Discussion 2022 General AFL Discussion

[George]

Yep, the output of the AFL merging Fitzroy to Brisbane…

Didn't any of them play for Fitzroy prior to the merger? I know Chris Johnson did, not sure on the others

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, the output of the AFL merging Fitzroy to Brisbane…

It was only Chris Johnson and Jarrod Molloy from Fitzroy that made any difference to them in the merger. Fitzroy came with a small pile of average talent. They got a better name and uniform out of it but not much else.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

It was only Chris Johnson and Jarrod Molloy from Fitzroy that made any difference to them in the merger. Fitzroy came with a small pile of average talent. They got a better name and uniform out of it but not much else.

Brad Boyd was a great player until his back went, John Barker went ok too.

The whole list;

• Scott Bamford.
• John Barker.
• Brad Boyd.
• Nick Carter.
• Shane Clayton.
• Simon Hawking.
• Chris Johnson.
• Jarrod Molloy.

 

[gringo2011]

Brad Boyd was a great player until his back went, John Barker went ok too.

The whole list;

• Scott Bamford.
• John Barker.
• Brad Boyd.
• Nick Carter.
• Shane Clayton.
• Simon Hawking.
• Chris Johnson.
• Jarrod Molloy.

Boyd never got going though, think he must have gone up there injured. Barker was great at the Hawks, did he ever get a game at Brisbane? I had an ex that followed the Lions back then so knew the side pretty well. Johnson was the only gun out of them. Molloy played his best footy at the Pies too. I thought Bamford was going to be a player. He reminded me of Paul Kelly from the Swans, just a wiry little whippet of a guy but played like a sack of anvils.

 

[StFly]

It was only Chris Johnson and Jarrod Molloy from Fitzroy that made any difference to them in the merger. Fitzroy came with a small pile of average talent. They got a better name and uniform out of it but not much else.

Not quite.

North + Roys merger which was "all but signed" middled like a boss that when chips were down they blinked.
Bears + Roys merger, had money, debt payments, expanded lists, and multiple years of COLA like payments for the time.
3 years after those payments and merger instances faded, they 3 peat.

There is causation in how a club is run from basket case to "voltron" in 3 years, then you shuffle some on field things and hey presto when you have resources and can use them because the Commission loved it and North blinked.

 

[sauce_head]

Not quite.

North + Roys merger which was "all but signed" middled like a boss that when chips were down they blinked.
Bears + Roys merger, had money, debt payments, expanded lists, and multiple years of COLA like payments for the time.
3 years after those payments and merger instances faded, they 3 peat.

There is causation in how a club is run from basket case to "voltron" in 3 years, then you shuffle some on field things and hey presto when you have resources and can use them because the Commission loved it and North blinked.

Yeah exactly it’s wasn’t purely players on the list but other advantages. Like Sydney.

 

[George]

Brad Boyd was a great player until his back went, John Barker went ok too.

The whole list;

• Scott Bamford.
• John Barker.
• Brad Boyd.
• Nick Carter.
• Shane Clayton.
• Simon Hawking.
• Chris Johnson.
• Jarrod Molloy.

John Barker, geez. I only remember him at Hawthorn until this. Can't believe that was 25+ years ago now

 

[Mowman]

Herald Sun with more Hawthorn stuff
North and Brisbane should start interviewing for new coaches

 

[austinnn]

Just realised that the 97 Grand Final was 25 years ago. My maiden year as a Saints supporter.


Thank God I missed all that rubbish beforehand, I suppose.

 

[George]

Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Mark Evans accused by Hawthorn whistleblower of behaving like the ‘Russian Mafia’

Top Hawks were accused by a fellow coach of running the football department like the “Russian Mafia’’, the club’s review of its handling of Indigenous players reveals.

Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Mark Evans were accused by a fellow Hawthorn coach of running the football department like the “Russian Mafia’’, the club’s review of its handling of Indigenous players reveals.

Two pregnant partners of players lost their unborn children during the “traumatic events’’, the explosive Hawthorn-commissioned report also noted.

The report further concluded that between 2010 and 2016, coaches Clarkson, Fagan and Jason Burt used “bullying and intimidation’’ against Indigenous players and their partners, with the incidents so serious as to “amount to human rights abuses’’.

The Herald Sun has exclusively obtained the full report titled Cultural Safety Review: Of Past and Present Indigenous Players and Staff of the Hawthorn Football Club.

