Discussion 2022 General AFL Discussion

[Munga]

afl have come out and said they won't be paying frees when people duck, lift an arm, drop at the knees etc to force high contact.

Over a decade too late.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Well see how you feel when the natural absurd overcorrection means we miss a bunch of high free kicks this week.

I agree on accountability but imagine for a second that your workplace just randomly started changing what you are responsible for delivering every couple of weeks? Now imagine your job is carried out in one of the most complex 360 degree fast paced sports in the world with millions watching your every move.

Maybe just let the umpires do their jobs instead of arbitrarily changing the rules and the interpretations of said rule week on week.

Ultimately it's a chicken and egg scenario.
I'm of the belief that making the umps responsible for their product will eradicate the majority of the other issues you raise, and the decision to obfuscate them from the quality of their performances is what got us into this mess in the first place. There would be an adjustment period and it would need a brave administration to see it through.

 

[phantom13]

Ultimately it's a chicken and egg scenario.
I'm of the belief that making the umps responsible for their product will eradicate the majority of the other issues you raise, and the decision to obfuscate them from the quality of their performances is what got us into this mess in the first place. There would be an adjustment period and it would need a brave administration to see it through.

Dont disagree with the first bit, accountability would be good.

Completely disagree with the second bit, continued tweaking of the rules is exactly what caused this. Even this tweak is pointless, the ducking exception already exists and has been implemented for some time on Ginnivan and others so what exactly does the AFL coming out to say "now were going to REALLY focus on this do?"

Same as umpire dissent, rule always existed and has just gone to stupid levels this year.

Push in the back, holding the ball etc etc etc.

 

[Joffaboy]

Saw on the couch the afl have come out and said they won't be paying frees when people duck, lift an arm, drop at the knees etc to force high contact. We'll see how that pans out.

Receipe for more inconsistency and the umpires stamping their influence on a game.

Make it easier for the umpires. Review every high tackle free paid, every duck or fake is a $15k fine, every leading with the head to draw a free is bringing the game into disrepute (head is sacrosanct after all) and a mandatory 2 game suspension.

This directive will make the umpires look even more incompetent.

 

[Sully111]

Receipe for more inconsistency and the umpires stamping their influence on a game.

Make it easier for the umpires. Review every high tackle free paid, every duck or fake is a $15k fine, every leading with the head to draw a free is bringing the game into disrepute (head is sacrosanct after all) and a mandatory 2 game suspension.

This directive will make the umpires look even more incompetent.

I said something similar on the main board. The only way to stamp it out is to cane the offenders post game by reviewing the decisions... and don't screw around... hit them hard.

edit found the post

"I think they need to go harder. It could be fixed in a month. Do it... get 2 weeks, plus at least a 5k fine. It they want to fix it, fix it. They have grounds because of the issues relating to concussion.

I'm talking blatant. People will say it's not black and white but that's rubbish. We know when people are doing it."


It seems simple, but they overcomplicate everything.

 

[StFly]

Receipe for more inconsistency and the umpires stamping their influence on a game.

Make it easier for the umpires. Review every high tackle free paid, every duck or fake is a $15k fine, every leading with the head to draw a free is bringing the game into disrepute (head is sacrosanct after all) and a mandatory 2 game suspension.

This directive will make the umpires look even more incompetent.

Just skip these steps and move straight to touch footy, it's what they obviously want.

2 non negotiables since whenever;
1. Don't be doing shit to the head, contest around it fine, but no shenanigans.
2. Don't be doing shit to the groin, contest around the person, but no shenanigans.

Everything else can be interpreted as a bump to shoulder that slipped, someone with brilliant hips and a dance step copping a feel and what have you with attempted spoils and etc, however...

1. Got utterly junked when Baz Hall straight KO'd people behind play and played the next week.
2. Still live, but only because the AFL was largely homophobic, so don't touch but everyone in AFL house is a dick, just look the other way thanks.

Shoving more on the umpires as you say, already got a high band of 60 frees a match, overreach adds a third really so there's 90 frees as an upper band and now we can spend another 5 mins checking angles with thumbs up arses if the player actually took a dive or if the tackler actually was loose and copping a feel or if it was 50/50 and shit timing for one and great timing for the other.

Meanwhile, stadiums can continue to empty.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I disagree, head high contact is head high contact. Umpires dont get paid heaps and the standard of umpiring is already poor (added to with overly complicated interpretations and updates every other day).

