List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[buttons91]

Because Luke Edwards has been tearing it up for WC!

All the others were passed by every other club multiple times and taken as rookies. Tells you all you need to know.

I'd be open to nominating Michalanney and taking him as a rookie seeing as we should have plenty of rookie spots.

Michalanney will be gone 2nd round. He’s not going to make it to the rookie list. Draft isn’t that strong this year. I hope our blue boys get him.

 

[Ramify]

We won't be making the 8 next year - but the core of the team which will get us there (probably in 2025) is already on our list. They just need time to develop.

So aim high you reckon?

If that's the promise, I say we get them to develop on another teams list.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Turning down Michalanney is a bit disappointing though. If he develops into a good player, we are going to have to justify keeping dead wood rather than paying them out and creating a list spot.

Has this been confirmed by the club or just rumours?

 

[Mego Red]

I don't think it's down to list spots, we could make the room if we saw him as a priority. The fact we may not be means that we either won't have a pick where he's projecting to go and/or we don't see the value in moving what we need to do to get into that position.

Only time will tell on whether that's a good move or not. Hamish is hit and miss enough that I can't say either way if I'd agree with that potential assessment or not.

The thing is, we don't have the list spots currently. They probably can't guarantee him anything until we know we can actually trade players like Sholl and Crouch, who there may not be any demand for.

 

[Mego Red]

I’ll be absolutely annoyed if we don’t pick up Michalenney as it’s essentially a free hit.

Get rid of some of the deadwood such as Davis, McPherson, Crouch , Rowe and Turner.

Why the hell does getting rid of rookies like Davis and Turner help??

They'll be trying to trade Crouch, but you need someone to take him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Has this been confirmed by the club or just rumours?

Complete rumour ....take it with a grain of salt

 

[rabidcrow]

I’ll be absolutely annoyed if we don’t pick up Michalenney as it’s essentially a free hit.

Get rid of some of the deadwood such as Davis, McPherson, Crouch , Rowe and Turner.

Is it really a free hit. I might be wrong but assuming he goes at pick 30 - we have to stump up the equivalent of pick 36?

The discount advantage only really works at the higher end doesn’t it?

So would only pick him if he were a need


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Is it really a free hit. I might be wrong but assuming he goes at pick 30 - we have to stump up the equivalent of pick 36?

The discount advantage only really works at the higher end doesn’t it?

So would only pick him if he were a need


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Pick 40. But we could do this with 2 picks in the 50’s

 

[Scorpus]

Because Luke Edwards has been tearing it up for WC!

All the others were passed by every other club multiple times and taken as rookies. Tells you all you need to know.

I'd be open to nominating Michalanney and taking him as a rookie seeing as we should have plenty of rookie spots.

Luke Edwards has at least played AFL, unlike the four guys we took.

Maybe instead of taking the guys that every other club passes on multiple times, we should focus on the players with interest from other clubs

 

[Mutineer]

I’ll be absolutely annoyed if we don’t pick up Michalenney as it’s essentially a free hit.

Get rid of some of the deadwood such as Davis, McPherson, Crouch , Rowe and Turner.

Not really, and far from it if a bid comes in way earlier than the recruiting team value him at.

 

[GreyCrow]

Why the hell does getting rid of rookies like Davis and Turner help??

They'll be trying to trade Crouch, but you need someone to take him.

6 years on list

Still a rookie

 

[DJ75]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

36

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

30

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

,
Marcus Adams

24

Marcus Adams

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

240.5

4star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

57.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

6.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

235.8

4star

,
Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

 

[Rags_118]

Pick 40. But we could do this with 2 picks in the 50’s

Is it really a free hit. I might be wrong but assuming he goes at pick 30 - we have to stump up the equivalent of pick 36?

The discount advantage only really works at the higher end doesn’t it?

So would only pick him if he were a need

That’s not quite right. The 20% discount only applies for Picks 1-18 in the draft. Thereafter the F-S Discount is a flat 197 points (equivalent to pick 18 less 20%).

Therefore if Michalanney was bid on at pick 30 (629 pts) and we matched it would cost us 432 points (approx pick 40).

If he was bid on at Pick 40, it would cost us Pick 53. If bid on at Pick 50 it would cost us Pick 67. We can also go into deficit with points coming off our 2nd/3rd rounder next year.

Nominating Max would also likely discourage other teams from selecting Max. They wouldn’t put much time into him and he would likely slip to later in the draft than his natural position …. thereby increasing the Crows discount.

If Max is genuinely good enough for a mid 2nd/early 3rd then we’d be mugs not to nominate him and likely grab him. He meets a position of need for us, albeit not our greatest needs.

 

[1990crow]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron
Isaac Smith
Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron,
Marcus Adams,
Jarryd Lyons and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

I think we need to isolate the current list management into post 2020.

2020 - Hately, Hinge
2021 - Dawson
2022 - Rankine
2023 - JHF?
2024 - ??

Come 2025 we could have some serious A grade talent from other clubs at ours which we didn't really get in 2015-2017.
And success breeds success. It's up to us to improve, be seen as a destination club, and win enough that other players think that looks like something they want to be a part of.

 

[Vader]

6 years on list

Still a rookie

He was moved to the rookie list, along with David Mackay, 2 years ago - when list sizes were reduced due to COVID. Prior to that he was on the senior list.

 

[MRB37]

I think we need to isolate the current list management into post 2020.

2020 - Hately, Hinge
2021 - Dawson
2022 - Rankine
2023 - JHF?
2024 - ??

Come 2025 we could have some serious A grade talent from other clubs at ours which we didn't really get in 2015-2017.
And success breeds success. It's up to us to improve, be seen as a destination club, and win enough that other players think that looks like something they want to be a part of.