Clarkson, who was appointed North Melbourne coach in August, has categorically denied any wrongdoing.

On Tuesday, Brisbane coach Fagan said: “I confirm, as I said in my earlier statement, that I deny, categorically, the allegations of wrongdoing by me in relation to First Nations players at the Hawthorn Football Club, and that I intend to defend myself.’’

It is not possible for the Herald Sun to independently verify the claims or assertions made in the report and the paper does not suggest they are completely true and accurate, only that they have been made and are being investigated by various bodies.

The report asserted that the alleged treatment at the club of First Nations players involved “bullying and intimidation tactics … to be used to isolate First Nations players from their families and communities”.

These “aggressive intimidatory actions were undertaken by the most senior of the coaching and management hierarchy’’, wrote the review’s authors, led by project manager Phil Egan.

A Hawks coach, who the Herald Sun has chosen not to name, told the reviewers: “If you dare question their methods, you were frozen out.”

“I knew this day would come,’’ the insider told the authors, according to the report.

The whistleblower coach, who is not Indigenous, “reached out’’ to the authors of the report who up to that point had only interviewed Indigenous people in order to corroborate parts of the testimonies from players and their partners.

“He went on to say Evans, Clarkson, Fagan and Burt operated the football department like The Russian Mafia,” the report said.

The review includes several pages of harrowing testimony from three partners of players and another player.

As was revealed last week, one testimony claimed Clarkson told a player he should terminate their unborn child.

The report asserts that “partners of players who have tabled the serious allegations were in the early stages of pregnancy, with two mothers losing their unborn child during these traumatic events’’.

The testimony of one partner said: “For three grown men (Clarkson, Fagan and Burt) to have walked into my house with no warning, and intimidate, trap and bully me full well knowing I’m carrying a child is just by no means acceptable.

“I was in complete agony after they left, I felt like my world had just come crashing down.

“If anything was to happen to this baby I would have no choice but to hold the Hawthorn Football Club and those three as individuals responsible and it is the last thing on earth I’d ever want to do.’’

A player told the authors: “My partner and daughter were then not allowed to fly over to Melbourne to come and see me until my daughter was four months old, as the club had told my partner and myself that they would be a distraction to my football career.

“When I was delisted, all my past trauma resurfaced, and I have been extremely unwell since. I am now deemed disabled, and I am on disability support pension, and I am also awaiting NDIS funding for a full time support worker to work with me 7 days a week.

“I have had multiple suicide attempts, multiple stays in the mental health unit at the hospital … the trauma that I deal with every day is because of the way the Club treated myself and my family.’’

Another testimony described a Clarkson visit to their home. “Alister (sic) Clarkson came over to visit us one night. I remember his comments as soon as he entered the house because I was so shocked. Clarko – “Oh (player’s name) this house is nice, you have the kids artwork up and it’s nice and clean. You should invite your teammates over for dinner and things. For all they know you’re living in a shack in the desert somewhere”.

‘’I was insulted straight away. It was clear that this Hawthorn official had a view on how Aboriginal people live and he wasn’t shy in voicing it.’’

Burt issued a statement to the Herald Sun on Tuesday evening.

“I wish to categorically deny the conduct attributed to me in the media. It is difficult to comment more fully in circumstances where I have never seen the report despite my lawyer asking the Hawthorn Football Club and the AFL for a copy,” he said.

“I am aggrieved Hawthorn saw fit to commission the report but did not give me the opportunity to respond to the allegations before the report was finalised and provided to the AFL.

“In my time at Hawthorn, the welfare of all players, including first nation players, was always my primary concern. A number of the first nation players lived in my home with my wife and children.

“It is my hope that the investigation to be conducted by the AFL is both fair and transparent, and that I will be given the opportunity to both give my account and test the accounts of those who have apparently made allegations against me.”

Evans wascontacted for comment, but did not respond before publication.

 

[Mowman]

Just realised that the 97 Grand Final was 25 years ago. My maiden year as a Saints supporter.


Thank God I missed all that rubbish beforehand, I suppose.

Hi My name is Mowman and I’m a StKilda supporter and my maiden year was 1975 it’s been a hard life


Thanks Dad

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Just realised that the 97 Grand Final was 25 years ago. My maiden year as a Saints supporter.


Thank God I missed all that rubbish beforehand, I suppose.

I was born in 93 and tbh my Saints ride has been quite easy.

