2022 Hawthorn List Management Discussion (including Trade, FA period)

[HeHateMe]

I've always been huge on Nash, but il put it this way we want Nash to make it because no-one is drafting 197cm athletes like him. As rare as hens teeth.

 

[HedgeFund]

Man you speak a lot of s**t


Only three successful Irish players??!?!

If you play more than one season of AFL that's some measure of success

So for you a player needs to play in a premiership or win a Brownlow! Laughable. How successful do you rate your own life ??

Name me another Irish player who has managed 100 AFL games.

Clubs don’t recruit them to hang in a list for 4 years and play 30-odd games do they. Is that your definition of success?

We are talking about Nash who has played 50 (only 22 wins mind you and we’ve gone backwards a fair bit in those 5 seasons) remaining in our midfield as the young players develop alongside him.

You’ve overlooked my key point. Those who have played long term and contributed for many seasons started and played in the one position only.

As for talking s**t - I’ll leave it to you to reflect on your comment.

 

[cryptor]

Name me another Irish player who has managed 100 AFL games.

Clubs don’t recruit them to hang in a list for 4 years and play 30-odd games do they. Is that your definition of success?

We are talking about Nash who has played 50 (only 22 wins mind you and we’ve gone backwards a fair bit in those 5 seasons) remaining in our midfield as the young players develop alongside him.

You’ve overlooked my key point. Those who have played long term and contributed for many seasons started and played in the one position only.

As for talking s**t - I’ll leave it to you to reflect on your comment.

Pearce Hanley.

 

[killerspud]

Name me another Irish player who has managed 100 AFL games.

Clubs don’t recruit them to hang in a list for 4 years and play 30-odd games do they. Is that your definition of success?

We are talking about Nash who has played 50 (only 22 wins mind you and we’ve gone backwards a fair bit in those 5 seasons) remaining in our midfield as the young players develop alongside him.

You’ve overlooked my key point. Those who have played long term and contributed for many seasons started and played in the one position only.

As for talking s**t - I’ll leave it to you to reflect on your comment.

Nah

Pearce Hanley played over a 150 games. Connor McKenna 80 and counting, Mark O'Connor just played in a flag. Enough of your shit talking there are more than 3 successful Irish players

 

[HedgeFund]

Pearce Hanley.

Fair cop.

I missed him, but he actually bolsters my argument.

He was a genuine rebounding HBF only. Never played forward or inside mid.

Brisbane (and GC) knew what he could do and kept it simple.

We haven’t done that with Nash.

 

[KermitJagger]

Fair cop.

I missed him, but he actually bolsters my argument.

He was a genuine rebounding HBF only. Never played forward or inside mid.

Brisbane (and GC) knew what he could do and kept it simple.

We haven’t done that with Nash.

We've had multiple coaches with different views on his position as a footballer. Mitchell played Nash as a midfielder in the VFL, he earned re-selection in that role and now responsible for the seniors Mitchell has continued to play him in the midfield when available. The only reason he was moved into other roles the season just gone is because we had no other genuine options to cover ruck with all of Reeves, Lynch and McEvoy all injured.

Would assume that Nash being signed for 2 additional years means he's at least somewhat part of our plans for the future if he continues to build on the good game sense he showed this season.

 

[HedgeFund]

We've had multiple coaches with different views on his position as a footballer. Mitchell played Nash as a midfielder in the VFL, he earned re-selection in that role and now responsible for the seniors Mitchell has continued to play him in the midfield when available. The only reason he was moved into other roles the season just gone is because we had no other genuine options to cover ruck with all of Reeves, Lynch and McEvoy all injured.

Would assume that Nash being signed for 2 additional years means he's at least somewhat part of our plans for the future if he continues to build on the good game sense he showed this season.

This is exactly my point.

The poor bloke learnt the game for the first 4 years on our list, then finds himself thrown all over the joint.

If we had simply kept him in a single position and let him grow into that role, we wouldn’t be in the position we are in with him now.

I’m not saying he won’t continue to improve and I’m not saying he isn’t in our best 22 (in fact if you look back my 1st Rd 2023 side has him in it).

I simply pointed out we hadn’t developed him as well as we could, and now we have just recruited a number of taller, bigger bodied mids - several of whom could well overtake him in the pecking order by 2024/25.

 

[KermitJagger]

This is exactly my point.

The poor bloke learnt the game for the first 4 years on our list, then find himself thrown all over the joint.

If we had simply kept him in a single position and let him grow into that role, we wouldn’t be in the position we are in with him now.

I’m not saying he won’t continue to improve and I’m not saying he isn’t in our best 22 (in fact I’d you look back my 1st Rd 2023 aide has him in it).

I simply pointed out we hadn’t developed him as well as we could, and now we have just recruited a number of taller, bigger bodied mids - several of whom could well overtake him in the pecking order by 2024/25.

