List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[WaynesWorld19]

And how stupid do Nicks, Burns and van Berlo now look who have all run the line he's a required player yada yada yada not once, not twice, but numerous times including as late as last week?

Depends on what's been happening in the background .....it's patently obvious, Matts Management has been canvassing options for next year

The Club could have let the whole scenario work to a logical conclusion .....something's happened in the Crows inner sanctum, which has been the catalyst for the announcement

 

[Mutineer]

Depends on what's been happening in the background .....it's patently obvious, Matts Management has been canvassing options for next year

The Club could have let the whole scenario work to a logical conclusion .....something's happened in the Crows inner sanctum, which has been the catalyst for the announcement

Where did I miss the announcement, nothing on any of the club's media sites or their website?

 

[WeedsMullet84]

So I’m cool with this.

But again does it not tell us our list management team have NFI what they are doing.

We resigned crouch at the end of last year for two years, only to push him out basically two-thirds of the way through the following season.

Plenty around here thought we should be showing the door to crouch at the end of last year.

Really? There were ZERO suitors last year for Matt under FA. At that stage the medical guys probably thought if they could Rehab him then he might get back to decent form. Up until his injury he was tracking OK. Quick to forget his stats stack up with other mids held in higher esteem because they’re perceivably less vanilla. He’s always done a pretty good job with the grunt work.

I had no issue with us signing him on for no doubt low wages for 2 years. My only preference would have been to sign him on for 1 as he would have qualified for FA compensation this year anyway (same as last year)

If we have the cap space I’d have no issue covering his wages next year and flick him off to a team that needs a solid/serviceable inside mid, but who might have cap issues…. (GWS if they have a player exodus, Bulldogs if Dunkley leaves?) could cough up a useful pick

Posting this again. Something which I hope we’re using as trade leverage

Cash is king: How the salary cap itself became a crucial AFL trade asset

Cash is king: How the salary cap itself became a crucial AFL trade asset

www.foxsports.com.au

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[WaynesWorld19]

Where did I miss the announcement, nothing on any of the club's media sites or their website?

Did the media get a leak from Matt's Management ? .....they didn't make it up

 

[WeedsMullet84]

A month ago Matthew, you sat in front of us and said Matt Crouch was a required player going forward, what has changed? Is it because of the pressure from those that REALLY know about team selection and rebuilds, the guys on Big Footy?

Will they ask that?

Crouch is free to anyone that will have him, no one is sending us picks that we could use.

Not unless we’re happy to cover his wages next year…



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[Anzacpaul]

My latest playstation trade dream scenario:

View attachment 1457127

Still think it's unders for Rankine, but its also ideal.

Well it's definitely a dream, you got that part right. Also a work of fiction, so could be released on PlayStation

 

[Soggy2112]

The fundamental problem I have with it is this. He said when he started that the offence comes from the defence. Which means his focus is and always will be on defending because in his mind the game revolves around that. It's pressure, it's contest, it's defence. It's obviously how you stop teams scoring on you, but it's a huge part of how you score yourself.

So if we're not kicking goals his focus likely doesn't go "how can we score more? Do we add more firepower in the midfield/forward line?" etc it'll go "we need to defend better", which sounds like an oxymoron, but if you think the best path to offense is your defence it's where you'll go every time.

In our minds we go "We want to see Newchurch, he's got electric pace and could add a POD in our forward line to add some scoring power". The coaches go "we score from defending and if he's not doing defending consistently then we can't play him". And again, if your focus is always defence first you're going to stifle a lot of offensively minded players. Like listen to Godden when Newchurch (not to make it all about him) kicked 4.3 and had 20 touches. Everything had a negative tone to it because he was doing things they didn't value, even though he played well, scored goals, handed a few out they couldn't enjoy it for what it was. McHenry, Murphy, they do the fundamentals he wants, so they get picked, even though they can't score all that much themselves they hit his basic football beliefs and it's just a matter of time until that defense starts leading to goals.

It depends what he means about offence coming from defence. If the plan is to build a game plan around winning contested ball and clearances, gaining territory and then defending well to retain the ball in our front half and have repeat entries then that makes sense (we lead the competition in tackles inside 50). If you build that as your base, then the ball movement and attacking side can come later as the players develop and gel together.

As I mentioned though, and I agree with you, selection is an issue, we need to be willing to risk taking a step back to go two steps forward. At the moment we aren’t, and it’s hurting guys like Newchurch.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Crouch told to go find a new team.