If the head is sancrosanct then leave the rule, the ducking rule is already there anyway, and put the onus on the tackler.

Most of Ginnivans ones are clearly high tackles no matter how you interpret it.

No Ginivan ducks, he drops his knees to draw high contact and should be pinged for holding the ball everytime he does it.

It was interesting to see the Crows game because his opponent on a couple of occasions basically hestitated on the tackle, Ginivan then threw his head back and flopped to the ground and was then tackled - holding the ball was the correct decision.

The umps follow the AFL guidance and every thing is sweet.

 

[phantom13]

No Ginivan ducks, he drops his knees to draw high contact and should be pinged for holding the ball everytime he does it.

It was interesting to see the Crows game because his opponent on a couple of occasions basically hestitated on the tackle, Ginivan then threw his head back and flopped to the ground and was then tackled - holding the ball was the correct decision.

The umps follow the AFL guidance and every thing is sweet.

View attachment 1450547

To be fair I didn’t see crows v pies but previous weeks when he’s gotten a free it’s been there and when he hasn’t it hasn’t. I don’t think the existing rules needed anything nor do I think it needed a release to clarify which was my main point

 

[bergholt]

I'm of the belief that making the umps responsible for their product will eradicate the majority of the other issues you raise, and the decision to obfuscate them from the quality of their performances is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Yeah I've been on this train for a while. Publicise the mistakes and correct calls, have a league table of umpires which shows which are the best ones and which could do better. Allow the general public to see if mistakes made in Perth are consistently in favour of the home team, or if particular sides get the raw end of the stick consistently, or if particular sides get a lot of high contact frees (for instance).

If the umpires complain then pay them more, can't imagine their salaries are a huge part of the AFL's cost base. Ultimately you want to change the culture in there. I don't think they do a bad job and presumably that's what the metrics would show.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

With the focus of late on concussions, CTE, protecting the head etc., I'm surprised at least part of the conversation hasn't turned to protective gear. I'd say it's only a matter of time before headgear becomes mandatory. Haven't really heard of this angle from anyone yet.

Though after watching most of the games over the weekend, one real glaring problem (which won't be fixed with a helmet) is the ol' classic of (usually) a defender waiting under an incoming high ball only for the players from behind to launch at the ball, inadvertently kneeing the waiting player with full force in the back of the head. Horrible to watch and extremely dangerous. There were a number of examples over the weekend, just as there is every weekend in all levels of the sport. Hard to see how that sort of thing can be removed without fundamentally changing the game.

 

[jwikked]

With the focus of late on concussions, CTE, protecting the head etc., I'm surprised at least part of the conversation hasn't turned to protective gear. I'd say it's only a matter of time before headgear becomes mandatory. Haven't really heard of this angle from anyone yet.

Though after watching most of the games over the weekend, one real glaring problem (which won't be fixed with a helmet) is the ol' classic of (usually) a defender waiting under an incoming high ball only for the players from behind to launch at the ball, inadvertently kneeing the waiting player with full force in the back of the head. Horrible to watch and extremely dangerous. There were a number of examples over the weekend, just as there is every weekend in all levels of the sport. Hard to see how that sort of thing can be removed without fundamentally changing the game.

Headgear does nothing to prevent concussion and might make it more likely, if it gives players a false sense of security and a larger area to be hit.

 

[StFly]

Headgear does nothing to prevent concussion and might make it more likely, if it gives players a false sense of security and a larger area to be hit.

Hamster balls.

Precise kicking through the the grate, handball through, hamster ball gets removed when kicking for goal only.

I'd pay to see the players cope with that.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Lol at Bevo whinging about the rule change for head high contact when the player ducks and plays for the free.

Theyre going to have to change their training methods. Ginnevan too.

 

[gringo2011]

Lol at Bevo whinging about the rule change for head high contact when the player ducks and plays for the free.

Theyre going to have to change their training methods. Ginnevan too.

They still have the throwing themselves forward.

 

[phantom13]

Lol at Bevo whinging about the rule change for head high contact when the player ducks and plays for the free.

Theyre going to have to change their training methods. Ginnevan too.

Yehhhh. They’re not though. The rule hasn’t changed they’ve just focused on the interpretation more this week.

It’s dumb from the Afl, players have been knee dropping and lifting their arms for 30 years, good tackling technique doesn’t slip up.

