Discussion 2022 General AFL Discussion

[Joffaboy]

Exactly this. Fagan and Clarkson hardly have a history of behaviour that would lead you to think that either of them would say anything like that.
But apparently it's case closed and they are both automatically guilty.

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While I think there is absolutely no value in a person making these allegations without some sort of substance, we cannot automatically assume that it is completely true. We have heard one small portion of this, we have only heard from one side of this.

What has been reported is so shocking that it is easy to believe it, but there has to be due process. If I was accused of such a terrible thing, I would want not to have everyone being judge, jury and executioner.

 

[Yawkey way]

Employed as what at Hawthorn?

His payout as coach was spread over 3 years I think and had conditions attached, that’s why he’s not at north right now.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So North say , hey Clarko have you got anything you need to tell us , Nah all good mate .
How the Feck do you think North would have found out about the review that was being done ?
Its easy to say what you said , how about you tell me how they could have found out about the s**t storm that's just hit them

From Kennett's public letter in April.
No way they could have predicted the outcome though.
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Let me address the report published in The Age newspaper on Saturday concerning Cyril Rioli and his wife Shannyn.

“We were all saddened by the story that there had been incidents that had upset both he and his wife.

“We have taken those claims seriously and are conducting further inquiries to see if there might have been other incidents affecting our past First Nations players.

“Once those inquires have concluded, we will determine if any other action needs to be taken.

“I can assure you that the Board and the administration will not shirk our responsibility to work through these matters.

“Some will demand immediate answers and actions, but, given how important these matters are, the best response is a measured and responsible one.

“We will firstly seek to establish the facts, before working through the best way of responding to the matters that require addressing.

“Matters have been brought to our attention. We are taking them seriously, and any failings will be addressed.

“Can I finally say on this matter: we all want Cyril back with us at Hawthorn. I hope that we can work through the hurt he feels and make him feel welcome and safe in the brown and gold family again.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

The boomers love social media don't they. The never offended, always offended types. You just gotta love 'em

Worst generation in history

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Worst generation in history

Sounds like generational bigotry to me.

 

[Joffaboy]

Worst generation in history

That is really hurtful and I was about to write a long post to complain, but I just got a text from my Agent that I need to evict some gig economy zoomer from one of my 6 investment properties.

But be aware you have hurt my feelings muchly.

 

[Longmembrey]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gil's handover to whoever just got extended. He'd need to see this through
you would think ?

If I was Gil, I would be using up my sick leave until my contract is up!

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Sounds like generational bigotry to me.

For once, you’ve grasped the conversational thread

 

[The Punter]

So North say , hey Clarko have you got anything you need to tell us , Nah all good mate .
How the Feck do you think North would have found out about the review that was being done ?
Its easy to say what you said , how about you tell me how they could have found out about the s**t storm that's just hit them

Considering the Cyril Rioli story which was in the public domain before North Melbourne sacked David Noble, I would have tried to make contact with 4-5 former Hawthorn players who happen to be indigenous and asked them about their experiences.

Due diligence doesn't need to be hard, it just needs to be done.

 

[Mowman]

That is some heinous, old world type racist s**t. To have that going on in this country in this century is *ed.

Still struggling to believe how this can be true

My god we haven’t come far

 

[CursingFijian]

Considering the Cyril Rioli story which was in the public domain before North Melbourne sacked David Noble, I would have tried to make contact with 4-5 former Hawthorn players who happen to be indigenous and asked them about their experiences.

Due diligence doesn't need to be hard, it just needs to be done.

North posters are saying that Clarkson is starting to get some calls offering support from former first nation Hawthorn players.

 

[Joffaboy]

Still struggling to believe how this can be true

My god we haven’t come far

I know, it is so shocking that my first reaction was no, this can't be true.

The decades the AFL has being trying to be at the forefront of reconciliation with First Nations has come crashing down in one morning.

Watching Tony Armstrong on ABC this morning, a former AFL player who has got great charisma and camera craft, I was thinking, what must this guy think, he can get to the zenith of his profession and popularity but he and his people are just dragged back into the gutter. I don't know what it is liked to be racially profiled or abused but it isn't hard to imagine the constant hurt it must produce.

 

[GodSziller]

The Family Club

Maybe they can put a few more pokies in. Hawthorn is such a shining light of the community.


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[Longmembrey]

I think its best if Ratts resigns. I dont know if he is involved in this but I do know he can't coach.

 

[sauce_head]

You are instantly assuming that this story is 100% factual just because it was reported. In a world where the media constantly lie to us and people make stuff up you are sold completely allready? Let's just relax for a second ffs.

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It seems difficult to imagine a scenario where this could be explained as compassionate, to be honest.

I have the same initial hesitation as you though. The language in the article is about as emotive as it can be which has probably exaggerated peoples reactions. But if the base facts around some things are true, even with dispassionate language, it would initially seem also impossible to justify.

But we should wait for both sides, as difficult as that can be.

 

[D2D3]

While I think there is absolutely no value in a person making these allegations without some sort of substance, we cannot automatically assume that it is completely true. We have heard one small portion of this, we have only heard from one side of this.

What has been reported is so shocking that it is easy to believe it, but there has to be due process. If I was accused of such a terrible thing, I would want not to have everyone being judge, jury and executioner.

While I get this stance. Got to always keep in mind that someone like Clarkson is not an easy person to just shout accusations at. He’s well paid, well connected, well lawyered, pr trained and has the afl clean up crew around. These people likely would have never had their voices heard ever without the journalist there to compile their stories. It is not a level playing field here and there’s a fair chance these people will cop more than they ever gain from people out to defend someone like Clarkson. If we want to take accusations with a grain of salt (fair enough), treat defences with the same skepticism.

