List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Mutineer]

A straight swap of Shane McAdam for Brennan Cox (ex Woodville West Torrens boy) - wouldn't be bad for either side.
Adelaide needs to keep strengthening defence and Cox would certainly assist the young guys in Murray, Butts and co.
Fremantle would certainly look better in front of goal with McAdam in their forward line.

(Only concern here... the commentators would have to choose their words carefully having Butts and Cox in the same part of the ground).

A contracted well established 23 year old Key Position Defender/Swingman for a mercurial 27 year old small forward that has trouble staying on the park albeit very good when fit and firing?

Where do we sign?

 

[Mutineer]

As much as I’m a fan of Shane, Freo laughs and hangs up the phone on us there

How often are player swaps involved in trades?

And for Shane he's still 2,662 km from home if he was traded to Freo.

 

[Danger in Texas]

On the contrary, he is .....in his first year, some of the crows play was compared to the orange tsunami .....he had a more experienced team at that stage

He said in pressers early, he wanted to play an attacking, attractive style of footy .....he was also credited heavily with adding a harder edge to the GWS team, which got them to a Grand Final in 2019

You can have all the skill in your team, but without a Finals edge .....you end up with the Crows circa 2017

You rebuild the team in components of your play ......you can't train it all at once with kids
Some clubs teach offense first, some build off defense .....we're building off a contested style, a Finals style of play

Exactly how Paul Roos built SYD to a flag !!!

As the list gains more experience & fitness .....remembering with so many under 20-30 games, they're not all AFL fit yet ......a more offensive style of play will be next

This is year 3 of the rebuild .....on target

The main thing that worries me about our defensively focused gameplan is that it’ll engrain these habits into our younger players, to a point where it stifles their offensive development

Naturally smart footballers such as Soligo, Berry, Rachele, Parnell etc should be able to overcome this, but you can’t just put an defensive umbrella over a young side and expect the offensive side of things to come naturally. Look at Ned, for instance - has not shown much, if any offensive growth over the past year or so, after showing positive signs towards the back end of last season. Same with Jones

You can’t focus on everything at once, but you also can’t mostly neglect smart ball movement

 

[Danger in Texas]

How often are player swaps involved in trades?

And for Shane he's still 2,662 km from home if he was traded to Freo.

Either way it’s not worth talking about, the earliest we’ll be a chance of getting Cox (if we’re even a chance at all) would be when he’s a FA in 2024. Gives Butts and Murray two years to show their development and eventual wares

 

[s_wd6]

How often are player swaps involved in trades?

And for Shane he's still 2,662 km from home if he was traded to Freo.

But he'd be playing with his brother

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The main thing that worries me about our defensively focused gameplan is that it’ll engrain these habits into our younger players, to a point where it stifles their offensive development

Naturally smart footballers such as Soligo, Berry, Rachele, Parnell etc should be able to overcome this, but you can’t just put an defensive umbrella over a young side and expect the offensive side of things to come naturally. Look at Ned, for instance - has not shown much, if any offensive growth over the past year or so, after showing positive signs towards the back end of last season. Same with Jones

You can’t focus on everything at once, but you also can’t mostly neglect smart ball movement

Kids are raised and play all their junior careers, playing attacking football .....what you hear Coaches say most, is they need to teach draftee's the defensive side of footy

So DIT, the attacking style is already ingrained .....getting the balance right between defense and attack is what's being taught now

Sorry, I ommitted .....Roos also built MELB on the back of defense, when he took over as Coach of what was then a basket case .....I'd say MELB are a pretty attacking side now, wouldn't you ?

Problem is ....supporters hear all this, but still lack the patience of a rebuild ......"yeah, lets bottom out, get some talent ....but what do you mean ..we have to lose games ??"
Nah, that's unacceptable

 

[Mutineer]

But he'd be playing with his brother

Okay where do we sign Shano for Brennan Cox seems fair...

 

[George CantStandYa]

On the contrary, he is .....in his first year, some of the crows play was compared to the orange tsunami .....he had a more experienced team at that stage

He said in pressers early, he wanted to play an attacking, attractive style of footy .....he was also credited heavily with adding a harder edge to the GWS team, which got them to a Grand Final in 2019

You can have all the skill in your team, but without a Finals edge .....you end up with the Crows circa 2017

You rebuild the team in components of your play ......you can't train it all at once with kids
Some clubs teach offense first, some build off defense .....we're building off a contested style, a Finals style of play

Exactly how Paul Roos built SYD to a flag !!!