Part of the "refresh" if you will of the club post review seems to have been built around our list management recruitment strategies. We used to build heavily through the draft and recruit from other clubs around the fringes (your Lynch, Seedsman, Jenkins, Hampton types who were pushed out or couldnt break into their current team). There's been a clear switch to A. target best 22 SA born players and B. pay them at or above market rates to get them to come. I don't think previously we ever put money up to bring guys straight in from other clubs, the cash was reserved for those who proved their loyalty.

Matt Rendell was on the radio yesterday saying how every year he used to be calling the SA players to see if they wanted to come home and could barely get a response. We got fringe guys, but couldn't nail anyone who was a clear best 22. Since then we got Dawson and now Rankine, we're not a "destination club" by any stretch yet, but it's getting better.

 

[Vader]

If Max is genuinely good enough for a mid 2nd/early 3rd then we’d be mugs not to nominate him and likely grab him. He meets a position of need for us, albeit not our greatest needs.

Not if we intend to be finished in the draft before his name is called.

 

[1990crow]

Part of the "refresh" if you will of the club post review seems to have been built around our list management recruitment strategies. We used to build heavily through the draft and recruit from other clubs around the fringes (your Lynch, Seedsman, Jenkins, Hampton types who were pushed out or couldnt break into their current team). There's been a clear switch to A. target best 22 SA born players and B. pay them at or above market rates to get them to come. I don't think previously we ever put money up to bring guys straight in from other clubs, the cash was reserved for those who proved their loyalty.

Matt Rendell was on the radio yesterday saying how every year he used to be calling the SA players to see if they wanted to come home and could barely get a response. We got fringe guys, but couldn't nail anyone who was a clear best 22. Since then we got Dawson and now Rankine, we're not a "destination club" by any stretch yet, but it's getting better.

Add JHF next year and maybe Brennan Cox would have to make us look like one.
Then in 2025 there would be a free agent eyeing us off.

 

[Vader]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron
Isaac Smith
Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron,
Marcus Adams,
Jarryd Lyons and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

One of these lists is not like the other.

Geelong are blatantly cheating the salary cap. Many of their recruits were brought in at their absolute prime. Stengle cost them next to nothing, but players like Dangerfield & Cameron were recruited at their peak, and should have been (and still should be) paid an absolute motza.

In contrast, Neale is the only real A-grader that Brisbane brought in at their absolute prime (Dunkley will be the 2nd in this class). Birchall & Hodge went there to play out their last couple of seasons, but were well beyond their prime before they arrived. Gunston is another in the same mold. Cameron went there just before he broke out to become the superstar he is now. Lyons was nothing particularly special at Adelaide or Gold Coast, and didn't cost them a lot to recruit.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I wonder if we are considering moving Andrew McPherson

36

Andrew Mcpherson

Age

25

Ht

187cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

3star

MG

118.5

2star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

2star

MG

118.5

2star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.5

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.5

4star

MG

118.5

2star

on. He's a good player I rate but with lots of injury issues. Cant see him holding his place next season. He nay have some value if injury free.

 

[Vader]

I wonder if we are considering moving Andrew McPherson on. He's a good player I rate but with lots of injury issues. Cant see him holding his place next season. He nay have some value if injury free.

He's shaping up as a delist for next year. I can't see him being delisted this year, nor can I see any other clubs being interested in a trade.

 

[Jetafl]

Add JHF next year and maybe Brennan Cox would have to make us look like one.

Still a big IF with JHF I would hardly say Cox makes us look like a destination club in comparison to the Cats who have brought in plenty of elite talent at the players peak but agreed just bringing in Dawson and Rankine and the last 2 seasons is a leap forward compered to our recent history.

 

[jo172]

I'm sitting back and watching clubs at the top end of the ladder, such as Geelong and Brisbane, pick up elite free agents and top end young talent, and it has occurred to me that either everyone else is cheating the salary cap like crazy, or we have been one of the worst run clubs list management wise in the AFL.

When we were at the top end, playing finals and hoping to win a premiership, we managed to recruit Betts. Then somehow managed to give up 2 first round picks for a clearly past his best Gibbs.

Imagine if we had been able to add players of the calibre of the following:

Geelong
Blicavs
Stanley
Dangerfield
Tuohy
Jeremy Cameron
Isaac Smith
Stengle

Brisbane
Birchall,
Hodge,
Lachie Neale,
Joe Daniher,
Charlie Cameron,
Marcus Adams,
Jarryd Lyons and now
Dunkley and Gunston.

We really do suck.

The irony is that we were ok at it for a while.

2017 Grand Final Side had

Jenkins
Lynch
Betts
Jacobs
Seedsman

The skill we had in identifying players on the outer at other clubs (particularly in respect of Jenkins and Lynch) to get them to top 10 best and fairest/AA Squad of 40 was a huge competitive advantage that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

And when we do find one, we Stengle it.

 

[maxlilly]

I wonder if we are considering moving Andrew McPherson on. He's a good player I rate but with lots of injury issues. Cant see him holding his place next season. He nay have some value if injury free.

That's why I find it strange we don't appear to have any interest in Michalanney, he seems a more likely type compared to McPherson

 

[Carmo]

The irony is that we were ok at it for a while.

2017 Grand Final Side had

Jenkins
Lynch
Betts
Jacobs
Seedsman

The skill we had in identifying players on the outer at other clubs (particularly in respect of Jenkins and Lynch) to get them to top 10 best and fairest/AA Squad of 40 was a huge competitive advantage that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

And when we do find one, we Stengle it.

Hinge and Keays are going alright.