Do you think experiencing different parts of the ground is unusual for an AFL player, or seriously negatively impacted his development? It's fairly common even for Australian draftees. Hell, on our current list alone we've got Impey, Koschitze, Sicily, Hardwick, CJ, Jeka, Morris and SMitchell who are all currently playing different positions than those they were drafted in. We've also got Day and Weddle who are going to be doing similar next season.

Your point about keeping him in one position doesn't make sense because we had no idea what his position would be.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Name me another Irish player who has managed 100 AFL games.

Clubs don’t recruit them to hang in a list for 4 years and play 30-odd games do they. Is that your definition of success?

We are talking about Nash who has played 50 (only 22 wins mind you and we’ve gone backwards a fair bit in those 5 seasons) remaining in our midfield as the young players develop alongside him.

You’ve overlooked my key point. Those who have played long term and contributed for many seasons started and played in the one position only.

As for talking s**t - I’ll leave it to you to reflect on your comment.

Nash has had one season in the middle.

 

[burger09]

I like Nash. I hope he continues to improve.

The disappointing part of his game is in the air.

Hes 197cm ! He should be out marking 185ers every game. It's almost pointless him being that tall. If he could float forward Cripps/Fyfe style he'd be a serious weapon. I just don't think he has that in him.
Interesting year for him.

 

[matey]

Like Nash provides a point of difference in the middle with his height, size, athleticism and loves the body contact from his rugby background. His skills have improved significantly and will get better. We don’t get bashed up in the middle anymore and he is one of the reasons. Definitely need to persevere with him. Remember we probably need 27 players that can step in in any given week to get through a season.

 

[mustang]

Angelo Lekkas is a manifestation of my Hawthorn fandom as a young kid.
I was 18 by the time our 08 flagged was won.

The idea of Lekkas being around for that premiership would be like the Dinosaurs walking with modern man.

Ben Dixon missing out by one year is already strange enough to think about.

Yeah I know he retired a few years before the 08 flag but I remember AC saying that he wanted him to continue when he retired because of a mini stroke not a head injury.

He may have retired in 05 before the flag but AC wanted him to help the kids with Vanderberg,Crawford,Dixon and Smith he would only been 32 in 08.

 

[Dewnior]

The forward six of Buddy, Ruff, Bruest, Jack, Poppy and the incredible Cyril, won’t be matched but I hope we can get close. That is what Premierships are made of.

I actually thought that forward line worked better with Hale in and Buddy out.

 

[JZedd]

This is what we badly need. Xfactor forwards. Forwards will be the focus of the next two Trades/Drafts periods. Remember Bruest has to be replaced.

The forward six of Buddy, Ruff, Bruest, Jack, Poppy and the incredible Cyril, won’t be matched but I hope we can get close. That is what Premierships are made of.

H

Similar thoughts to mine, my interest is in the third tall.

I did ask in another post the thoughts on Kossie and where his instincts are: either fwd or back. Going back a couple of years we were needing some height and weight in he fwd line, and Kossie showed a glint at the right time. Gut feel though is that he is a born defender, so not sure trying to manufacture a fwd version of him is going to bear fruit for our current needs ... Fast fwd two years and Sam is addressing the issue of being undersized across each line, especially now that it appears we will station a ruckman up fwd. That said - I don't think we can have a second 'non-natural fwd' down there. That is why I am sceptical around Kossie, and probably have more interest in Jeka and Green for the role of third tall at this stage.

I am also mindful that delivery into the fwd line will be a lot more precise with Amon, Ward, Frog (Richie Cunningham) and co. This is why I am thinking about Jeka and Green being able to naturally manufacture space. I feel the need to say that I felt sorry for Jeka back in the day where Clarko just had them bombing the ball in giving him little chance to show his ability on the lead. I'd like to see him given the chance to use his natural attributes under a more precise and aggressive game plan.

I also agree with CK that we have a raw finals list if we can get all the parts in the right order.

Excellent post. Jeka may push us into finals if he reaches his potential. Beautiful dual sided kicking too.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

I like Nash. I hope he continues to improve.

The disappointing part of his game is in the air.

Hes 197cm ! He should be out marking 185ers every game. It's almost pointless him being that tall. If he could float forward Cripps/Fyfe style he'd be a serious weapon. I just don't think he has that in him.
Interesting year for him.

That too has improved, took a few nice grabs late in the season.

 

[burner1]

This is exactly my point.

The poor bloke learnt the game for the first 4 years on our list, then find himself thrown all over the joint.

If we had simply kept him in a single position and let him grow into that role, we wouldn’t be in the position we are in with him now.

I’m not saying he won’t continue to improve and I’m not saying he isn’t in our best 22 (in fact I’d you look back my 1st Rd 2023 aide has him in it).