That being said give us Peter Everitt and Vidovic and that cup is ours.

 

[Joffaboy]

Herald Sun with more Hawthorn stuff
North and Brisbane should start interviewing for new coaches

Just read it OMG, if even only a fraction is true, this is the end of all of them.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just read it OMG, if even only a fraction is true, this is the end of all of them.

I don’t understand what possible reason there would be for these players and their partners to lie about this.

 

[MightySaint]

I don’t understand what possible reason there would be for these players and their partners to lie about this.

I agree, but if there's something we have learnt in human history its that people's ability, and reason, to lie can beggar belief.

 

[phantom13]

I agree, but if there's something we have learnt in human history its that people's ability, and reason, to lie can beggar belief.

It remains the only defence of this shit show "I dont believe it".

Plenty of people still claiming they need some context or whatever have lost their marbles.

I could understand the reasoning behind one or even two people lying about it but were now at 3 plus 2 club officials validating the claims, its hard to see how its no substantially true at this point.

 

[Sun Ra]

It remains the only defence of this s**t show "I dont believe it".

Plenty of people still claiming they need some context or whatever have lost their marbles.

I could understand the reasoning behind one or even two people lying about it but were now at 3 plus 2 club officials validating the claims, its hard to see how its no substantially true at this point.

Who are the 2 club officials validating the claims ?

I missed that.

 

[phantom13]

Who are the 2 club officials validating the claims ?

I missed that.

One on the article above (couple of posts) and one last week who validated some of the claims (not all).

Both anonymous.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I agree, but if there's something we have learnt in human history its that people's ability, and reason, to lie can beggar belief.

One person, yes. But a group of them?
Just don't know what the motivation would be to lie here? Puts them all squarely in a very uncomfortable spotlight.

 

[StFly]

I don’t understand what possible reason there would be for these players and their partners to lie about this.

Fear.

These people from this organisation that is paying a wage is;

At your house.
With your partner.
Strongarming.
They also try and control, you.

Unless you have an out and they haven't isolated you fully yet, you stay because the alternative equates to run away and how do you run away in todays age as a 20yo following a dream?

 

[sauce_head]

Fear.

These people from this organisation that is paying a wage is;

At your house.
With your partner.
Strongarming.
They also try and control, you.

Unless you have an out and they haven't isolated you fully yet, you stay because the alternative equates to run away and how do you run away in todays age as a 20yo following a dream?

Fear makes them lie?

I think you might be answering a question about why they stay.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Fear.

These people from this organisation that is paying a wage is;

At your house.
With your partner.
Strongarming.
They also try and control, you.

Unless you have an out and they haven't isolated you fully yet, you stay because the alternative equates to run away and how do you run away in todays age as a 20yo following a dream?

I don’t understand your answer or you don’t understand my post.

Im saying there is no reason for these players and family to lie about what happened. What’s in it for them? All it does is thrust them into the spotlight, which they’d probably prefer not to be. In other words, there’s probably a lot of truth to their claims.

 

[bergholt]

Im saying there is no reason for these players and family to lie about what happened. What’s in it for them? All it does is thrust them into the spotlight, which they’d probably prefer not to be. In other words, there’s probably a lot of truth to their claims.

I think the behaviour was terrible, will probably be proven, and a bunch of people will no longer work in the game, and rightly so.

But clearly there are reasons to lie, there always are with human emotions. A personal grudge against Clarko and others because they feel hard done by? Hate Hawthorn because they feel like they didn't get treated specially enough? A fundamental dislike of the entire footy industry because they haven't succeeded in it? All of these could colour people's memories and push their recall and stories in a more negative direction.

Especially because with anonymity, mostly this doesn't even put them in the spotlight, so there's not a huge downside.

I don't think this undermines their story so far, and again I think it was terrible behaviour and people will rightly be excommunicated because of it.

But if it comes out in a court of law, as it will probably need to, you better expect these are the questions that will be raised in their defence.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I tell you what, the level of cope, denial and delusion in the Clarkson thread on the North board needs to be seen to be believed.

Reminds me of all the backslapping and high-fiving in their threads about Josh Kelly a few years ago.

 

[Diehard Saint]

New details emerge after Geelong fined over eight-year-long salary cap rules breach

The AFL took action after investigating the Cats’ repeated violations.

7news.com.au

Well colour me shocked!
slapped by a wet lettuce leaf fine.