Training 2021 Pre-Season

[Desperate saint]

Thanks for the update.

That forward line is very exciting. I'm a big fan of Billings playing forward.

Me as well

 

[NextYearPlease]

Why does every bit of important news and information get put in this thread rather than creating a seperate thread?

seems the same with the draft and trade thread throughout the season too

Rather that than have 100s of separate threads on the most miniscule of topics.

On SM-T290 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He trains well and I think his reputation has been tarnished by a couple of poor games. He's probably more suited to a wing role than a backline but probably hard to get one of those spots. I haven't given up on him yet, but he's definitely up against it.

If by a "couple" you mean more than half of his 49 games, i reckon you'd be right.
"Mature Ager" Highmore is noticeably younger than McKenzie.

 

[Ducky Tie]

He trains well and I think his reputation has been tarnished by a couple of poor games. He's probably more suited to a wing role than a backline but probably hard to get one of those spots. I haven't given up on him yet, but he's definitely up against it.

He is a bit of a scape goat, but he is a very limited footballer. I don't think a couple of bad games is the reason he isn't rated much. He has a tank and has some good fighting traits, but his weapons are very limited. He's a pretty poor kick and doesn't find much of the footy, in any position. With those two issues in his game, he's pretty much restricted to either being the main lockdown small defender, or maybe a tagging role.

 

[ScrappyDo]

If you can believe it, he'll be a RFA by the time his contract is up.
However it seems contracts are reported for their total length so it could have been a 2+1, and Jweb could be a 3+2 for example.
We'll find out the answer to both at the end of the season, but Dmac will surely finish as some sort of record holder if it comes to pass..

 

[Yawkey way]

He trains well and I think his reputation has been tarnished by a couple of poor games. He's probably more suited to a wing role than a backline but probably hard to get one of those spots. I haven't given up on him yet, but he's definitely up against it.

Mckenzie has become a favourite whipping boy for some, imo he has quite a bit to offer and at worst is a good backup.

The development of players often ebbs and flows as injuries hit and roles change. Mckenzie is quick with excellent endurance, he’s hard at contest and is good overhead.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiiuOPD0eruAhXl7HMBHXBQC-8QFjAEegQIBxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.afl.com.au%2Fnews%2F132083%2Fsaints-lock-down-no1-competitor-for-three-more-years&usg=AOvVaw2IURiljZcvTAYtTVW-05Io

The list has improved a lot and Dan will need to wait for an opportunity but imo he deserved his extension. Just like everyone on the list if he gets an opportunity and kills it I’ll be happy.

 

[The Punter]

St Kilda in recent years have signed some players to long term deals who aren't necessarily best 22. I assume they are on moderate wages and this is part of a strategy to have decent depth at bargain prices.

 

[bird_man]

Mckenzie has become a favourite whipping boy for some, imo he has quite a bit to offer and at worst is a good backup.

The development of players often ebbs and flows as injuries hit and roles change. Mckenzie is quick with excellent endurance, he’s hard at contest and is good overhead.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiiuOPD0eruAhXl7HMBHXBQC-8QFjAEegQIBxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.afl.com.au%2Fnews%2F132083%2Fsaints-lock-down-no1-competitor-for-three-more-years&usg=AOvVaw2IURiljZcvTAYtTVW-05Io

The list has improved a lot and Dan will need to wait for an opportunity but imo he deserved his extension. Just like everyone on the list if he gets an opportunity and kills it I’ll be happy.

He may have deserved an extension, but not as long as what he received.

Little doubt in my mind that he would have been delisted in the off season had he not been contracted.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

He may have deserved an extension, but not as long as what he received.

Little doubt in my mind that he would have been delisted in the off season had he not been contracted.

It blows me away that he's on our list until the end of 2022. I keep thinking this year is when his contract expires.

 

[Ducky Tie]

He may have deserved an extension, but not as long as what he received.

Little doubt in my mind that he would have been delisted in the off season had he not been contracted.