I simply pointed out we hadn’t developed him as well as we could, and now we have just recruited a number of taller, bigger bodied mids - several of whom could well overtake him in the pecking order by 2024/25.

They did try to make him a forward for a number of years in a row - and it didn’t work at all.

If I recall correctly Nash into middle wasn’t really a planned move. He was largely playing on a wing at BH and they chucked him into middle one game just to see what would happen for a half and he surprisingly showed enough to keep trying.

There’s no way he could be have been playing mid 4 years ago - would have completely floundered.

He’s always had the physical tools but it’s taken years for his game sense to improve.

 

[burner1]

I’m really hoping Jeka makes CHB his position.

Blanck has FB locked in.

Sicily and DGB are tall intercepting defenders (Frost as well). Or at least that’s their best position IMO.

He don’t have a legitimate CHB…yet. If Jeka can make it his, then that’s a massive bonus.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Is Blanck really locked in at FB? Was a very promising start but he has a way to go IMO and will get opposition spending more time working out his flaws. Is an interesting season of consolidation for 2023 - if he holds down spot for 2023 then he’s our guy.

If it’s not Blanck then we’re looking at Jeka - so thins out a bit.

It’s such an interesting 12 months ahead - so many largely unproven guys in the 22 that we’re hoping continue to improve and head towards being reliable a/b graders etc.

 

[H00t]

I actually thought that forward line worked better with Hale in and Buddy out.

Our forward line was much more potent with Buddy in. Even with the improvement from Gunston from 2012 to 2015.

Our defence was much improved though. And mentally we were a lot tougher. Overall we were a better team post buddy but our forward line was worse.

It was all about the improvement around the rest of the ground offsetting losing buddy.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

They did try to make him a forward for a number of years in a row - and it didn’t work at all.

If I recall correctly Nash into middle wasn’t really a planned move. He was largely playing on a wing at BH and they chucked him into middle one game just to see what would happen for a half and he surprisingly showed enough to keep trying.

There’s no way he could be have been playing mid 4 years ago - would have completely floundered.

He’s always had the physical tools but it’s taken years for his game sense to improve.

His have sense would've improved being played on all, his rugby background helped his hand and ball awareness . He knew how to get it.

 

[KermitJagger]

Our forward line was much more potent with Buddy in. Even with the improvement from Gunston from 2012 to 2015.

Our defence was much improved though. And mentally we were a lot tougher. Overall we were a better team post buddy but our forward line was worse.

It was all about the improvement around the rest of the ground offsetting losing buddy.

It wasn't really a more potent forward line. We were a better team from a points for perspective in 2012 and 2013 but so was the AFL in general, teams improved a lot defensively in the following years which dragged scoring down. In comparison to the rest of the league though, our scoring didn't regress as much as the AFL average. That would suggest our attack at least maintained the same potency.

 

[peetoo]

Nash training with the mids to clearly throw oppo scouts off when he lines up in the forward pocket round 1. Great planning by Sam.
Check mate Essendon

You nailed it. Unless a player is an exceptional consistent mis those with a second string to their bow will surely be in for the rotations.
Helps a young team last the season

Oppositions will clearly target jai, but if a second or third young mid is being bullied in the centre?

Meek would be ok at stoppages but you need options who can run too. Nash and maginness

Season may not end that way

 

[SunshineHawkCal]

Is Blanck really locked in at FB? Was a very promising start but he has a way to go IMO and will get opposition spending more time working out his flaws. Is an interesting season of consolidation for 2023 - if he holds down spot for 2023 then he’s our guy.

If it’s not Blanck then we’re looking at Jeka - so thins out a bit.

It’s such an interesting 12 months ahead - so many largely unproven guys in the 22 that we’re hoping continue to improve and head towards being reliable a/b graders etc.

Have you seen Blanck lately. He's put some size on, he's a lock.

 

[HedgeFund]

It’s such an interesting 12 months ahead - so many largely unproven guys in the 22 that we’re hoping continue to improve and head towards being reliable a/b graders etc.

Spot on.

I can’t agree with those on here who say Blanck is a lock, or Bramble, or Jeka, etc.

So many players on our list have played barely a season or two at AFL level.

I can’t recall a time in the past 40 years where we have had so few established, proven players. So it’s very much an open book for 2023. We could find plenty pop up and show a bit, but drop away after a while due to youth and lack of experience.

 

[HedgeFund]

Have you seen Blanck lately. He's put some size on, he's a lock.

So just because he is bigger means he demands a spot in the back 6? Off a total of 9 AFL games (when Frost was out injured)?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I reckon the only locks we have in the side, pending fitness of course, are:

Hardwick - ????? - ?????
Scrimshaw - Sicily - CJ

Meek - Newcombe - Ward
Amon - ????? - Day

Moore - ????? - MacDonald
Breust - Lewis - Wingard

Reeves/Lynch - ????? - ????? - ?????