This will be like dissent (rule existed and wasn’t actually changed) holding the ball (rule existed snd wasn’t actually changed). This week is going to look idiotic when a bunch of guys get their ears ripped off and it’s called play on and in 3 weeks it will be the same as it’s been all year (which has actually been fine fwiw).

Also easy for us to criticize but if you don’t think Jack Higgins is one the worst for this you’ve been watching a different game.

 

[Diehard Saint]

They still have the throwing themselves forward.

Starting to feel sorry for the umps right now. ( I’m sure the feeling will pass)

 

[Plugger35]

Lol at Bevo whinging about the rule change for head high contact when the player ducks and plays for the free.

Theyre going to have to change their training methods. Ginnevan too.

Yeah no surprise that he is against that rule change when milking head high free kicks is a major part of their game plan.

If the umpires crack down on throwing as well the Dogs will be in all sorts of trouble.

 

[gringo2011]

Starting to feel sorry for the umps right now. ( I’m sure the feeling will pass)

Yep, we're playing in WA this week. Save your pity.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Yep, we're playing in WA this week. Save your pity.

True, ha ha. I forgot

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yehhhh. They’re not though. The rule hasn’t changed they’ve just focused on the interpretation more this week.

It’s dumb from the Afl, players have been knee dropping and lifting their arms for 30 years, good tackling technique doesn’t slip up.

This will be like dissent (rule existed and wasn’t actually changed) holding the ball (rule existed snd wasn’t actually changed). This week is going to look idiotic when a bunch of guys get their ears ripped off and it’s called play on and in 3 weeks it will be the same as it’s been all year (which has actually been fine fwiw).

Also easy for us to criticize but if you don’t think Jack Higgins is one the worst for this you’ve been watching a different game.

Ginivan is a joke when he flops, its embarrasing that he got through the system playing like that.

 

[gringo2011]

Ginivan is a joke when he flops, its embarrasing that he got through the system playing like that.

He just does the Selwood, it's hysteria that they jump on him. The AFL have prompted Joel as a legend but now it's an annoying campaigner doing it it's outlawed.

 

[StFly]

Starting to feel sorry for the umps right now. ( I’m sure the feeling will pass)

I feel sorry for the one I work with, then remember he tops at VFL so, AFL can still GAGF ump wise.

He just does the Selwood, it's hysteria that they jump on him. The AFL have prompted Joel as a legend but now it's an annoying campaigner doing it it's outlawed.

He's a small forward, so poster boy for "midfielders have brass balls and can do whatever, small forwards are expletives here outside of goal kicking" so never shall the two be seen as comparable in media.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He just does the Selwood, it's hysteria that they jump on him. The AFL have prompted Joel as a legend but now it's an annoying campaigner doing it it's outlawed.

Heard a sound bite of him on the radio recently. Was proud as punch that he’d gotten a high free against Selwood because, and I paraphrase his words, he learnt how to do it from Selwood himself.

 

[phantom13]

Ginivan is a joke when he flops, its embarrasing that he got through the system playing like that.

I don’t like his flopping (he’s hardly the only player to do it, our own Jack Higgins JS awful for it) but the idea that he “dives” or “ducks” is silly.

Granted I didn’t watch any of the Adelaide v Collingwood game (and noting that from what I read the umpires basically stopped paying him high contact free kicks) but in the rest of the year I haven’t ever thought “oh jeez the umpires made a bad call” at all. He accentuates the contact but the contact is there. If anything we should be lamenting that the tacklers haven’t figured out that you have to get low and commit to body contact, if your arms are soft he (and many others) are going to force them up, it’s a technique players have been learning for decades

 

[#gosaintas]

I don’t like his flopping (he’s hardly the only player to do it, our own Jack Higgins JS awful for it) but the idea that he “dives” or “ducks” is silly.

Granted I didn’t watch any of the Adelaide v Collingwood game (and noting that from what I read the umpires basically stopped paying him high contact free kicks) but in the rest of the year I haven’t ever thought “oh jeez the umpires made a bad call” at all. He accentuates the contact but the contact is there. If anything we should be lamenting that the tacklers haven’t figured out that you have to get low and commit to body contact, if your arms are soft he (and many others) are going to force them up, it’s a technique players have been learning for decades

Ginnivan takes it further than anyone. He basicall just gets the ball and throws himself at the tacklers feet and ends up on the ground. Selwood stands up with the ball and does his shrug thing but if it's play on he's still in the contest. Ginnivan is just sprawled on the ground.