 

[Joffaboy]

While I get this stance. Got to always keep in mind that someone like Clarkson is not an easy person to just shout accusations at. He’s well paid, well connected, well lawyered, pr trained and has the afl clean up crew around. These people likely would have never had their voices heard ever without the journalist there to compile their stories. It is not a level playing field here and there’s a fair chance these people will cop more than they ever gain from people out to defend someone like Clarkson. If we want to take accusations with a grain of salt (fair enough), treat defences with the same skepticism.

Agree with that, these accusations are extremely serious and shocking, therefore the accused need to be heard in their defence.

 

[Ads734]

Without being rude but are you taking the piss lmao?

In what world is it appropriate to tell an employee what to do in their private life and to even insinuate abortion of a child?

I’m know you’re not condoning saying it but even if there was some misunderstanding the fact that this conversation was happening is a ******* disgrace.

Forget losing their jobs, this could and should go to fair work for a hostile workplace.

I’m being 100 % like in all seriousness if your a young player and look up to a coach as a mentor and say your away from your family would not potentially have the convo with them.

 

[sauce_head]

I told em they were getting a priority prick...


But they just wouldn't listen!


“Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner,” the player says.

The player went on to say: “He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/hawthorn/damning-racism-report-finds-shock-allegations-against-hawthorn/news-story/e442e9865cb0dd74747c736a5478ccba

The language around that is powerful and very emotive.

“He felt he had no choice. "He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

That seems to be the players interpretation of what abortion is. I wonder if most people here, who are rightly outraged of club overstep, would also describe it that way? Because it’s deliberately written that way to evoke the greatest reaction.

If it was “he encouraged me to have an abortion for the sake of my career and long term benefit”, would that make it different? Would there not be hundreds of such conversations within families every year? Sure, it’s still significant overstep by the club and Clarkson (alleged) but it doesn’t sound quite as bad that way, but still bad.

 

[Ads734]

I don’t know what you blokes are smoking.

But even in a hypothetical scenario where 50% of what was reported is true and accurate.

It’s still *ed up.

You still wouldn’t want your kids being in the care of people who think or act that way and you most certainly wouldn’t want anyone you know to be guided by them in life.

They shouldn’t be in the positions they are in. Clearly unfit for the role.

We’ll at this point as I stated originally we’ve only heard from one side. Once the they’ve had their say I’d suggest a much clearer picture would be able to given.

 

[Lightsxo]

I’m being 100 % like in all seriousness if your a young player and look up to a coach as a mentor and say your away from your family would not potentially have the convo with them.

The entire situation reeks of white colonisation.

This is literally the stolen generation being perpetuated in an AFL field.

Taking and isolating young indigenous people away from their family and comfort so they can “excel”.

Now Clarko and the likes probably rationalise this stuff saying they’re doing it for their players betterment etc but it’s just inhumane behaviour.

If you go to work whether you’re a plumber, a banker or a footy player your employer should have no say in anything of that sort.

Now we don’t know the full story or anything but based in the article if there are emails sent this should be fairly easy to verify one way or the other. Just something to remember the ABC have named people in their article. The fact they have done that leads me to believe they’ve seen evidence and they’re prepared to be sued if it came to it.

 

[Bertha]

That is some heinous, old world type racist s**t. To have that going on in this country in this century is *ed.

Your making an assumption they only did that to indigenous players. The review only looked at the treatment of indigenous players, doesn't mean non-indigenous players didn't have similar treatment.

 

[Yawkey way]

The language around that is powerful and very emotive.

“He felt he had no choice. "He told me to kill my unborn kid.”

That seems to be the players interpretation of what abortion is. I wonder if most people here, who are rightly outraged of club overstep, would also describe it that way? Because it’s deliberately written that way to evoke the greatest reaction.

If it was “he encouraged me to have an abortion for the sake of my career and long term benefit”, would that make it different? Would there not be hundreds of such conversations within families every year? Sure, it’s still significant overstep by the club and Clarkson (alleged) but it doesn’t sound quite as bad that way, but still bad.

I must live a sheltered life but what employer would have the sheer gall to suggest that to an employee. Ignore who has the power and other implications it’s just unimaginable Imo. The only thing that surprises me is that someone didn't drop him and go Michael flatley on his face.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Considering the Cyril Rioli story which was in the public domain before North Melbourne sacked David Noble, I would have tried to make contact with 4-5 former Hawthorn players who happen to be indigenous and asked them about their experiences.

Due diligence doesn't need to be hard, it just needs to be done.

Well considering Burgoyne was there a million years and then Impey joined him it wouldn't be ringing alarm bells i wouldn't have thought and who is to say they would have said anything if they had spoken to them

 

[CaptainRisky]

From Kennett's public letter in April.
No way they could have predicted the outcome though.
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Let me address the report published in The Age newspaper on Saturday concerning Cyril Rioli and his wife Shannyn.

“We were all saddened by the story that there had been incidents that had upset both he and his wife.

“We have taken those claims seriously and are conducting further inquiries to see if there might have been other incidents affecting our past First Nations players.

“Once those inquires have concluded, we will determine if any other action needs to be taken.

“I can assure you that the Board and the administration will not shirk our responsibility to work through these matters.

“Some will demand immediate answers and actions, but, given how important these matters are, the best response is a measured and responsible one.

“We will firstly seek to establish the facts, before working through the best way of responding to the matters that require addressing.

“Matters have been brought to our attention. We are taking them seriously, and any failings will be addressed.

“Can I finally say on this matter: we all want Cyril back with us at Hawthorn. I hope that we can work through the hurt he feels and make him feel welcome and safe in the brown and gold family again.

Not sure what your getting at here but even our own club have let some of our own down
Everyone just needs to get better