2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[MrPremiership]

Growth of our younger mids and pre season games

Personal opinion, as much as you don't allow that

Nash has only played 50 games and his growth in the last 20 has been incredible. Why can't he have projected growth like other young mids?

With the addition of the "Gather Round", there is only going to be 1 pre-season game. Doesn't give much time for the kids to push Nash out "post Christmas"


You can have as much "personal opinion" as you like. Just asked for some decent reasons for it, not just "its the vibe"

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Sam Mitchell had a superhuman level of balance and lateral awareness.

The way he would step sideways out of a pack and those little shimmies before disposing of the ball on either foot were just beautiful to watch.

I feel MacKenzie has some of those traits. An the run flat out at your pace, an stop dead in your tracks and pass the ball off.

MacKenzie stated in the Hawks Zoom call he is working on his upper body size, an kicking skills. Sam said he was a great kick on one footy, but needs to work on the other.

 

[chopflop]

Nash hasn't played on the wing nor HFF.

The result of him (and Kosi) being forced to play in the ruck was the reason why the club went hard at recruiting Meek.

Ruck rover and Centre are the exact same position these days.

He deserves a chance at playing in the middle and not being moved around, but he will have a group of youngsters and the likes of Worpel and Stephens competing for limited spots. Only Newcombe, Ward and maybe Maginess would be safe at this stage.

Nash played lots of wing last year.

 

[peetoo]

The same Sam who identified Nash as being a midfielder as opposed to a forward as Clakro was trying? Same Sam who played him 21 games last year? Same Sam who while playing under gained a 2 year extension with the club?

I am all for the young kids coming for his spot - if a few of the draftees surpassed him this year it would be a boon for our team. However I think Sam rates Connor much more highly than you do at present.

Indeed a more hardened player who can play elsewhere and take up some slack in the centre will enable the youngsters to get onball time without burning out.

 

[HedgeFund]

We really need some x-factor though.
Cyril, Buddy, Roughy, Burgoyne, Breust, Gunston, Poppy - these guys could pull some goals out of their arses when you least expected it.

True, but those guys on grand final day 2013 were aged 25, 26, 26, 29, 22, 21 and 24 respectively.

None of them (Buddy and Cyril aside) were drafted into the AFL with X-factor.

It developed over time, as they matured, played more games and grew in confidence at the level.

Then they blossomed, the same way Dusty Martin did from 2017 onwards, or Fyfe at season 4/5 once he grew into his ridiculous physique.

 

[Hawkas1988]

You never quite realise how tall 197cm is until you see it in the flesh

Yeah my mate and I were walking behind him and we aint short. Amazing the size of some mids these days.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Nash has only played 50 games and his growth in the last 20 has been incredible. Why can't he have projected growth like other young mids?

With the addition of the "Gather Round", there is only going to be 1 pre-season game. Doesn't give much time for the kids to push Nash out "post Christmas"


You can have as much "personal opinion" as you like. Just asked for some decent reasons for it, not just "its the vibe"

this is what it will depend on. There's a very good chance Nash isn't anywhere close to the finished product. His AFL prime would theoretically come much later than most other players. If he keeps improving he will remain best 22, and if he becomes fully comfortable in the game with his frame and athletic ability, he could be an absolute menace.

However, if he stagnates then he will be pushed out.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

My take on Nash is that putting him in the ruck last year really set his year back (didn't do Kossie any good either). Getting smashed by the likes of Witts, etc didn't do much for his confidence.

The only position I think he has shown potential as as an AFL footballer is as a big bodied midfielder.

So I would say to him you have got 5 games at the start of the year to make that spot your own. Average a minimum of 20 touches and say 3 tackles and you keep your spot. Give him a tangible goal.

He has had 5 years in the system, this is the time he should be reaching a standard that makes him a first 22 selection on output not just potential.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

My take on Nash is that putting him in the ruck last year really set his year back (didn't do Kossie any good either). Getting smashed by the likes of Witts, etc didn't do much for his confidence.

The only position I think he has shown potential as as an AFL footballer is as a big bodied midfielder.

So I would say to him you have got 5 games at the start of the year to make that spot your own. Average a minimum of 20 touches and say 3 tackles and you keep your spot. Give him a tangible goal.

He has had 5 years in the system, this is the time he should be reaching a standard that makes him a first 22 selection on output not just potential.

Agree. I haven't been a fan of Nash so far throughout the journey, but it's clear to me now that he is capable of playing some good football in the midfield for us. And he offers a huge point of difference.

Moving him around last year into the ruck, etc. didn't help him at all as he was forced to play a team role just as he was getting some continuity in his game.

I think he's earned the right to make the position his own now.

Though I think ultimately only two (at most) of Nash, Worpel and Stephens would be in the side at any one time.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

My take on Nash is that putting him in the ruck last year really set his year back (didn't do Kossie any good either). Getting smashed by the likes of Witts, etc didn't do much for his confidence.

The only position I think he has shown potential as as an AFL footballer is as a big bodied midfielder.

So I would say to him you have got 5 games at the start of the year to make that spot your own. Average a minimum of 20 touches and say 3 tackles and you keep your spot. Give him a tangible goal.

He has had 5 years in the system, this is the time he should be reaching a standard that makes him a first 22 selection on output not just potential.

He's had 4 years being played out of position, give him a chance.

 

[JaegarTime]

When Nash was finally given his chance in the middle at the end of 21 he showed a lot of promise. Him being moved around a lot didn’t help him but geez people are quick to forget he actually had a good impact in there.

 

[MasterSamurai]

The only knock I'd have on Nash is that he doesn't push frwd to become a goal kicking dangerous mid enough, in fact, this has been a reoccurring problem since 2019 for us . Too much of the slack is left to 3 or 4 frwds to have cracking games evryweek which is almost impossible. So it's not only Nash, it's the whole collective that play as inside/outside mids.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'd be surprised if the data inside the club doesn't show that Nash has improved year on year.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Nash is in such an interesting position as we approach our next 5 years.