As the list gains more experience & fitness .....remembering with so many under 20-30 games, they're not all AFL fit yet ......a more offensive style of play will be next

This is year 3 of the rebuild .....on target

Part of his defensive play is pushing our small forwards up the ground, when we become more “attacking” what was the point? We haven’t taught defence if it’s a game plan which we then abandon.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Part of his defensive play is pushing our small forwards up the ground, when we become more “attacking” what was the point? We haven’t taught defence if it’s a game plan which we then abandon.

Gameplans are modified every 6-8 weeks of a season .....by all clubs

Gameplans are modified / tweaked during the PS every year ......during games, Coach's are playing chess; have a loose man or bring extra's up to the contest ....play your HF high, or deep

Players are conditioned to positional & tactical change .....or they are once they're experienced

 

[s_wd6]

Okay where do we sign Shano for Brennan Cox seems fair...

Think freo would have to thrown in a sweetener

 

[George CantStandYa]

Gameplans are modified every 6-8 weeks of a season .....by all clubs

Gameplans are modified / tweaked during the PS every year ......during games, Coach's are playing chess; have a loose man or bring extra's up to the contest ....play your HF high, or deep

Players are conditioned to positional & tactical change .....or they are once they're experienced

That doesn’t explain how we are building up our defence first with a young list. We’ve not taught them how to defend, in fact we are cheating, all we are doing is throwing extra numbers at the contest that will disappear once we supposedly change game plan and become attacking.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Kids are raised and play all their junior careers, playing attacking football .....what you hear Coaches say most, is they need to teach draftee's the defensive side of footy

So DIT, the attacking style is already ingrained .....getting the balance right between defense and attack is what's being taught now

Sorry, I ommitted .....Roos also built MELB on the back of defense, when he took over as Coach of what was then a basket case .....I'd say MELB are a pretty attacking side now, wouldn't you ?

Problem is ....supporters hear all this, but still lack the patience of a rebuild ......"yeah, lets bottom out, get some talent ....but what do you mean ..we have to lose games ??"
Nah, that's unacceptable

I definitely agree that defensive fundamentals must be taught. As you said, if you don’t have a good balance of those across your best 22 then it’ll be hard to compete in finals most of the time

That said, I’m just concerned that we don’t seem to have much focus at all on offensive flow this year - I’m not sure how easily we can get that going in the future. Even struggling sides like GWS, Essendon, Hawthorn etc seem to have some resemblance of clean ball movement

Re: the length of our rebuild - right now, I’m comfortable with the idea of us getting back to finals by 2025, at the earliest. Should be enough time to allow the guys we currently have showing promise to grow; re-stock on young, high-end talent that we whiffed on in 2015-19; as well as find some players from other clubs to fill any weak gaps

 

[ams4crows]

Think freo would have to thrown in a sweetener

Frederick please

 

[Danger in Texas]

Frederick please

Just re-signed I think

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Even struggling sides like GWS, Essendon, Hawthorn etc seem to have some resemblance of clean ball movement

And how are those sides going ? .....Hawthorn is playing very attacking footy, ESS getting canned because on the weekend they couldn't defend a kick-in .....GWS also playing attacking, of course, given who's coaching them

3 weeks in a row, the GWS Coach in the 4th Qtr has thrown the magnets in the air, and destroyed any chance of a successful result .....fact is GWS are not defensively minded enough

 

[jackster83]

And how are those sides going ? .....Hawthorn is playing very attacking footy, ESS getting canned because on the weekend they couldn't defend a kick-in .....GWS also playing attacking, of course, given who's coaching them

Yet all three wiped the floor with us.

