighted, but our defence and forward line are both young enough, and I think able to match it with any other team in the competition. In terms of potential, our midfield bats very deep. I know potential means nothing, but that’s what two more kids would bring.

Obviously an A-grade talent like Josh Kelly would make a huge difference to our midfield, but we’ve swung and missed on a number of these guys over the past three years. Papley specifically wanted to come to us last year. His position is obviously not what we have been chasing, but A-grade talent requesting to come to your club is an opportunity that doesn’t come along too often. Things might have changed, but if he is still keen to come across at the end of the year then you have to look at it.

I would be more than happy to throw two high draft picks at Tom Papley. By my count, we have 13 first round draft picks on our list from the past five drafts. I think we can afford to miss out on the best youth in the country for one year, especially in such a compromised draft year. If an A-grade talent mid somehow becomes available, then we can re-adjust our strategy to suit, but I think Papley is a better option than two more kids.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Even if both players turn out to be really good or even great, I’m not sure how another tall mid fits in with our other really tall mids. By also adding two more mids, it would mean that a few of our existing players like Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Fisher have not made it.
Im a lot more conservative now on how long it takes kids to be ready to play consistently, both the layers you mentioned are in their second year of footy. Dow and O’Brien are into their third and are currently not best 22, Stocker is in his second and seems a way off, SPS is four years in as is very inconsistent. So whilst they might be talented, unless we get a senior body in, then I think it’s a step backwards in the short term.

Agreed. A bit of talk around here about Caldwell, Hateley and a few other young developing midfielders. The only reason I would take one of these types is if the club has formed the view that not enough of our young midfielders (Dow, O’Brien, Setterfield, Fisher, Stocker, Philp, Kemp etc) will become quality AFL players. Otherwise we’re just bringing in more developing players who will not contribute enough in 2021.

The other problem with trading in these types of guys is that we are at a massive information disadvantage compared to the club they are currently at. Take Caldwell for example, he’ll play a few games this year and no doubt continue to show signs. However, that’s pretty much all we’ll see from afar. GWS will be watching him every day in training and how he stacks up vs Coniglio, Kelly, Whitfield, Ward, Greene etc. For comparison, we know what Papley is about because we’ve seen him play 50+ AFL games. Makes the deal very risk for us. And the risk doesn’t seem worth it unless the club has categorically formed views on our young midfielders.

 

[FRUMPY]

But isn’t Pit our best pick up? He is looking good on limited viewing, if he continues to improve and become a locked in ruck, it’s silly to have another ruck of similar age in the twos.

Even though I like the Gov, it’s due to TDKs position now, that it just doesn’t make any sense why we recruited him, TDK would have been able to play as a third tall and chop out in the ruck, it seems this year, he will have to wait for an injury and next year he will have to rely on more injuries as Charlie will hopefully be back.

He looks talented, but where do you see TDK, Charlie and Marchbank, through in Kruz fitting in to this side this year and next?

Pittonet has played 2 good games - lets not sell the house based on that. If Pittonet shows this form all year (or there abouts) and TDK shows improvement then id be happy to let Kruezer go - his body cant handle the rigors of AFL - or let him know he aint the no.1 ruck anymore.

If what you hear about TDK is right, he has a bit of x-factor about him and could be dangerous going fwd. No rush to move him on anywhere as far as im concerned. If he comes on then i can see him being the number 1 ruck in 2-3 years.

Marchy is best 22 when fit in my opinion - but that doesnt happen often. Hopefully like any good side, we get a point where a 'best 22' player like Marchy or Fisher dont just come straight back in when fit but have to bide their time.

 

[katmanblue]

But isn’t Pit our best pick up? He is looking good on limited viewing, if he continues to improve and become a locked in ruck, it’s silly to have another ruck of similar age in the twos.

Even though I like the Gov, it’s due to TDKs position now, that it just doesn’t make any sense why we recruited him, TDK would have been able to play as a third tall and chop out in the ruck, it seems this year, he will have to wait for an injury and next year he will have to rely on more injuries as Charlie will hopefully be back.

He looks talented, but where do you see TDK, Charlie and Marchbank, through in Kruz fitting in to this side this year and next?

One of them is always injured. TDK needs to concentrate on getting healthy and demanding a spot with his performance on field. Until he is, this is a moot point.

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[Coona Blues]

That would be great but can we wait? Should we wait?

I feel that the CFC are tired of waiting and from a commercial perspective, cannot afford to keep waiting.
In order to become a truly strong club, we have to start winning and making finals regularly, as otherwise the rich get rich and business becomes tougher.

We have many quality young players but maybe we're still not sure of how and when they'll come to being clear first-team picked players.

......but do we need to wait beyond this season for that assessment? My feeling is no, and I have growing faith in our young group. Sure there
remain questions on a couple of individuals, but we have plenty of talent that need the opportunity to shine. I would be both devastated and
angry if we go through the season with Newnes, Simpson, Murphy, even Eddie play close to all games. That "new" word appearing in weekly
team lists "managed" needs to be our friend. Not just for the oldies either. I understand the logic that selected Lang the other week, but we have
to move past it. Even the likes of JSOS, Gibbons, Cuningham and Ed Curnow should be considered for rotations with quick back ups etc. I fully
relate to the concept of playing best 22 consistently, but we are in a rebuild. The kids need the chance to go past the encumbent. With no VFL
participation and limited, if any contact at training opportunity is limited. I am not talking of gifting, but if they are banging hard on the door
we should not be holding them back.

We still don't know what list sizes or salary caps are going to look like, although now looking more likely to be closer to current than was thrown
up a few weeks ago. If we have to choose between Murphy, Kreuzer, Simpson and Betts on the list or perhaps going a year early as opposed to
Ramsay, Honey, Silvagni(s), even Kennedy, Marchbank, Gibbons being quit on, I know which way I would like to lean.

We have multiple threads lauding Pittonet who would be playing scratch matches without the injury to Kreuzer. We all love MK, but on the small
sample, a great many would now prefer Pit, when half had not even bloody heard of him. He was always quality back up at worst and has
elevated beyond that already.

To effectively manage our list, our team needs to assess the merits of a number of players. O'Brien, Stocker, Philp and probably Dow strike me
as bankable long term midfield participants likely to improve the team rather than exist as depth. As a unit, along with consolidation from Setterfield,
Gibbons, Cuningham and Fisher they can alleviate the need to add experience to Cripps, Curnow, Walsh and Martin. Add a fitter Kennedy and a couple
of others, then conceivably Kemp if the season goes well in to September, even October. I do not want to trade in mature types, even as free agents
if the kids are poised to go straight past them during their first contract. You are right, we need to know, not think we know.

We need to further assess TDK both as a ruck and a forward to ascertain if we need to invest in either area. Marchbank needs the opportunity to find
a role. Williamson, hopefully has the chance to consolidate. We need to assess our KPD depth, although that may not be in the top team just yet. The
bigger one is what do Honey and potentially Owies add to our current forward mix? Can we move past the chase for Papley?