Yeah this is it. His strengths and weaknesses can be analysed to whatever degree we want, but ultimately it was just bizarre list management to give a three year extension to a fringe player.

 

[sammm]

Meant to be on Thursday and the club said it would be live streamed.

But this is pending on whether the lockdown is extended or not.

well, i think it will be extended. Dan is already backtracking.

 

[CursingFijian]

well, i think it will be extended. Dan is already backtracking.

Whew, for a brief minute there I thought we were still talking about McKenzies contract.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Mckenzie has become a favourite whipping boy for some, imo he has quite a bit to offer and at worst is a good backup.

The development of players often ebbs and flows as injuries hit and roles change. Mckenzie is quick with excellent endurance, he’s hard at contest and is good overhead.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiiuOPD0eruAhXl7HMBHXBQC-8QFjAEegQIBxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.afl.com.au%2Fnews%2F132083%2Fsaints-lock-down-no1-competitor-for-three-more-years&usg=AOvVaw2IURiljZcvTAYtTVW-05Io

The list has improved a lot and Dan will need to wait for an opportunity but imo he deserved his extension. Just like everyone on the list if he gets an opportunity and kills it I’ll be happy.

Sorry but i can't stand this approach.

He's been with the club since the 2014 draft. He's not some young kid who never had a chance.
He's played 49 games. That is Opportunity , he's had it.

Here's my list of players with more talent and less opportunity at or since that time.
Sam Dunell
Terry Milera
Arryn Sippos
Tom Curren
Josh Saunders
Jason Holmes
Darren Minchington
Brandon White
Logan Austin
Doulton Langlands
Matthew Parker
Ed Phillips.

He is a bit of a scape goat, but he is a very limited footballer. I don't think a couple of bad games is the reason he isn't rated much. He has a tank and has some good fighting traits, but his weapons are very limited. He's a pretty poor kick and doesn't find much of the footy, in any position. With those two issues in his game, he's pretty much restricted to either being the main lockdown small defender, or maybe a tagging role.

I don't think he's ever been tried as a tagger. Steele was probably doing midfield tagging and winning plenty of the ball at the same time.
Is there room in our midfield for a tagger who won't win any of his own ball ( face it , we've seen him often enough, he wont ).
If someone in the oppositions midfield starts to rip it up we still have Ross or Steel who can move to that role and be effective.

I don't generally bang on about how bad he is, but i won't have it that he just needs a chance.
He's only a year younger than our co-captain. The same age as one of our vice captains.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

well, i think it will be extended. Dan is already backtracking.

Quick buy toilet paper.

 

[Ducky Tie]

I don't think he's ever been tried as a tagger. Steele was probably doing midfield tagging and winning plenty of the ball at the same time.
Is there room in our midfield for a tagger who won't win any of his own ball ( face it , we've seen him often enough, he wont ).
If someone in the oppositions midfield starts to rip it up we still have Ross or Steel who can move to that role and be effective.

I don't generally bang on about how bad he is, but i won't have it that he just needs a chance.
He's only a year younger than our co-captain. The same age as one of our vice captains.

Yeah I definitely wasn't advocating for him to get a chance. My post was referencing how limited he is and suggesting that tagging is potentially a role he would be capable of playing - not that it is one he should get an opportunity for. He's a long way back for good reason.

 

[Yawkey way]

Sorry but i can't stand this approach.

He's been with the club since the 2014 draft. He's not some young kid who never had a chance.
He's played 49 games. That is Opportunity , he's had it.

Here's my list of players with more talent and less opportunity at or since that time.
Sam Dunell
Terry Milera
Arryn Sippos
Tom Curren
Josh Saunders
Jason Holmes
Darren Minchington
Brandon White
Logan Austin
Doulton Langlands
Matthew Parker
Ed Phillips.




I don't think he's ever been tried as a tagger. Steele was probably doing midfield tagging and winning plenty of the ball at the same time.
Is there room in our midfield for a tagger who won't win any of his own ball ( face it , we've seen him often enough, he wont ).
If someone in the oppositions midfield starts to rip it up we still have Ross or Steel who can move to that role and be effective.