 

[Danger in Texas]

And how are those sides going ? .....Hawthorn is playing very attacking footy, ESS getting canned because on the weekend they couldn't defend a kick-in .....GWS also playing attacking, of course, given who's coaching them

3 weeks in a row, the GWS Coach in the 4th Qtr has thrown the magnets in the air, and destroyed any chance of a successful result .....fact is GWS are not defensively minded enough

Fair points. All I’m hoping is that we start to see some resemblance of smart offensive movement soon, so that our young players can eventually get used to what our gameplan will look like once we hopefully rise up the ladder. Maybe we need better cattle in various areas of the ground in order to pull that off? (Edit: not maybe, definitely haha)

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Fair points. All I’m hoping is that we start to see some resemblance of smart offensive movement soon, so that our young players can eventually get used to what our gameplan will look like once we hopefully rise up the ladder. Maybe we need better cattle in various areas of the ground in order to pull that off? (Edit: not maybe, definitely haha)

Another PS into Thilthorpe and Fogarty

Hopefully Schoenberg & Pedlar pull their fingers out over the PS

Rachelle will be better year 2 .....had the confidence knocked out of him .....hopefully he can get the swagger back

It all hinges around our midfield ....they're the connectors

Of course, it's influenced by who we Draft & Trade ? ....that goes without saying

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yet all three wiped the floor with us.

All of GWS, ESS, and HAW, with a lot more experienced players .....I'd say, we're in front of HAW, ESS potentially treading water and being the "meh" side of the last 20 years ......GWS should be a top 4 side, with a good coach

 

[Mutineer]

All of GWS, ESS, and HAW, with a lot more experienced players .....I'd say, we're in front of HAW, ESS potentially treading water and being the "meh" side of the last 20 years ......GWS should be a top 4 side, with a good coach

Reckon you're underrating the Bombers list big time, they have some real quality youngsters.

Nikolas Cox
Archie Perkins
Jye Caldwell
Ben Hobbs
Zach Reid
Nick Martin
Harrison Jones
Nick Bryan
Massimo D'Ambrosio

Nice blend of youth there with plenty of talent.

 

[BunjiMac]

The main thing that worries me about our defensively focused gameplan is that it’ll engrain these habits into our younger players, to a point where it stifles their offensive development

Naturally smart footballers such as Soligo, Berry, Rachele, Parnell etc should be able to overcome this, but you can’t just put an defensive umbrella over a young side and expect the offensive side of things to come naturally. Look at Ned, for instance - has not shown much, if any offensive growth over the past year or so, after showing positive signs towards the back end of last season. Same with Jones

You can’t focus on everything at once, but you also can’t mostly neglect smart ball movement

The main thing that worries me about our defensive game plan is how atrociously bad we are at defence.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Reckon you're underrating the Bombers list big time, they have some real quality youngsters.

Nikolas Cox
Archie Perkins
Jye Caldwell
Ben Hobbs
Zach Reid
Nick Martin
Harrison Jones
Nick Bryan
Massimo D'Ambrosio

Nice blend of youth there with plenty of talent.

Yeah I could be ....ESS desperately need a big key DEF .....Zac Reid has a lot of weight to put on & has been injury prone thus far

They also need a KPF .....Jones the classic 3rd Tall

Bryan won't make the grade ....the bloke you've overlooked is Durham .....quality and hard at it

 

[Danger in Texas]

Yeah I could be ....ESS desperately need a big key DEF .....Zac Reid has a lot of weight to put on & has been injury prone thus far

They also need a KPF .....Jones the classic 3rd Tall

Bryan won't make the grade ....the bloke you've overlooked is Durham .....quality and hard at it

Strong disagree

 

[rabidcrow]

Is he a need? That means dropping Butts or Murray unless we plan on playing 3 talls.

Depends on how long we want to rebuild for. We desperately need a stabilising influence down back and both Murray and Butts are 3-4 years away from that. Stabilising meaning quality experience 120 games plus. Not ideal having two rookies trying to hold things together.


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[Mutineer]

Yeah I could be ....ESS desperately need a big key DEF .....Zac Reid has a lot of weight to put on & has been injury prone thus far

They also need a KPF .....Jones the classic 3rd Tall

Bryan won't make the grade ....the bloke you've overlooked is Durham .....quality and hard at it

How would we know a 20 year old ruck Nick Bryan won't make it without seeing him get a decent shot at AFL, when he's played he's been only used as a chop out ruck and spent time up forward where all the ball gets directed at two metre Peter or warming the bench, dominates the VFL rucks quite a few who are AFL listed.