Thought Nicks said he'd told Matt he was a required player for 2023 only a few weeks ago? Club doesn't know it's mouth from its back hole.

Adelaide coach Matthew Nicks has told Matt Crouch he wants the club champion to remain at the Crows next season after earning an AFL recall.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Of course Club's would be wary giving a player a longer contract who hadn't played a game for 12 months after going under the knife twice with his pesky groins .....bit different now that he's back playing and still racking up the numbers....dumb by the club whatever way you look at it.

Hope his son/daughter don't turn out to be fine footballers because this type of treatment won't help when a player's been a great team man, a club champion and leadership member.

Yeah because we should make serious list management decisions based on the potential father son implications? Hahaha

Crouch had no other interest on the Free Agency market, and we gave him a 2 year deal coming off what appeared to be a fairly debilitating injury. No doubt he’s upset, but he hasn’t set the world on fire since coming back, and the there’s a few other players in front of him as lock inside mids.

The ‘Matt Crouch is furious’ line screams of serious mayo being poured on by media…


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[jackster83]

It makes the decision to recall Crouch two weeks ago look even stupider.

 

[Sanders]

So effectively Nicks and co have just telegraphed to other clubs he's available under the odds...dumb dumb dumb if that's the case.

There are no odds. If Crouch’s manager can find a taker the requisite trade won’t trouble anyone too much

 

[Sanders]

Didn't we try and shop him around but no one was interested? If we let him walk to another club this board would've blown up. Not sure his value has really changed, maybe another club has already said they are keen and he needs some convincing to move away from Adelaide?

He was a free agent.

 

[Crow till I die]

Thought Nicks said he'd told Matt he was a required player for 2023 only a few weeks ago? Club doesn't know it's mouth from its back hole.

2 things can be true at the same time. Nicks says he wants him for 2023 - thats ok as he is contracted. He also says he wont be offered another contract - thats ok as he has a year to run but can look around now

 

[WetCrow1991]

Why did we offer him another farking contract then ffs. He was COOKED

 

[Thetrader15]

And how stupid do Nicks, Burns and van Berlo now look who have all run the line he's a required player yada yada yada not once, not twice, but numerous times including as late as last week?

Any way you slice it those twits in charge have handled it poorly....and it's not the first time..

How would you have played it?

 

[Mutineer]

How would you have played it?

My answer to that is why re-sign him if 12 months down the track he's not a required player despite as late as a fortnight ago ot therabouts according to Nicks he was very much a required player....deplorable list management .

 

[rabidcrow]

You couldn't possibly have picked a worse club for your scenario...

With his partner Elly expecting their 1st child it will be a Melbourne club, or maybe Port as he's very settled in Adelaide.

Plus GWS still have Callaghan, Stone, Hamilton to fit in to their midfield. Don’t see a need for Matt regardless of the state


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[Soggy2112]

Of course Club's would be wary giving a player a longer contract who hadn't played a game for 12 months after going under the knife twice with his pesky groins .....bit different now that he's back playing and still racking up the numbers....dumb by the club whatever way you look at it.

Hope his son/daughter don't turn out to be fine footballers because this type of treatment won't help when a player's been a great team man, a club champion and leadership member.

It sounds like Nicks told Crouch that he isn’t a part of our future, and that he probably needs to look for a trade. Is that not better for both parties? We get some value out of him, instead of losing him to free agency, and he doesn’t have to spend a season playing 2s. Understandably if he wants to stay that would be disappointing for him, but that is hardly poor treatment.

If Matt thinks his performance warrants selection than he is kidding himself. His contested possession rate has dropped and his tackle numbers are average. He has done nothing to warrant selection as an inside midfielder ahead of Laird, Keays and Berry. For a guy who wins most of his ball from uncontested possession, his kick to handball ratio, score involvements and metres gained are woeful. You’ve only got to look back at the Hawthorn game to wonder where his head is at. He’s been dropped, despite high possession numbers, gets a recall and what does he do? Has 10 kicks to 18 handballs and barely 100 metres gained, showed very little desire to kick the ball, and very little desire to move it forward. If I’m being harsh, he looked like he was just trying to fill up the stat sheet.

 

[Mutineer]

Plus GWS still have Callaghan, Stone, Hamilton to fit in to their midfield. Don’t see a need for Matt regardless of the state


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Not sure Hamilton and Stone are going to play their best footy in the midfield, Hamilton I like as a running defender with his endurance and penetrating kick and Stone more likey as a forward I think?