I don't generally bang on about how bad he is, but i won't have it that he just needs a chance.
He's only a year younger than our co-captain. The same age as one of our vice captains.

In your opinion we should just have him running laps because you don’t rate him.

Imo there’s little between McKenzie and long in fact his stats are slight better and I imagine like many you really rate longy.

It was unnecessary to give McKenzie the length of extension he was given that’s pretty obvious, what I don’t accept is he didn’t deserve an extension. He was getting games, playing decent football and improved enough to finish top 10 in the b&f playing 13 games.

What I also don’t accept is that players should just be pigeonholed as depth and ignored. Pick teams on form and make players who get dropped earn a recall.

I said he deserved his extension, I also said that just like everyone else if he gets a chance I hope he kills it. My horse in the race is st kilda wining games and hopefully a flag, I really don’t care who’s in the 22.

 

[g_TRAIN]

In your opinion we should just have him running laps because you don’t rate him.

Imo there’s little between McKenzie and long in fact his stats are slight better and I imagine like many you really rate longy.

It was unnecessary to give McKenzie the length of extension he was given that’s pretty obvious, what I don’t accept is he didn’t deserve an extension. He was getting games, playing decent football and improved enough to finish top 10 in the b&f playing 13 games.

What I also don’t accept is that players should just be pigeonholed as depth and ignored. Pick teams on form and make players who get dropped earn a recall.

I said he deserved his extension, I also said that just like everyone else if he gets a chance I hope he kills it. My horse in the race is st kilda wining games and hopefully a flag, I really don’t care who’s in the 22.

There is a huge difference between Long and Mckenzie.

One is a headless chook/deer in headlights who can't kick the other may not win much of the footy but at least he can use it. (Not brilliantly but well enough that he can contribute to some good ball movement)

Amazes me how little some people regard ball use and composer. You can't be an AFL footballer without it.

The main reason he doesn't get a game anymore is that unlike Richo Ratten values this quality higher than "competitiveness" alone.

 

[Yawkey way]

There is a huge difference between Long and Mckenzie.

One is a headless chook/deer in headlights who can't kick the other may not win much of the footy but at least he can use it. (Not brilliantly but well enough that he can contribute to some good ball movement)

Amazes me how little some people regard ball use and composer. You can't be an AFL footballer without it.

The main reason he doesn't get a game anymore is that unlike Richo Ratten values this quality higher than "competitiveness" alone.

Just have a quick look at the stats of both players paying particular attention to disposal efficiency.

 

[KingsRansom]

Dmac vs Long...

Is this Hickey vs Longer 2021 style?

 

[g_TRAIN]

Just have a quick look at the stats of both players paying particular attention to disposal efficiency.

Why would I do that when I can tell by looking at them play quite easily who's the better ball user.

1. Mckenzie almost always kicked the ball long or backward/sideways. (Any long kick to a contest that is halved counts as effective disposal)
2. Long has played most of his career in the forward line where disposal efficiency is much harder
3. Long actually tries and is capable of making things happen with the ball, he takes a more risky option. And he doesn't panic with the ball.

If you go by kicking efficiency Dusty Martin is only average and Jason Blake was the best of all time.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Dmac vs Long...

Is this Hickey vs Longer 2021 style?

For the record, Hicky was always better and should always have played over Longer.

Both were average.

 

[Yawkey way]

Dmac vs Long...

Is this Hickey vs Longer 2021 style?

Not likely but hey it’s amusing enough on a Monday afternoon.

Once again if players seize the opportunity and make it impossible to consider dropping them they’ll get nothing but praise from me whoever they may be.

 

[Yawkey way]

For the record, Hicky was always better and should always have played over Longer.

Both were average.

Now I know you’re winding me up.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Now I know you’re winding me up.

Maybe a little

 

[KingsRansom]

For the record, Hicky was always better and should always have played over Longer.

Both were average.

Now I know you’re winding me up.

Longer was a better tap ruckman. There for should have played more...

And go...