He's in a great position age wise and offers a point of difference in the midfield.

The biggest question will be if he has the scope for more improvement as the other young, big bodied mids (Long, Hustwaite, Stephens) develop. Will they, as natural footballers who grew up playing the game, overtake Connor? Or will he end up being a better footballer than those players despite having an unconventional pathway?

 

[cs61]

I'd be surprised if the data inside the club doesn't show that Nash has improved year on year.

Definitely, especially his kicking and decision making. Gone from a shocking kick slowly to reliable. Give him 22 games in the middle this year after finding his feet as a midfielder, and think he will improve another notch or so. I almost have him as a lock and see Stephens/Worpel fighting over a position.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The only knock I'd have on Nash is that he doesn't push frwd to become a goal kicking dangerous mid enough, in fact, this has been a reoccurring problem since 2019 for us . Too much of the slack is left to 3 or 4 frwds to have cracking games evryweek which is almost impossible. So it's not only Nash, it's the whole collective that play as inside/outside mids.

Newcombe is the only full time midfielder that's shown that he could have an impact up forward.

We do have Moore and Wingard too, though they are more forwards that will rotate through the midfield, not midfielders resting forward.

Maybe Day could become that player for us? I suspect Ward's hard running will see him get into goal scoring positions throughout games too.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

He's had 4 years being played out of position, give him a chance.

That in essence is what I am saying we do.

Give him a guarantee that we will play him for an extended run of games in his preferred position (midfield). No more throwing him in the ruck, etc.

But by the same token he has had five years in the AFL system so he needs to start to consistently produce a baseline performance you would expect from an AFL mid which is around 20 possessions a game. He doesn't have to dominate but he can't average 15 possessions a game as a mid, no clubs carry midfielders that do that.

 

[peetoo]

45%

The overall success rate for draftees. Of course Nash himself is a draftee

 

[TylerDurden]

I'm tipping he won't have to ruck this year, with 4 genuine rucks on our list now.
I reckon that seriously impacted his game, in a negative way.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I'm tipping he won't have to ruck this year, with 4 genuine rucks on our list now.
I reckon that seriously impacted his game, in a negative way.

Next year holds many unknowns but one thing is for certain, if Nash or Kossy are in the ruck again things are well and truely up the schizen!

 

[hawkmang]

Can we trade out our social media team for the box hill social media team?

 

[HedgeFund]

He's had 4 years being played out of position, give him a chance.

Hmmm…the idea that a fella recruited with pick 62 in the 2016 rookie draft from Meath County Board of the Gaelic Athletic Association and has spent 6 years learning to play this game from scratch has been “played out of position” for 4 seasons is pretty weird.

I mean, it not like he was running amok in the midfield for Vic Metro or a NAB league team as a 17 year old was he?

What possibly position could he have been played out of since 2018? The guy hardly knew the first thing about the game until 2019

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Hmmm…the idea that a fella recruited with pick 62 in the 2016 rookie draft from Meath County Board of the Gaelic Athletic Association and has spent 6 years learning to play this game from scratch has been “played out of position” for 4 seasons is pretty weird.

I mean, it not like he was running amok in the midfield for Vic Metro or a NAB league team as a 17 year old was he?

What possibly position could he have been played out of since 2018? The guy hardly knew the first thing about the game until 2019

I understand what you are saying and far be it for me to defend Tassie Cryptic's tedious fanboiing of Nash at every possible moment - but I think it was apparent during the 2021 season that Nash was being played out of position.

He was useless as a forward and it was obvious he was completely lost playing there. But he found some form playing through the middle for Box Hill that year.

Edit: actually that's probably what you meant in the first place. No one knew what his best position would be early days.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

What possibly position could he have been played out of since 2018? The guy hardly knew the first thing about the game until 2019

Played as a defensive forward and CHF by Clarkson, not his greatest moves.
He is a midfielder/ ruck rover.

 

[mustang]

It's been an amazing off season.

Meek and Stephens are really underrated on here and by anyone with an opinion and license to publish on AFL media sites.

Out of Meek and Lynch we can expect one of them to turn into a genuine AFL quality ruckman this year to pair up with Noodle. Compared to the draft picks we could have used or traded for (and waited 4-5 yeara to ripen), both of these guys are loaded with potential.

We traded Mitchell for 2x 3rd round picks + Stephens. This dude has been in the system, has an epic work rate. I don't know what this guy's ceiling is but he's seen the inside of a premiership environment, was mentored by Selwood for years. He's going to add a lot to the list even if he doesn't produce on the field. However, I think he's got a lot going for him and will end up being a steal.

Amon - we finally got a free agent! And a really bloody good one at that. Maybe not an outright matchwinner but sheesh he's exactly what we need.

I'm super excited by Weddle out of the Draftees. But it's all speculation until they run onto the field.
McKenzie looks like such a safe bet. I've found it hard to get excited about him. But the others look like a bunch of speed demons with flair. A team of 22x CJs coming up.

For a side that finished 6th last, lost an all-time great coach, hardly plays at the MCG, doesn't get any favours via the fixture, has board instability and an off-field scandal - this is actually a ******* outrageously good trade period and list upgrade with a view to the future.

It was so ballsy to move on Mitchell and O'Meara. But they are the Vandenberg and Lekkas of this generation. Gave their all. Great players on their day. hindered by injury. But not the future. I think both of them will flourish in the new environments.

2023 will be a down year but lordy, we have sown the seeds of prosperity and made the hard calls.

I think Lekkas would have been around in 08 if not for injuries a head injury wasn’t it.