 

[Mutineer]

It sounds like Nicks told Crouch that he isn’t a part of our future, and that he probably needs to look for a trade. Is that not better for both parties? We get some value out of him, instead of losing him to free agency, and he doesn’t have to spend a season playing 2s. Understandably if he wants to stay that would be disappointing for him, but that is hardly poor treatment.

If Matt thinks his performance warrants selection than he is kidding himself. His contested possession rate has dropped and his tackle numbers are average. He has done nothing to warrant selection as an inside midfielder ahead of Laird, Keays and Berry. For a guy who wins most of his ball from uncontested possession, his kick to handball ratio, score involvements and metres gained are woeful. You’ve only got to look back at the Hawthorn game to wonder where his head is at. He’s been dropped, despite high possession numbers, gets a recall and what does he do? Has 10 kicks to 18 handballs and barely 100 metres gained, showed very little desire to kick the ball, and very little desire to move it forward. If I’m being harsh, he looked like he was just trying to fill up the stat sheet.

You take Laird out of the midfield and Matt's contested numbers would rise surely you can see that Laird is now the designated 1st possession mid our rucks hit too.

 

[SellarStardom]

What's the thoughts on Will Gould? Off contract at season end and can not move past McCartin

 

[dylan123]

Why did we offer him another farking contract then ffs. He was COOKED

Think the 2 year deal would have been pretty friendly for us given what he would have commanded a couple of seasons ago. No real issues with that and seeing if he could bounce back but he hasn't so as long as we prioritise others ahead of him then I'm fine with him as depth. If someone offers to take him off our hands then that's fine too.

 

[Big Crow]

the Dees have had one in the last few years too (2019 when they came 17th after coming 5th the year before as a team on the up).. threw in the towel and completely layed over as soon as it became clear they werent making the finals.

blatant tanking even after they were busted for doing so not even a decade earlier..

its why I hope we get Goody to come back and coach the crows when he’s done at the Dees.. he’s definitely a bit of a dodgy bastard who does all he can to bend the rules in his team/clubs favour.

you need to be ruthless in sport.. cheat, lie, steal, scam.. do all you can to win, just dont get caught!

we need some smart, ruthless, unscrupulous types to come in and turn this nanny do-gooder club of softcocks upside down. we’ll never win a flag until we do.

Wouldn’t get away with it at the Crows. Draft sanctions aplenty.

 

[Soggy2112]

You take Laird out of the midfield and Matt's contested numbers would rise surely you can see that Laird is now the designated 1st possession mid our rucks hit too.

It’s not the sheer numbers that are the concern for me, it’s the contested possession rate that worries me.

Laird wins 44.8% of his possessions contested.

Crouch at his peak in 2017 was operating at 40.5%, that’s dropped to 33.9%.

Crouch is averaging 4 tackles per game, Laird is at 8.1.

If you’re argument is that Matt would be better if he was the number one guy, how do you explain Keays or Berry?

I think a fair comparison to Matt is Jarryd Lyons, like Matt, he has someone ahead of him in the pecking order (Neale) after being the number one guy for much of last year, like Matt he’s relatively slow, and like Matt he isn’t blessed with a great kick.

Yet he has a contested possession rate of 44.7, he kicks more than he handballs, his clearance numbers are elite he averages 120 more metres gained despite having 6 less disposals on average and he tackles more.

It’s clear that Matt’s skill set is no longer compatible with our team, he isn’t doing enough grunt work to justify a place as an inside mid, and he certainly doesn’t have the skills or the mindset to be an outside mid. I still think he’s a good footballer and I hope he finds a team that can use him well. But he’s now been dropped 4 times by Nicks and he hasn’t addressed these glaring issues, so it’s clear his time with us has come to an end.

My answer to that is why re-sign him if 12 months down the track he's not a required player despite as late as a fortnight ago ot therabouts according to Nicks he was very much a required player....deplorable list management .

We offered a relatively cheap deal to a former All-Australian in the hope he could get fit and be a valuable contributor, instead of losing him to FA for nothing. It hasn’t worked out, so now we’ll look to see if another club can make use of his talents, and we should get a pick for it, that’s hardly deplorable list management. He was picked in round one and remained when Laird returned so clearly the club thought he was best 22. And it’s certainly not poor treatment of Matt, he was a free agent, if a better deal was available to him he could’ve taken it.

The only way it’s deplorable is if it was not communicated to Matt what Nicks needed from him on field, that may be the case but we’re yet to hear anything about that.

 

[WetCrow1991]

The club seems to like making decisions based on false hope instead of data and reality.